Designed to be a "good" role playing build - evil that specifically targets evil. :mischief:
It's also designed to give a different playing experience from traditional melee/warrior builds or any build that even modestly incorporates magic. (..in other words a build that is a bit more difficult to play, but still entertaining - especially in role-playing context.)
Assassin: The Left Hand of Gargauth. | NWN2 Character Builder
Assassin: The Left Hand of Gargauth
I'm going through the OC with this build..
I'm at 9th level currently in the first level of the second Orc camp from Old Owl Well.
The lower levels were not as difficult as I thought they might be.
Part of this is due to the fact that the build's attack numbers are relatively "high" at this stage. Weapon Finesse adds +2 on the base Strength bonus plus another +1 with some Dexterity enhancing boots. Then add-in + 1 from the Bard class Inspiration. Finally add-in +1 from the Rapier enhancement. That's +5 IN ADDITION to what would normally be the character's +2 from Strength. (i.e. total +7). Of course you won't have a rapier to start, (or the Dexterity boots), so you "piddle" along with a +1 dagger until a bit after you meet Khelgar.
Part of it is also due to the early levels of High BAB Swashbuckler.
The other part is the use of Disarm - which is *very* useful (..and even surprisingly marginally useful with a Dagger at 3rd level).
I'm currently finding that I'm Disarming opponents with large 2-handed swords about 2/3rd's of the time (at least from a "hidden" state), less often from a "seen" state.
Disarm makes the character and odd sort of support character. You go around Disarming everyone while your other party members make the kills.
As far as damage is concerned, this build has more additional damage than a fighter (without the power attacks but with weapon specialization), at least from non-critical immune opponents. What it lacks however is good damage from the weapon itself (..rapier is only 1-6). I always equip Khelgar with a Greatsword (and build him up with that), and because of it his net damage is usually about double what this build provides. I'm getting about 9-13 on a NON-critically immune opponent per hit. Khelgar seems to average about 17 (..though he does have +2 fire damage that my character doesn't).
So far Undead haven't been a problem despite the limitation on Insightful strike. They just don't have that many hit-points. (..so the +2 from Strength, the +1 from the Inspiration, the +1 from the enhancement - seem to be adequate.. in addition to the weapon's damage.)
The most obvious "miss" for the build is the lack of cleave and great cleave. Because the build doesn't have them - it just doesn't seem as effective offensively.
As far as Death Attacks at this stage - pretty much missing in action. This is because the character is to weak to "solo" at this point, and because it doesn't have HiPS yet (or a cache of Invisibility potions). What this means is that while I might "lead the charge" for my party while hidden, that opponents see my party members and start running toward them in "attack mode". Because of the opponent's "attack mode" you can't score a Death Attack paralysis. You can still get some sneak attack damage however, particularly from flanking, but I'm rarely seeing more than 8+ damage from it at this stage.
Of course both the lack of Death Attacks (at this stage) and cleaves were expected, so no real disappointment.
I'm at 9th level currently in the first level of the second Orc camp from Old Owl Well.
The lower levels were not as difficult as I thought they might be.
Part of this is due to the fact that the build's attack numbers are relatively "high" at this stage. Weapon Finesse adds +2 on the base Strength bonus plus another +1 with some Dexterity enhancing boots. Then add-in + 1 from the Bard class Inspiration. Finally add-in +1 from the Rapier enhancement. That's +5 IN ADDITION to what would normally be the character's +2 from Strength. (i.e. total +7). Of course you won't have a rapier to start, (or the Dexterity boots), so you "piddle" along with a +1 dagger until a bit after you meet Khelgar.
Part of it is also due to the early levels of High BAB Swashbuckler.
The other part is the use of Disarm - which is *very* useful (..and even surprisingly marginally useful with a Dagger at 3rd level).
I'm currently finding that I'm Disarming opponents with large 2-handed swords about 2/3rd's of the time (at least from a "hidden" state), less often from a "seen" state.
Disarm makes the character and odd sort of support character. You go around Disarming everyone while your other party members make the kills.
As far as damage is concerned, this build has more additional damage than a fighter (without the power attacks but with weapon specialization), at least from non-critical immune opponents. What it lacks however is good damage from the weapon itself (..rapier is only 1-6). I always equip Khelgar with a Greatsword (and build him up with that), and because of it his net damage is usually about double what this build provides. I'm getting about 9-13 on a NON-critically immune opponent per hit. Khelgar seems to average about 17 (..though he does have +2 fire damage that my character doesn't).
