Creating 3 characters to save Imoen!

[willsanders84]

I want to create three characters for a four man party. As per usual, I'm playing vanilla SoA, but if the party keeps my interest, might venture into ToB. I'm mostly concerned with the fulfilment of specific roles so I want:

A Fighter
A Cleric
A Thief
A Mage

Also, I wouldn't call myself a powergamer, as the roles of each party member are more important to me, but I am looking to make each character as powerful as I possibly can. I'm currently thinking:

Half Orc barbarian, dual weild FoA and Belm. I'm also tempted by a straight half-orc berserker, wearing the black full plate +2. Is one really more powerful than the other?! I just HATE how puny chain looks!


Human berserker(9)/cleric, shield and mace. I've done this a million times, and I'm happy with it.

Some kind of thief. Will be female. This is the build that's currently concerning me the most. My criterion are - must backstab and perform all thief skills, including pick pocket. Would like to have thief sprite, with the hood, but won't SK it. I don't know whether to go for an elven fighter/thief multi, a straight assassin, or a human dual class. The dual classing gap isn't a problem, and having two characters both reduced to lvl 1 at the same time is fine.

Imoen. She's my sister, come on.

So that's what I'm going for! I could really use some help. I'm confident that Imoen becomes just about as powerful as a spell caster can (I can hear stworca screaming 'SORCERER!'). I'm fairly confident about my beserker/cleric, but what about the other two? I KNOW that if I wanted power I could just make one the carbon copy of Jan, and use a blade instead of a fighter, because they're better at it. But you see what I'm going for. Four man party, Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Thief, classic D&D. I'm more inclined to do single, pure classes for each, than end up with a mish mash of builds.

Thanks guys! I appreciate any ideas, suggestions (except, and I KNOW someone's going to say it, 'Kensai/Thief is the only thief build!').

[Stworca]

For the barb i'd dual weild FoA and DoE (defender of easthaven), depending on your difficulty ofcourse.

Since you want a claric and a fighter, and you have an idea for cleric already (although pretty distant one) why not have the fighter build vice versa. Cleric of Talos X / Warrior.

For thievery Imoen is enough, her skill will open all locks in entire SoA and ToB, don't expect to backstab anything tho.

For mage - Imoen can also be enough.

You may have a rough time early in the game, when you dual both warr and cleric, so take a pure-class, one that can handle foes on its own and is usefull at every stage of the game.. Preferably a spellcaster.. Could it be?

(I can hear stworca screaming 'SORCERER!')

I never scream, i only gently whisper and impose my will on others

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

If it's power along those lines you're after, I'd suggest

Cleric - half-elf Ranger/Cleric with FoA & DoE.
Thief - Wizard Slayer/Thief dual.
Mage - Imoen.
Fighter - Probably a half-orc Berserker (grandmastery over Specialised, better armor choices), deck him out with 2-handed weapons.

[willsanders84]

Well, I'm happy with the dual class fighter/cleric. As for thievery, I want someone a little more potent than Imoen. I find that with some traps, Imoen has to use the ring of danger sense, and to pickpocket a storekeep I have to use at least two potions of master thievery. I need someone that can do it all! At the moment I'm leaning towards single class thief, but I'm tempted by assassin. However, that 25% drop in thieving skills is a real problem, and I'm not sure that the assassin abilities warrant it. Do you think they do?

As for Ode's wizard slayer/thief I'm reluctant to choose it and have to wait until I get UAI. I might not even install ToB.

And Ode, an interesting weapon choice for the half orc berserker - two handed weapons. I know that there are some good halberds, but are they really better than 5 attacks per round with FoA? And Ode, I appreciate the elven ranger/cleric suggestion, it IS the most powerful divine build going.

Thanks guys, and Stworca, your youtube sorcerer demo, and your spell pick post have really tempted me, but it has to be Immy with the spells!

[Stworca]

In vanilla SoA there aren't many good 2h weapons. FoA's biggest pro is its secondary effects, so i'd stick to dual. The only 2h in SoA that i pick is Carsomyr, or Unholy Reaver if i have Tactics installed.

the -25% thief skills for assassin is not a problem at all. Look at Immy. She has lvl.. 7? in thief class and can open everything in both SoA and ToB, so you won't have to spend much on disarm / open. I prefer the usage of invisibility potions / items / spells over hiding, if you do so too, that leaves only detect illusion to spend points at. Which is very nice to have.
What about pickpocket you ask? I only bothered once with it, and while sometimes you can get realy nice stuff, with 3 characters you'll be swimming in gold anyway. As you mentioned, you can always use thievery potions to boost your chance.

