Games that are written as well as PST?

restless · Post by **restless** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:03 pm

Hello, I played through PST just recently. The writing was superb and it was intellectually and philosophically engaging. Much of the gameplay was terrible, but that's alright, as I played it more like a book than anything else. Are there any games out there that comes close to the level of writing and storytelling in PST? New-age RPG's all tend to leave too much to the graphics, and the dialogue is simple to appeal to a wider audience.

I don't particularly care about genre.

Thanks!

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:17 pm

You might want to check out [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/planescape-torment-19/after-planescape-torment-116476.html"]this recent topic[/url], where we cover similar games.

Mostly, though, you won't find a game that is the equal to PS:T in terms of quality of writing. You've played the be-all, end-all of well written CRPGs. And most of the forum members here will agree with me.

However, there are other games that you could give a shot. Have you played any of the Baldur's Gate series? The Fallout series?

restless · Post by **restless** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:54 pm

Nightmare wrote:You might want to check out [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/planescape-torment-19/after-planescape-torment-116476.html"]this recent topic[/url], where we cover similar games.

Mostly, though, you won't find a game that is the equal to PS:T in terms of quality of writing. You've played the be-all, end-all of well written CRPGs. And most of the forum members here will agree with me.

However, there are other games that you could give a shot. Have you played any of the Baldur's Gate series? The Fallout series?

Yeah. I've played those games(except FO2, which i'm struggling to get into). BG2 is the only one that really compares in terms of quality, but for different reasons than quality of writing and plot. Games I play now, especially RPG's, just seem bland and stupid, just like they say in the thread you linked. Even DA:O which I can tell right away is a good game, just fails to excite me.

I was kind of hoping that there'd be games out there that sucks you in, that is written so well that it's no longer about the characters quest, but actually becomes YOUR quest. PST is the only game that taught me a lot about myself while playing. Compared to that, even the most cleverly designed quests become dull and boring.

quietdisdain · Post by **quietdisdain** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:19 pm

As it's been said before, pretty much nothing compares with Torment, but a few games I've played have captured my imagination. I've mentioned these games across other topics in other forums, but I'll mention them again:

Knights of the Old Republic- You've probably played this one already, but it's got a very decent story and does a good job of drawing you into the world. The 2nd one, however, was rushed and isn't as good.

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines- Excellent voice acting, very decent story, awesome setting, but it's a very buggy game. There are some patches out there that make it better. It's also got good replay value. Don't play as a Malkavian on your first play-through though, as it will confuse the hell out of you.

Mass Effect- Good story, classic Bioware stuff. Not as good as the Baldur's Gate series, IMO, but better than Dragon Age. And the 2nd one comes out soon!

Assassin's Creed I/II- This may be a point of contention with some people, but I was absolutely drawn in by the story of these games. To be sure, these are NOT RPGs and the first one is definitely a bit repetitive. As the story unfolds, however, you'll be left wanting more. I can't wait for the third.

Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth- This survival horror game is also buggy, can be downright frustrating, and the voice acting of the narrator is irritating. That being said, there's something about it- and maybe the Cthulhu mythos in general that is captivating. Awesome atmosphere and leaves an impression.

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey- Out of all of the ones I've mentioned so far, this one has come the closest to Torment, and I'm not even sure why. I didn't even play the original Longest Journey game, but you don't need to. Dreamfall manages to meld atmosphere, music, characters, and mystery to create a perfect storm of emotion that you crave in games. This is NOT an RPG- it is an adventure game more than anything else, with some RPG elements, very light combat, etc. But it is well worth it in my opinion.

holeraw · Post by **holeraw** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:36 pm

For story alone -plot, setting, writting etc.- I would recommend the Witcher (enhanced edition,as I understand it's translation was horrid before that). It's not as 'open' as PS:T and the plot didn't impress me that much at first, but the setting is superb and when everything falls into place it's pretty spectacular. (+ Overall a great game I think - one of my latest personal 'favorite games ever')

Other than that and the ones already mentioned, if you're looking for good story in a game you probably have to look at adventures.

SupaCat · Post by **SupaCat** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:11 pm

quietdisdain wrote: Knights of the Old Republic- You've probably played this one already, but it's got a very decent story and does a good job of drawing you into the world. The 2nd one, however, was rushed and isn't as good.