So far Undead haven't been a problem despite the limitation on Insightful strike. They just don't have that many hit-points. (..so the +2 from Strength, the +1 from the Inspiration, the +1 from the enhancement - seem to be adequate.. in addition to the weapon's damage.)
The most obvious "miss" for the build is the lack of cleave and great cleave. Because the build doesn't have them - it just doesn't seem as effective offensively.
As far as Death Attacks at this stage - pretty much missing in action. This is because the character is to weak to "solo" at this point, and because it doesn't have HiPS yet (or a cache of Invisibility potions). What this means is that while I might "lead the charge" for my party while hidden, that opponents see my party members and start running toward them in "attack mode". Because of the opponent's "attack mode" you can't score a Death Attack paralysis. You can still get some sneak attack damage however, particularly from flanking, but I'm rarely seeing more than 8+ damage from it at this stage.
Of course both the lack of Death Attacks (at this stage) and cleaves were expected, so no real disappointment.
Why did you start with 18 Dex? Instead of start with 16 STR. That would give you in the end +1 AB/Damage. It would give up some hide and possibly an AC depending what armor wearing and AC bonus gear. By level 8 you'd have 18 STR and its not hard to advance to 8 with a start of 16 STR imho.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
You are right!Claudius wrote:Why did you start with 18 Dex? Instead of start with 16 STR. That would give you in the end +1 AB/Damage. It would give up some hide and possibly an AC depending what armor wearing and AC bonus gear. By level 8 you'd have 18 STR and its not hard to advance to 8 with a start of 16 STR imho.
Changed.
..update.
This past weekend I finished chapter 2. It seemed like half my time (or more) was spent putzing about with crafting.
I'm currently at level 15+.
It was a little slow going with only 2 attacks. But at level 14 I picked up a 3rd attack - that makes a rather large difference for this character in situations where you just need to kill off large numbers of weak opponents.
As far as the builds usefulness.. not great. Strangely it has nothing to do with an overabundance of critically immune opponents. In fact there haven't been that many, and from what I remember there won't be that many. Instead I have these problems:
1. "Bosses" that are some how immune to Paralysis. This includes Ammon Jerro - who fails the fortitude save yet isn't paralyzed.
2. "Canned" fights that don't give you the opportunity to "solo". There are a LOT of these.
3. "Rolling" a "1" on a fortitude save against "finger's of death". Literally *every* time a caster has cast this on my character I've some how managed to roll a 1. I'm starting to think it's the developers giving me the finger. (..and this is with 22 Spell Resistance.)
As far as basic damage is concerned - this character is very good, but the lack of attacks aren't.
..and there *are* areas where you get to "solo" and assassinate. In Arvahn both the Mines and Riverguard Keep. Ammon Jerro's Haven. Aldanon's House. That's it (so far). Basically it wasn't until after the "Trial" that I hit level 13 and got HiPS.
This past weekend I finished chapter 2. It seemed like half my time (or more) was spent putzing about with crafting.
I'm currently at level 15+.
It was a little slow going with only 2 attacks. But at level 14 I picked up a 3rd attack - that makes a rather large difference for this character in situations where you just need to kill off large numbers of weak opponents.
As far as the builds usefulness.. not great. Strangely it has nothing to do with an overabundance of critically immune opponents. In fact there haven't been that many, and from what I remember there won't be that many. Instead I have these problems:
1. "Bosses" that are some how immune to Paralysis. This includes Ammon Jerro - who fails the fortitude save yet isn't paralyzed.
2. "Canned" fights that don't give you the opportunity to "solo". There are a LOT of these.
3. "Rolling" a "1" on a fortitude save against "finger's of death". Literally *every* time a caster has cast this on my character I've some how managed to roll a 1.
I'm starting to think it's the developers giving me the finger. (..and this is with 22 Spell Resistance.)As far as basic damage is concerned - this character is very good, but the lack of attacks aren't.
..and there *are* areas where you get to "solo" and assassinate. In Arvahn both the Mines and Riverguard Keep. Ammon Jerro's Haven. Aldanon's House. That's it (so far). Basically it wasn't until after the "Trial" that I hit level 13 and got HiPS.
Final OC update:
Chapter 3 had very few opportunities for "solo" play. (..unless of course you actually did solo, but that's not what I did.)
Basically it was the non-peak portions of Mt. Galardrym and Crossroad Keep Outskirts (excepting the final battle on that "map").
Yeah, that's it.
Even if I had actually solo'ed (instead of party command "stand your ground"), there were still plenty of areas where you are required to take at least one party member. Of course I *could* have just let that party member die.. :mischief:
IMO.. skip an Assassin class build for the OC. There just aren't enough areas to "shine" for enough playable game-time.