For SOA wizard slayer / thief is perfect as an archer but you need G3 Tweaks to add miscast magic effect on his ranged attacks aswell (which should be there in the first place, but due to bug / lack of time they left it out)

edit : as for the vid.. Everything went bad there Glabrezu turned on me, sword got stunned, they went for djinn, a few dozen resist magic too much, the poor wish choices (do i want to lose 10 000 gp, gain hardiness or time stop with 2 good spells left? Hmm!), chain contingency triggered at the worst time, and more.. Still pulled it out, and even tho normally i own this fight in five mins top with a few spells left - i'm too lazy to record twice

[Daynov]

Just a minor correction about the wizard slayer/thief. To add miscast magic on ranged attacks you actually need the fixpack.

[kmonster]

If you want your half-orc to be useful you should max his/her physical stats and dualwield for extra attacks, else (s)he will be overshadowed by the berserker/cleric.

Don't take a pure class thief, if you need as many thieving skill points as possible take a fighter7/thief. 7 fighter levels are enough for twice as much attacks per round and big specialisation bonuses for to hit and damage and cost last than half a thief level. Another option is cleric9/thief so you can boost your thieving skills with draw upon holy might.

[Stworca]

Don't make ALL your characters dual classes, unless you have a solid plan for lvl 8-14. It's quite easy to get roflstomped once every character you have suddenly turns lvl 1.

Again - depends on the difficulty and quests you pick at that time. Going for Firkraag at lvl 8 (thus as lvl 1) would cause serious injuries

Another option is cleric9/thief so you can boost your thieving skills with draw upon holy might.

Not to mention Armor of Faith for when you take a beating, Sanctuary when you take a SERIOUS beating, Doom to turn the tide of combat, protection from fire, to ease up Immy's spellbook, and dispel magic, to easy up Immy's spellbook some more. You'll also be able to use shields without UAI. Handy

- If you want that any of your character stays single class... Create him as priest and dual right after the game starts. Why?
First of all armor of faith! Damage reduction is the key to later fights, cause enemy can wipe your whole party with just one spell if you fail its save (Horrid willings for 100 is a good example) This 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 % (which is always added to your regular resistances) may be lifesaving.
Next on the list is Sanctuary, Doom and DUDM. Free time to prebuff in middle of hell, a handy saving throws debuff, and a bonus to all melee stats.
Then we have resist fire and cold (cold is usefull only against Adalon, but fire..! 80% of non-physical damage is fire including many HLAs!)
Last 3 positions (level 3 spells) are dispel magic - its good to have a magic dispell for everyone!) Protection from fire (100% to normal and 80% to magical!) and zone of sweet air (for my gameplay in later encounters its not necessary, but its always good to have in emergency case).

However, as i mentioned before, watch the dual class trap. Possibly do all the "just go there and talk to a guy to get a milion XP" quests for the moment of switching.. At the very beginning of the game that is

[Pellinore]

Well, for the "every character suddenly lvl 1" thing, u could save all those silly, weak minor quests for this. Like some of the graveyard quests and the errand type quests. It worked well for me.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

As for Ode's wizard slayer/thief I'm reluctant to choose it and have to wait until I get UAI. I might not even install ToB.

And Ode, an interesting weapon choice for the half orc berserker - two handed weapons. I know that there are some good halberds, but are they really better than 5 attacks per round with FoA? And Ode, I appreciate the elven ranger/cleric suggestion, it IS the most powerful divine build going.

Thanks guys, and Stworca, your youtube sorcerer demo, and your spell pick post have really tempted me, but it has to be Immy with the spells!

I suggest FoA/DoE for the Cleric because with Armor of Faith (and Hardiness if you install ToB) it makes them uber-tanks and due to Cleric weapon restrictions there aren't many good weapons for Clerics. There are some pretty sweet 2-handed weapons even in vanilla SoA (the spear in the Sahuaguin city, the Dragon's Breath halberd, and the vorpal sword spring to mind) and you don't seem to have anyone who can really use most of them in the rest of your lineup, so your fighter-type is a natural choice for the big guns (and it's fun to have a berserk half-orc chunk hordes of foes with a great big sword).
I'd definitely install ToB, even if you don't go the WS/Thief dual - Watcher's Keep is just too useful for decking characters out and XP. Fighter/Thief or Mage/Thief multiclass will do you well too, but you might as well just go with Jan for the latter.

Well, for the "every character suddenly lvl 1" thing, u could save all those silly, weak minor quests for this. Like some of the graveyard quests and the errand type quests. It worked well for me.

That, leaving major quests just short of unfinished, and the ever-reliable 'Memorize lots of scrolls' tricks should do you fine.