I actually think the second one is better. An actually pretty good story, your skills matter, not as predictable as the first one.
There is a lot of content missing, but it is still really enjoyable AND I think there is a mod that adds some of the content back into the game (I've not tested it myself though).
I recommend it.

And Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the underdark. Don't bother with the original, but hotu is togheter with the expansion that came before it (don't remember the name) really worth buying. Nice story, great ending, pretty decent NPC's, a lot of possibilities ...

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:01 pm

The various games being mentioned here are all good RPGs, which is why they've been recommended. None of them comes remotely near PS:T in terms of being, as you put it, "philosophically and intellectually engaging." That wasn't their purpose, nor their market. Don't try these titles with that in mind. You'll be disappointed.

There simply isn't another game where an attempt was made to create an RPG for a thinking, feeling adult. There are many good teen RPGs out there, and quite a few pre-teen (especially of late), but...in all honesty, that's it.

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:06 am

Torment was one of a kind. I agree with fable, you're not likely to find an equal amongst todays crowd. But some of the games mentioned do try to approach the same lvl of story telling.

The Witcher and Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines both have great story and voice acting. Both are a little on the dark side.

Arcanum would be another one I recommend. Although, the dialogues are not quiet as deep. But it's a great RPG game, and has great music (IMHO).

I liked the first expansion to NWN2. Titled Mask of the Betrayer. Pretty deep story, but feels a bit rushed towards the end.

But none of those games approach the same depth as Planescape: Torment did.

Vhailor · Post by **Vhailor** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:32 pm

I just very recently installed Arcanum for a second attempt. (I tried playing it a few years ago and didn't get very far)

My thoughts on it so far are that it has a very interesting character development system implemented into it but the story itself is, so far, not very engaging. I guess at this point I would recommend it if you really enjoy the character development aspect (in a sort of "technical" way, not like an emotional way) of RPG's.. (I actually think someone else basically said the same thing about the game in another topic, related to this one, on this forum... but oh well)

willsanders84 · Post by **willsanders84** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:58 pm

Interesting. Another soul seeks to fill the chasm Ps:T has created. You chose not to change the nature of your computer game love, which is something I perhaps should have done. Instead, like you, I've been looking for something that matches the depth of Ps:T. No luck, I'm afraid friend. Some good comments and recommendations so far.

A couple of things. I, also, couldn't get into Fallout 2. It didn't have a storyline, or, rather, it had the same storyline as the first. Except it was no longer original, or treated as such with due care and attention. Like Fallout tactics. Erg. Never even bothered.

I've just reached exactly where I want to be on Arcanum, and for those who have played it, you'll know what I mean. Lvl 25 female elf, magical apt 80ish, Dog, Sogg Mead, Gar, Raven, Z'an A'lurin, Torian Kel. I think I just dumped Virgil. Everything's cushty, I've gathered everyone I want to haul around with me. Can't fault the game, amazing attention to detail, perfect character development, good dialogue. Except, I just don't want to play it anymore. I don't care what happens. I tried to play it like Ps:T, just to follow the story, and forget about going after that guy's cool sword, or accepting the quest to steal magical armour from some chest. Doing what I'd do. I started with a male character. It soon became obvious that although the pretense was infinately topical, the story well paced, the characters varied, it just didn't mean anything to me. Nobody stopped me and asked me the kind of questions I'd expect from Dakkon. The kind of questions that make you think. So I can't play it anymore. It's playing for the sake of playing, and I'm not interested in wasting my time.

The first Fallout made me think, or rather, it made me play because I wanted to know what happened. The game play was just a means to an end, and done so well that it was enjoyable, unnoticable. The end of that game I found emotional, and few games can do that.

One of the few other games that made me think was (and I'm sure you've played it) Deus Ex. Again, it was a means to an end, and the gameplay sublime and seamless. I loved that I didn't have to kill a soul if I didn't want to. When I reached the end, I had to turn it off, and think long and hard about what choice I'd make. All that effort, all those memories, the people I'd met, had to churn in my memory to help me make the decision, a day or so later. I'd certainly recommend that, but you MUST have played it.