Despite the preponderance of critically immune in MOTB, I actually think this build would be more appropriate to that campaign. (You'll have HiPS to start, and except for "food" spirits (which aren't really "fights"), the Death Gods Vault, and the Wood Man (just the fight with "him"), most opponents aren't critically immune. Moreover there aren't many scripted portions requiring companions, and in most cases the "stand your ground" technique should work. Finally, you have at least 3 attacks and lot's of non-critical damage for those critically immune opponents.)
What did I change?
I *would* have changed to a 16 Strength to start as Claudius mentioned (had I started the game after he had mentioned it).
I did change the order of class progression marginally. At character level 16 I switched back to the Assassin class for the final two levels of the class, and then back to the RDD class. The only reason I did this is because I accepted the Crossroad Keep Church assignment for alignment change to "good", and wanted to more quickly finish-up that Evil (required) class.
Finally I pretty much avoided Parry as a skill and put those points into UMD and Spellcraft.
Chapter 3 had very few opportunities for "solo" play. (..unless of course you actually did solo, but that's not what I did.)
Basically it was the non-peak portions of Mt. Galardrym and Crossroad Keep Outskirts (excepting the final battle on that "map").
Yeah, that's it.
Even if I had actually solo'ed (instead of party command "stand your ground"), there were still plenty of areas where you are required to take at least one party member. Of course I *could* have just let that party member die.. :mischief:
IMO.. skip an Assassin class build for the OC. There just aren't enough areas to "shine" for enough playable game-time.
Despite the preponderance of critically immune in MOTB, I actually think this build would be more appropriate to that campaign. (You'll have HiPS to start, and except for "food" spirits (which aren't really "fights"), the Death Gods Vault, and the Wood Man (just the fight with "him"), most opponents aren't critically immune. Moreover there aren't many scripted portions requiring companions, and in most cases the "stand your ground" technique should work. Finally, you have at least 3 attacks and lot's of non-critical damage for those critically immune opponents.)
What did I change?
I *would* have changed to a 16 Strength to start as Claudius mentioned (had I started the game after he had mentioned it).
I did change the order of class progression marginally. At character level 16 I switched back to the Assassin class for the final two levels of the class, and then back to the RDD class. The only reason I did this is because I accepted the Crossroad Keep Church assignment for alignment change to "good", and wanted to more quickly finish-up that Evil (required) class.
Finally I pretty much avoided Parry as a skill and put those points into UMD and Spellcraft.
Hi, long time no see. The part where your build "shines", is that it has high Strengh (hence a low possbility of being bull-rushed by mages at the start of battle) and all the benefits that come along, and preserves a "stealty" character.
I can't offer any useful suggestions to your half-way finished build, but wonders you thought about exploiting combat insight and insightful strike at the same time, and going DEX crazy for perfect two weapon fighting. I thought about this because you use the tiefling class (DEX INT bonus) and Swashbuckler class (which gives you insightful strike and weapon finesse for free). Couple that with the Assassin's Death Attack, and you're putting Intelligence to full use. SB 11/ASN 10/ IB 5, and you got spare 4 levels left to spend on (I'd go for 3 levels of NWN - or you can scrap IB and take Duelist 9).
Gosh...I feel like I want to build another one of my own.
I've spent the past 2 days doing nothing but leveling my Bard 8/Fighter 12/AA 9/SD 1 and finishing the OC. -- Yeah, I stole your idea of building a Bard-AA, but replaced the ranger levels with fighter levels (much better damage and to hit). Too bad I only got time since now, to implement the idea.
Give me some comments, if you have any. Thanks.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 18225.html
I can't offer any useful suggestions to your half-way finished build, but wonders you thought about exploiting combat insight and insightful strike at the same time, and going DEX crazy for perfect two weapon fighting. I thought about this because you use the tiefling class (DEX INT bonus) and Swashbuckler class (which gives you insightful strike and weapon finesse for free). Couple that with the Assassin's Death Attack, and you're putting Intelligence to full use. SB 11/ASN 10/ IB 5, and you got spare 4 levels left to spend on (I'd go for 3 levels of NWN - or you can scrap IB and take Duelist 9).
Gosh...I feel like I want to build another one of my own.
I've spent the past 2 days doing nothing but leveling my Bard 8/Fighter 12/AA 9/SD 1 and finishing the OC. -- Yeah, I stole your idea of building a Bard-AA, but replaced the ranger levels with fighter levels (much better damage and to hit). Too bad I only got time since now, to implement the idea.
Give me some comments, if you have any. Thanks.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 18225.html
"To die is nothing, but to live defeated is to die every day."
