ME3 wish list. Mass Spoilers of 1 and 2.

[Rad]

Here's a question. Bioware has said repeatedly that Paragon and Renegade players will have an entirely different experience in ME3. What do you think this will translate to?

[Stworca]

Actually, the Rachni you fight on Noveria and elsewhere are insane. Remember they almost defeated the Assari and Salarians before the introduction of the Krogan. They use starships, and I would bet living ones. Remember the news flash in ME2 about ships matching ancient Rachni profiles?

Ah yes, i remember the news. Never payed attention or stopped to think about it. I stand corrected.

So assuming you wen't with all "good choices" you have.. Rachni, cure for genophage on the way, a few alive colonists (thorian slaves), Terra Nova citizens, maybe the salarian commando, plus shadow broker, and perhaps the collector base. edit (oh, and geth and perhaps the fleet!)

Seems like quite a lot of avaliable stuff, and i must say - i hope it will all make a difference. Shadow Broker seems the most valuable one, as his (her) web is extremely complicated and wide.

Oh, you also have the Shepards Retirement House (from pinnacle)

edit :

Here's a question. Bioware has said repeatedly that Paragon and Renegade players will have an entirely different experience in ME3. What do you think this will translate to?

I think i may have just answered it above before reading the question. All the big renegade / paragon decissions meant that someone may live or die.

[Belthan]

My theory on the endgame: the Reapers are quasi-good guys. They've been going all Nietzsche on sentient life every 50K years in an attempt to develop a species that will be able quell the really, really bad thing they know is coming. Shepard has decide whether to betray everything he fought so hard to protect in the first two installments by working with the Reapers to fix the "big picture" problem (if he can convince them humanity is up to the task), or break the cycle and face the consequences (possibly via Stworca's Pyrrhic victory option, which I like a lot).

[Stworca]

My theory on the endgame: the Reapers are quasi-good guys.

Only Hideo Kojima could sell that story in game, and make it believable.

I uninstalled NWN2 when githjanki turned out to be protecting the world from a greater evil. Besides, what could be a greater evil than a race that wipes everything but themselves out, and tortures and transforms others? And turns them into resources (matrix style, except painfuly and instantly)?

A race that wipes the reapers aswell. Which makes them only fight for their own survival, not a higher cause. Thus they are neutral at best. Eventualy the "greater evil" could destroy the entire galaxy and wipe out not only all the inteligent species, but also planets that could hold such in the future.. But if Bioware goes that way, i bet that their lack of polishing and commitment will cause it to be poor.

Although the story you've told reminds me of Infamous

GAME-BREAKINGinfamous spoilers ahead, don't read them if you plan on playing the game!

(spoiler)

Spoiler

Where the main hero teleported himself from the future, to cause havoc and destruction, and kill his own beloved one so that the main hero from the past may be stronger. The end boss in inf is the main hero from ze future. All this so that the main hero from the past will be stronger than the future one, who failed to stop great evil that massacred human population due to caring about his wife too much.

(/spoiler)

And while your story is something Bioware could add.. as i said before, only Kojima would sell it well. Bioware doesn't even remove Miranda's Scaner Upgrade from console when porting the game to PC. Are we to believe they would be able to make a mind-**** story that makes sense?

[Rad]

My theory of "the reason why the Reapers reap things" is this:

However many millions of years ago, the species that created the Reapers saw a star doing what the Haestrom star is doing, growing old due to build up of Dark Energy. The race panicked, and decided that this was going to eventually destroy all of the stars in the galaxy. the saw the only way to save themselves was to turn their entire race into gigantic techno-organic living starships. They also decided that since this was such a good idea to save their race, they should wait and observe other species. Any that showed the right potential, and were compatible with the process, should also be saved from the coming universal Armageddon.

It's also entirely possible that the Reapers have forgotten WHY they do what they do (reap things), and they just keep doing it because that's what they do.

This makes the Reapers more tragic figures; an overreaction to a odd, but rare, and largely harmless phenomenon, and not plain cartoon bad guys. It also has the benefit of tying up one of the more mystifying loose threads from ME2.

[Stworca]

I think that if they used the "Reapers forgot why they reap" it would be a bit too common for Mass Effect. Rachni went mad, and forgot how to use toilets (amongst other things). Collectors / Protheans got turned into another race, and forgot what is what. Reapers would forget too?

But this too is a very possible scenario, and Bioware just might think of something alike.

If they do, i just hope that there won't be any "Reminding Reapers what they are" bit. I find it very unlikely that anyone would be able after so long.

I also doubt that there were no previous attempts, if that was the scenario. Protheans were much more technologically advanced than alliance and council races, yet they seem to have failed, and no beacon mentioned the nature of the reapers. Why would humans discover such a thing?

[Rad]

I think that if they used the "Reapers forgot why they reap" it would be a bit too common for Mass Effect. Rachni went mad, and forgot how to use toilets (amongst other things). Collectors / Protheans got turned into another race, and forgot what is what. Reapers would forget too?