Finally, and this is a bit out there, and I suspect everyone else on these forums will groan as I mention it because I have so many times; Little Big Adventure by Adeline flys straigt into my top five games because it's so utterly charming. You're transported to somewhere beautiful, but under threat. The responsibility makes you play the game because the people you're saving are so desperately innocent and lovable. It's a very, very good game in my opinion, and it has changed me in that it adds to my image of a perfect world.

Aside from those my friend, you'll be hard pressed. Try some books, can't beat a good book. Games now are made for little kids and crack addicts, so they can gorp at graphics and indulge in violence.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:38 am

Aye, a difficult task to be sure. I cannot help you, but I offer to come half way with one solution. Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 does not have an amazing story. It is not bad, but it is not written particularly well either. I think the story still beats its predecessor, but people have widely different opinions on that due to the buggy nature of the game (though that issue is currently being [url="http://www.deadlystream.com/forumdisplay.php?f=123"]patched[/url])

Instead, I propose you play this game solely for the written dialogue of one character, Kreia. I'll need to ask someone who more thoroughly played both games to learn how she compares to Dakkon, but I suspect she alone elevates the game to the realm of games you might consider enjoyable after finishing PST. She adds considerable depth to a meek story, so I just keep her in my party at all times. Her motivations for turtoring the player are not black or white or even grey. They are entirely hers alone.

She actually made me forget it was a typical Star Wars game I was playing. Just something with lightsabres.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:25 am

Instead, I propose you play this game solely for the written dialogue of one character, Kreia. I'll need to ask someone who more thoroughly played both games to learn how she compares to Dakkon...

Good catch. Kreia was written by Chris Avellone, the lead designer of PS:T. I don't know if he created Dakkon or not, but he was responsible for Ravel. The style of writing and what we might call the "spiritual relationship" of the two characters shows that.

chaindrop · Post by **chaindrop** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:23 pm

I have also just recently finished Torment. Really loved the game as a whole, although I felt the ending a bit unfinished. I've got to say the game really felt like an an adventure game rather than a crpg. Here are some games (mostly adventure) which are quite immersive, and are very nicely written.
Grim Fandango - Loved the humor, plot and setting.
Gabriel Knight series - I think this one really stands above most adventure games. It's got an occult setting, the first deals with voodoo, second with werewolves, and third vampires.
The Longest Journey - As someone has suggested already

. And your sidekick sounds and acts a lot like Morte. The sequel was pretty good as well, although the ending was pretty abrupt.
Psychonauts - This is a platformer, but feels like a mashup of adventure, rpg, and platforming. Great dialogue, excellent level design and characters.

turing.test · Post by **turing.test** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:31 am

I agree with everyone here, you won't find anything that compares to PS:T. One of a kind.

quietdisdain wrote:Dreamfall: The Longest Journey- Out of all of the ones I've mentioned so far, this one has come the closest to Torment, and I'm not even sure why. I didn't even play the original Longest Journey game, but you don't need to. Dreamfall manages to meld atmosphere, music, characters, and mystery to create a perfect storm of emotion that you crave in games. This is NOT an RPG- it is an adventure game more than anything else, with some RPG elements, very light combat, etc. But it is well worth it in my opinion.

The original was far better. It was a pure adventure game unfettered by the pseudo-action mechanics of the sequel and the writing was on par with PS:T in scope, if not quite in quality. It is on my top 5 games list.

notquitethere · Post by **notquitethere** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:01 am

You may not find another crpg on the same level as Planescape, but there are other games with high-quality writing.

There are adventure games beyond those that have been already mentioned that are well written, engaging and not aimed at teenagers.

Discworld Noir comes to mind- a clever detective game set in Terry Pratchett's Discworld. One of the things that sets it apart is that most of the problems in the game are solved with in-game notepad in which clues can be examined and compared with other clues. It also hits all the right keys for atmosphere and dialogue. (The other two discworld games are fun, but more typical item-find-and-manipulation adventure games)

Grim Fandango is of course very good, but some of the older LucasArts games are worth playing. As well as stuff like Monkey Island, Sam and Max and Day of the Tentacle (all good but silly), there is the emotionally involving biker game Full Throttle, and more importantly, The Dig.

The Dig is pretty much the only serious lucasarts adventure game- you play as a groups of astronauts who have to divert an oncoming meteorite, but are accidentally taken to an abandoned alien planet. So far, so sci-fi. What sets the game apart is the relation between the three astronauts- one of whom becomes addicted to a mysterious alien substance. Most of the game is spent exploring and trying to figure out what happened to everyone.