-Napoleon Bonaparte
-Napoleon Bonaparte
mbz wrote:Hi, long time no see. The part where your build "shines", is that it has high Strengh (hence a low possbility of being bull-rushed by mages at the start of battle) and all the benefits that come along, and preserves a "stealty" character.
I can't offer any useful suggestions to your half-way finished build, but wonders you thought about exploiting combat insight and insightful strike at the same time, and going DEX crazy for perfect two weapon fighting. I thought about this because you use the tiefling class (DEX INT bonus) and Swashbuckler class (which gives you insightful strike and weapon finesse for free). Couple that with the Assassin's Death Attack, and you're putting Intelligence to full use. SB 11/ASN 10/ IB 5, and you got spare 4 levels left to spend on (I'd go for 3 levels of NWN - or you can scrap IB and take Duelist 9).
Gosh...I feel like I want to build another one of my own.
I've spent the past 2 days doing nothing but leveling my Bard 8/Fighter 12/AA 9/SD 1 and finishing the OC. -- Yeah, I stole your idea of building a Bard-AA, but replaced the ranger levels with fighter levels (much better damage and to hit). Too bad I only got time since now, to implement the idea.
Give me some comments, if you have any. Thanks.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 18225.html
A dexterity build would have several differences.
1. poor attribute bonus damage until epic levels.
2. selecting a class *other* than RDD - which loads on Strength, which is other-wise a waste for Combat Insight. (i.e. Combat Insight takes the higher of Strength OR Intelligence modifiers, not both.)
3. poor Knockdown capability.. which is *extremely* useful (..particularly if Disarm fails).
4. poor resistance to Knockdown.
5. significantly lower attack numbers at higher levels.
Plus, it's not like you'll be leveling-up Intelligence at Epic levels - because that would not raise your attack numbers.
Really, Combat Insight is a poor substitute.. AND it takes up 2 feats, one of which is an Epic feat.
Also, the build isn't missing-out on stackable AC bonuses. The RDD class has them, and almost as many as you could get from the Invisible Blade class.
I'll try to look over your build tomorrow!
I played this build through MOTB.. or almost through it.
It's a *much* better experience. You always have HiPS. You can tell companions to "stay", and there are only a few canned fights (..and that's only provided you want to take them along.. because you don't need to). Many lesser opponents can be paralyzed with Death Attack, and even a few stronger ones. Humans, Dryads, Hagspawn, Gnolls, beasts, etc.. The ones you couldn't: Okku, Elementals, Undead, Plants, the 9 Coven members, and Araman. Even Elementals you can critical/sneak attack with a rapier you get at the beginning (..but not Death Attack paralysis). (..you can also get a critical type weapon against spirits in the Troll Lodge, but I never used it - and again, you can achieve criticals off of many spirits.)
CAUTION: If you want the best ending (..and most appropriate for an evil character), you must:
1. Be evil once you meet the Founder (I *think*).. this poses something of a problem if you go around using Eternal Rest on every undead you see (..for brilliant spirit essences). Suggestion. Use Eternal Rest on ALL the Shadows of the Void from the containers in the lower level entrance room of the Death God's Vault BEFORE doing most other tasks, and particularly ***before completing the undead ritual in the house in Shadow Mulsantir***. (..basically finish off both levels of the Vault immediately after chapter one- i.e. after sucking Okku dry.)
2. Must have One of Many as a party member, AND you must have him with you when you go to the "Acadamy" so that he is in your party once you reach Myrkul.
3. Almost any time you get a scripted action to Devour a Soul - take it. You can avoid the Priest in the furnace (for Eternal Rest), the two dreamers, and Ammon Jerro.
(..I got to the Founder and noticed I didn't have the option to devour her soul.. because I was "good" for consuming undead (along with most of the living), and didn't have OoM in my party when draining Mrykul (.and then draining OoM)).
It's a *much* better experience. You always have HiPS. You can tell companions to "stay", and there are only a few canned fights (..and that's only provided you want to take them along.. because you don't need to). Many lesser opponents can be paralyzed with Death Attack, and even a few stronger ones. Humans, Dryads, Hagspawn, Gnolls, beasts, etc.. The ones you couldn't: Okku, Elementals, Undead, Plants, the 9 Coven members, and Araman. Even Elementals you can critical/sneak attack with a rapier you get at the beginning (..but not Death Attack paralysis). (..you can also get a critical type weapon against spirits in the Troll Lodge, but I never used it - and again, you can achieve criticals off of many spirits.)
