Need help understanding

[Ragin Cajun]

For a mage, what is better... +magic or +defense items? In the early going, before the Joining, you get some Enchanter's Footings and a Chasind Robe (I think). They give like +3 and +6 defense respectively. Then I have Mage's Robes which are +2 magic.

[galraen]

Personally I'd go with the +2 magic, the extra defence isn't likely to keep you alive long enough to make a difference is my view. Extra spell power is always good though.

[Crenshinibon]

You want to get as much defense as you can. It really helps you stand in the middle of combat without really getting hit. By the time I finished Origins, my mage had over a hundred defense and it was very rare that physical attacks hit me.

Magic is important yes, but you will have more than enough anyway, since all your points will be going there anyway, and your Spellpower should be well off anyway, due to the boost from your staff, Spell Whisp and Spell Might.

[Stworca]

You want to get as much defense as you can.

This

[galraen]

It really helps you stand in the middle of combat

Edit: What is a mage doing in the middle of combat to start with?

Unless you're playing solo of course, but if you're playing it as designed then a mage needs magic and willpower, not defence. A mage's defence is the tank, basher and rogue he or she has along just for that purpose. Mages. not surprisingly make crap fighters, unless you're talking about Arcane Warriors, in that case defence is more important.

But if you're going to be a fighter, be a fighter, I couldn't figure out the point of an arcane mage, unless you intend to solo the game.

I've played through most of the game with a mage, and hardly got hit,never went down, and that was with a constitution of 12, strength of 14, cunning 16, and the rest on willpower and magic, plus every magic + magic pwer boosting item I could get. If the enemy lived long enough to get near me my shield wall took care of it. Alistair and Sten are really good at being meat shields, it's their purpose in the game after all.

[Crenshinibon]

I was of course talking from the solo perspective. But just because a mage focuses in defense doesn't mean that he has to be a fighter. The mage that I just finished playing was a fully spell dependent mage, no hack and slash at all. Yes, defense for a mage has less point when in a party, but otherwise, it's crucial (unless you want to keep guzzling down those potions).

[Ragin Cajun]

I'm assuming that heavy defense would be good as well for an Arcane Warrior?

In going an Arcane Warrior spec should you add points to strength and go with medium or heavier armor? This comes up because I happened to notice several heavier armor sets (Dragon Armor for example) that had a "magic" requirement when viewing with a mage but a strength requiem with looking at with Alister for example.

Also, in an AC spec do you wield a staff and then switch to the AC sword when engaged at melee range? I'm assuming because it's a sword that it's a melee attack based on strength which is the reason for the above question.

[Crenshinibon]

NEVER put points into strength as an Arcane Warrior. They use their Magic as a Strength score instead. So while you could equip heavy armor by having either a high strength or a high magic score, increasing magic makes more sense, since your abilities depend on it.

Defense is MUCH better for Arcane Warriors than armor is.

It all depends on playstyle. One of my characters only had the Arcane Warrior specialization so that she could wear some helms and light armor, but in all other regards she was a spellflinger and as such used a staff.

I would personally using a staff to cast all of your spells (primarily because Spellfury gives you a large bonus to spellpower, thus making your spells more potent, sustained spells included) and use melee weapons (maybe even a bow, though I haven't tried this), as your main mode of attack.

The sword will use magic instead of strength to determine your damage. Your attack score however will not be increased, but you don't really need it because of spells that decrease the enemies' defense and items that grand a bonus to attack.

[Ragin Cajun]

Good info..thanks Cren.

One other point of topic I read elsewhere about AC.

Right now I'm just arriving at Ostagar. I've put maybe two or three points into Willpower (for mana pool) and the rest into Magic (which increases spell damage if I read that right).

The concern/question is regarding my mana pool. Thusfar I have two spells (Rock Armor and the Spirit Wisp) that are sustained spells. Activating these before combat, I have only about half my mana pool which is depleted rapidly. I'm really concerned once I get a few more sustained spells (which I know the AC build is really heavy on these) like Miasma and of course Combat Magic and the others in the AW tree that I won't have enough mana in my pool to utilize all these AND then cast spells on top of that.

How should I balance that because it appears my Willpower and Magic have to be about 50/50 in order to have enough to power the sustained spells and still have a reserve for actual casting.

[Crenshinibon]

I suggest that you choose a role: be a spellcaster or a melee fighter. Alternatively, you could just cast all of your spells for and activate your sustained spells when you are out of mana, for efficiency.

I always put all of my points into Magic and never suffer mana problems, primarily due to mana regeneration and items that give bonus to mana/stamina.

On the subject of Rock Armor: you don't need it. Armor pales in comparison to defense. You mainly only need it when you are being grabbed or overwhelmed.

For armor, stick to light armor that gives bonus to defense, that way, you keep your fatigue low and your spells cheap.

The reason I'm telling you to choose a role is because you only have melee presence through Combat Magic, which also curses you with 50% fatigue. As such, your spells cost MUCH more.

You can probably make a hybrid character that is more flexible than the two that I suggested, but also less potent, or you can just start as a spellflinger and transition to a juggernaut as soon as your mana runs out.

For an Arcane Warrior, Magic plays three roles: increases spell effects, increases damage and lets you wear better armor.

[Scottg]

My take is a bit different..

Except perhaps early-on, I don't ever specifically look for defense items. 5-20 extra points in defense doesn't add-up to a whole lot of "misses".