There are other well well-written and engaging adventure games but most are more funny than intellectually engaging. If you can hack it, there is of course the Myst series- especially if you like feeling abandoned in a mysterious beautiful/sinister world/series of worlds. Some, like the (first two) Broken Sword games are good for plot.

However, most likely, you like rpg games because of the purportedly meaningful choice they give you as a player, as well as intellectually engaging writing and emotionally interesting characters? Sounds to me, like our panacea will not be found in the commercial game market. If we drop our insistence on a graphical interface then are bountiful rewards to be found in the Interactive Fiction community. No I don't mean choose-your-own-adventure books. I mean the evolution of old-school text adventure games to a sophisticated new height. If you like being challenged, if you want the pleasures of literature and the interactivity of a game as well as in many cases the meaningfulness of choice then interactive fiction is for you. Plus, all the games are available for free online.

Three I'd recommend:

Shade- I can't tell you anything about the game without spoiling it, but if you want a game that gets inside your head then look no further. Shade - Details

Photopia- a moving game in nonlinear time that walks between fantasy and all-too harsh reality. Photopia - Details

Galatea- this isn't so much a game as a conversation- you'd be hard pressed to find a more intricately implemented npc- you can ask them anything you can think to ask, and even the order in which you bring things up effects what responses they give. Galatea - Details

simulacrum · Post by **simulacrum** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:07 pm

Some very good suggestions there. I would particularly like to second:

Grim Fandango - possibly my favourite adventure game of all time, set in a very disctinct environment full of charming characters and interesting allegories and a thought-provoking storyline which, though not as complex as Torment's, will resonate with you for some time to come.

Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers (Gabriel Knight 1) - Great mix of mystery, folklore and occultism combined with one of the most compelling "origin" stories of any computer game character.

Discworld Noir - Complex story and a great selections of characters to interact with (extensively) served with some very sharp british humour and well-suited melancholic atmosphere similar to great noir movies like Casablanca.

Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark: The original game was quite underwelming and the expansion "Shadows of Undretide" didn't satisfy me either but the second one was surprisingly deep with great story, interesting characters and excellent level design.

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - Incredible writing, excellent cast of characters and very intriguing side-quests but rather unpolished on the technical side. Thankfully there are numerous community patches out there who mend the situation, although I have yet to tried them myself.

Also, I would like to add another adventure with a thought-provoking, mature story (maybe unforgivingly so, avoid if you are not at least 18), named "Faust: Seven Games of the Soul". As the title suggests, you get to play as an old man named Faust, reliving the often tragic stories of several confused and tormented individuals who struggled with their own troubled nature and social environment. It may be a little difficult to track down and/or run on a modern PC but there you go.

Darth Gavinius · Post by **Darth Gavinius** » Tue May 11, 2010 9:39 am

I would recommend taking some time to go through the Neverwinter Nights Mod scene, quite a few years ago I pretty much played nothing else but mods for NWN and some of them are very, very well written. The people who devote themselves to these games are fans of Baldur's Gate and PS:T and a lot of other gameworlds and while some modules are little more than hack em up's, some have truly inspired storylines and fantastic writing.

Recommend Shadowlords/Dreamcatcher/Demon campaign, Tales of Arterra, Tortured Hearts (if you like heavy Roleplay), The Aeilund Saga, Elegia Eternum, Penultima/Penultima Rerolled, all fantastic games.

There is nothing remotely like PS:T... and the biggest praise I can give PS:T is that I could not bring myself to finish it... I need it's end to be a mystery to be solved another time and I have started it like 4/5 times. I will finish it one day, but I just know the day I do, will be the day I stop playing for good!

Makatak · Post by **Makatak** » Thu May 13, 2010 6:00 pm

Honestly, I don't understand what all the craze is about PST story compared to other games. Yeah, its got some interesting twists and things, but nothing earth shattering.

Seewolf · Post by **Seewolf** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:19 am

Makatak wrote:Honestly, I don't understand what all the craze is about PST story compared to other games. Yeah, its got some interesting twists and things, but nothing earth shattering.

One needs to admit that P:T is really unique in its setting, story and dialogues, even compared to some other brilliant classics like Fallout and BG.