CAUTION: If you want the best ending (..and most appropriate for an evil character), you must:
1. Be evil once you meet the Founder (I *think*).. this poses something of a problem if you go around using Eternal Rest on every undead you see (..for brilliant spirit essences). Suggestion. Use Eternal Rest on ALL the Shadows of the Void from the containers in the lower level entrance room of the Death God's Vault BEFORE doing most other tasks, and particularly ***before completing the undead ritual in the house in Shadow Mulsantir***. (..basically finish off both levels of the Vault immediately after chapter one- i.e. after sucking Okku dry.)
2. Must have One of Many as a party member, AND you must have him with you when you go to the "Acadamy" so that he is in your party once you reach Myrkul.
3. Almost any time you get a scripted action to Devour a Soul - take it. You can avoid the Priest in the furnace (for Eternal Rest), the two dreamers, and Ammon Jerro.
(..I got to the Founder and noticed I didn't have the option to devour her soul.. because I was "good" for consuming undead (along with most of the living), and didn't have OoM in my party when draining Mrykul (.and then draining OoM)).
I have an idea...
Assassin 8
Wizard 8
EK 10
SB 4
BAB 24
Intelligence 20
Silenced True Strike to deliver death attacks???
Assassin 8
Wizard 8
EK 10
SB 4
BAB 24
Intelligence 20
Silenced True Strike to deliver death attacks???
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Claudius wrote:I have an idea...
Assassin 8
Wizard 8
EK 10
SB 4
BAB 24
Intelligence 20
Silenced True Strike to deliver death attacks???
I've tried variations on this..
There are two basic limitations that work against this:
1. True Strike "outs" stealth.
2. True Strike must be used the round immediately following the spell's casting.
IF it was just one of those you could still make it effective, but with both it becomes to difficult. It *can* work with ranged attackers that are far away, but mostly just for those times when you need a much higher attack number.
Another "build-type" is to use Invisibility from the Warlock's spell listing, AND True Strike from a potion.
[quote="Scottg"]3. Almost any time you get a scripted action to Devour a Soul - take it. You can avoid the Priest in the furnace (for Eternal Rest), the two dreamers, and Ammon Jerro.
QUOTE]
I guess you'll have to the use the devour spirit options in the death temple for brilliant essenses. Rest and repeat (I wonder why doesn't the game award evil points for using devour soul?) . It's too dangerous to maintain a high craving rate.
I kinda missed NWN1, where you can kill everybody in town for evil points and exprience too...
QUOTE]
I guess you'll have to the use the devour spirit options in the death temple for brilliant essenses. Rest and repeat (I wonder why doesn't the game award evil points for using devour soul?) . It's too dangerous to maintain a high craving rate.
I kinda missed NWN1, where you can kill everybody in town for evil points and exprience too...
"To die is nothing, but to live defeated is to die every day."
-Napoleon Bonaparte
-Napoleon Bonaparte
mbz wrote:Scottg wrote:3. Almost any time you get a scripted action to Devour a Soul - take it. You can avoid the Priest in the furnace (for Eternal Rest), the two dreamers, and Ammon Jerro.
QUOTE]
I guess you'll have to the use the devour spirit options in the death temple for brilliant essenses. Rest and repeat (I wonder why doesn't the game award evil points for using devour soul?) . It's too dangerous to maintain a high craving rate.
I kinda missed NWN1, where you can kill everybody in town for evil points and exprience too...
NO resting (or actually seldom resting).
You just wait-out the 5 minute cool-down.. reading a book, watching a show, or doing some work.
You do in fact have to rest on occasion because after certain number of spirit/soul devouring the "feat" null's out and doesn't work anymore (..until you rest for a full period). You do get at least 5 uses though before this is neccesary, but there are 16 containers of Shadows of the Void. The priest are also good sources of brilliant spirit essences.
I typically clear out all the unlocked rooms first (..including the Lich Lord room), to give my peeps a safe place to "hang-out" while I systematically go through each Shadow Void urn. You do need to be careful though that the Shadow Void doesn't cast cone of cold and break other urns. You can do this by putting your character in the center of the room after stealing the gold from the container/urn.
Note that I do the Library first, then the Lich Lord room, and then do the Shadow of the Void containers. Only then do I have Sayfia's familiar open-up the room to the prison - where a bunch of priests are. The final rooms I clear (..that I can clear) are the ones with the Ancient Vampires.. which aren't worth "devouring". The whole time my companions are in the cleared-out Lich Lord room.
How the developers can create "Eternal Rest" that gives +2 points to Good (for devouring Undead), and create "Devour *SOUL*" (for "humans") that does NOT give at least +2 points to Evil is an utterly absurd mystery.