% chance to Dodge however does. An Arcane Warrior's "Fade Shroud" furthers this by an additional 25%.

..and yes, it works in conjunction with Defense, but it is overall more important. (..and when it works, it works against special attacks that Defense does not.)

The other thing I look for are Resistances. Most importantly: Physical Resistance. (..which is often found on Armor items.. i.e. yet another excellent reason to select the Arcane Warrior specialty.) Also, Constitution modifiers add to this resistance, and the hit-points are always helpful (even for NON-blood mages).

[Crenshinibon]

Well, a lot of your defense is gained from Arcane Shield, however, you should be able to get high defense items really early on. Right off the bat, Bodan sells some +6 defense boots. After the Mage's tower (my personal first-stop), you can score some Mage-only +12 defense boots. The Libertarian's Cowl (another +12 defense) is availible during the Mage's tower quest as well. After two more quest lines, you should be able to purchase Felon's Coat, which grants you +9 defense. So, after the first story quest, you have a nice +24 bonus to defense. After you get Felon's Coat, you increase this to 33. The bonuses from Arcane Shield depend on your spellpower. Make sure to cast it with Spell Wisp, Spell Might on and Staff of the Magister Lord equipped - equip the staff first for the spell power bonus and then activate the two spells.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that it's possible to achieve 90% - 100% dodge on a mage, however, there are disadvantages to it this as, in my experience, when an attack is "dodged" your character does a little sidestep, which cancels whatever action he/she was performing before. As such, it can interrupt spells or attack animations, potentially working against you. With a high defense, attacks miss.

Because of the way the code is written, I'm not sure if the dodge bonus from Fade Shroud and Fade Shield stack with the dodge bonus on the items, so someone might have to confirm that.

Physical resistance can be nice because it lets you resist knockdown and takes off some of the damage, but mainly it's not worth investing stat points into strength (or constitution for the general resistances) because having less points in Magic makes you offensively and defensively weaker.

By the time I finished Origins, my Arcane Warrior (only one point in the tree so I could wear armor) spellflinger had over 100 defense, gaining about 28 defense from Arcane Shield alone.

[Scottg]

Well, a lot of your defense is gained from Arcane Shield, however, you should be able to get high defense items really early on. Right off the bat, Bodan sells some +6 defense boots. After the Mage's tower (my personal first-stop), you can score some Mage-only +12 defense boots. The Libertarian's Cowl (another +12 defense) is availible during the Mage's tower quest as well. After two more quest lines, you should be able to purchase Felon's Coat, which grants you +9 defense. So, after the first story quest, you have a nice +24 bonus to defense. After you get Felon's Coat, you increase this to 33. The bonuses from Arcane Shield depend on your spellpower. Make sure to cast it with Spell Wisp, Spell Might on and Staff of the Magister Lord equipped - equip the staff first for the spell power bonus and then activate the two spells.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that it's possible to achieve 90% - 100% dodge on a mage, however, there are disadvantages to it this as, in my experience, when an attack is "dodged" your character does a little sidestep, which cancels whatever action he/she was performing before. As such, it can interrupt spells or attack animations, potentially working against you. With a high defense, attacks miss.

Because of the way the code is written, I'm not sure if the dodge bonus from Fade Shroud and Fade Shield stack with the dodge bonus on the items, so someone might have to confirm that.

Physical resistance can be nice because it lets you resist knockdown and takes off some of the damage, but mainly it's not worth investing stat points into strength (or constitution for the general resistances) because having less points in Magic makes you offensively and defensively weaker.

By the time I finished Origins, my Arcane Warrior (only one point in the tree so I could wear armor) spellflinger had over 100 defense, gaining about 28 defense from Arcane Shield alone.

It's got to be a 2 part calculation Dodge and then Defense.

Dodge does not seem limited. By that I mean that you can Dodge special attacks (though not "auto hit" variety), and that it doesn't have any level difference checks.

Defense seems to have both limitations - i.e. does nothing for protecting against a special attacks and does lower (or raise) depending on the difficulty of the opponent and game settings (which factors into his/her attack score that is compared to your defense score).

Also, Defense is stripped if incapacitated with a special attack (..overwhelm or stun, both of which are Physical resistance based btw), Dodge isn't.

IF you have Arcane Shield, Heroic Defense, and are standing in a Glyph of Warding - then your Defense rating is dramatically boosted and those additional + defense items start paying off.

..and of course early in the game (and throughout) if all you have access to are Defense items, then of course use them, but unless you are using the "triple threat" defense combo regularly, then I'd almost certainly opt for + Dodge items over Defense items. i.e. Imperial Weavers over Magus War Boots, Reaper's Vestments over the Felon's Coat, The First Enchanter's Cowl over the Libertarians Cowl, etc..


Of course there are *other* reasons why I might choose some of those items as well.


I've done similar builds with high defense only (no dodge) and still get hit - regularly (..in a mob situation with several attackers). Add significant Dodge bonuses to a good Defense score and it seems to happen less often than a high Defense score alone.

People talk about being immune nearing 130 in defense, but I haven't found that to be the case.


Yes, I've seen the "side-step" thing as well, which can sometimes delay the attack, but I've never seen it canceled. (..effectively though it might work out to be the same thing, don't know.)

Fade Shroud and Fade Shield (Awakenings only) stack with item dodge bonuses..

I think that Physical resistance is hugely important.. but like you: there are other ways to get it without compromising Magic. Life Giver alone is a "must" IMO..