I would call that a "Common Thread" of the series then.

If they do, i just hope that there won't be any "Reminding Reapers what they are" bit. I find it very unlikely that anyone would be able after so long.

Yes, redeeming the Reapers would be stupid to say the least.

I also doubt that there were no previous attempts, if that was the scenario. Protheans were much more technologically advanced than alliance and council races, yet they seem to have failed, and no beacon mentioned the nature of the reapers. Why would humans discover such a thing?

If you remember from ME1, the Protheans had no idea about the nature of the Reapers or what they wanted. The Reapers have taken every other species by surprise, Protheans included, and that explains why no one has figured any of this out. We, meaning the species of the galaxy this time around, are the only races that have had any kind of warning.

[Stworca]

True, but only a handful of people actually believe the reaper story. Cerberus and Shadow Broker are the only organisations that know the truth and have any chance of finding anything at all.

I guess that if anyone found out, it would be Cerberus, due to sheer amount of resources that they can push around to uncover secrets from thousands of years ago. But it still would be similiar to.. say.. Holmes trying to figure out why did Alexander 'the Great' die with a 100% certainty.

At any rate.. Can you explain why in lords name the reapers are still comming, when Shep managed to secure the citadel? From what i understand Sov was the only reaper left, and all others were in.. dark corners of the galaxy was it? And from what i remember they needed the relay that is Citadel.. But now they do not need it anymore?

[Rad]

I guess that if anyone found out, it would be Cerberus, due to sheer amount of resources that they can push around to uncover secrets from thousands of years ago.

I'd put my money on the Shadow Broker putting the pieces together. THAT info-network puts anything Cerberus can do to shame. It is also a good reason why they put her there.

From what i understand Sov was the only reaper left, and all others were in.. dark corners of the galaxy was it?

Sovereign was the one hiding in the "dark corners" as you say, the rest are in the void between galaxies, aka "Dark Space"

At any rate.. Can you explain why in lords name the reapers are still comming, when Shep managed to secure the citadel? And from what i remember they needed the relay that is Citadel.. But now they do not need it anymore?

That is one of those questions Bioware better have a damn good answer for in my book. I would say they used some other agents (ie, not Collectors) to modify an existing relay to connect to dark space. Anyway, who's to say the Citadel was the first dark space relay the Reapers built? Another viable answer is the "other agents" reactivated an old dark space relay that the Reapers stopped using once they came up with the Citadel trap.

[Rad]

So we have agreed that it should be tougher, but not by adding 20 damage immune krogans

Sorry to drag this up from way back, but I wanted to elaborate.

I don't necessarily want "tougher". I want more realistic environment layouts. The Mordin and Archangel recruitment mission locations looked alright, like places you might actually find somewhere. The rest of the game was more linear shooting galleries with all too conveniently, and obviously placed cover objects.

[Stworca]

Belthan mentioned Tali's loyalty mission, the last fight of the mission, as tough.

I assume its the one with Geth prime and two lesser ones. But i must say that it wasn't even worthy of beign an end-fight. Widow shot to the head on the trooper -> Stealth -> Widow shot to the head. One down. Run around corner. Widow -> stealth -> widow and only prime is left. The first mech you encounter is a good practice for running around in circles while the stupid AI cannot shot you.

Should they surround you (as in the second trooper goes left and the prime right) then use Tali and the other NPC as meat shields.

As for Mordin.. Well, i only can think of two places in Mordin where there is any open space. One before you reach the clinic, where Vorcha fight the mercs.. I took a sniping position (up on the ramp) and no problemo. Arc' the powers so that enemy powers are useless and it's all kittens and rainbows.
The second place in Mordin that i can think as beign open is either the big hall - again sniping position - or the last location shaped like a fork. Bunkering yourself wins it.

Archangel other parts? The first stage, siege, is extremely easy. Shot them as soon as they appear, and restock ammo that infinitely spawns around the room.

The part with krogan? He's tough as nails, but iirc uses a shotgun. These have a long delay between shots, strike in between them and charge across the room for cover when he charges towards you.

Blue suns? Stay near the entrance the entire time. The mercs can only enter from the window far on the right.

Archangel right shuttle was tough because you couldn't play on your terms, you had to move, and you had to move NOW. Plus the open room naturally..

So i guess we require a mix of open space and pressure.

How about this.. Most of the places behind which you can take cover are destructible, so you cannot play as Maginot Line in an alternative world, where Belgium doesn't exist. Plus no auto-healing.

We're talking about energy weapons here, so they should be able to damage, pierce or melt even steel. Not to mention grenades.. which too should be used by the enemies more often. Add this to some open rooms, and we can have many tough situations.. Also, flame throwers should be used on covering squad. If i was an eclipse merc / collector / whatever, you can bet any money you want that i would toss grenades like a madman to flush Shepard out, so he can get hit in the face with a bucketload from shotgun

IF all of the above would be inplemented on top of existing ME2 combat system, Normal would be Normal, and not "super easy named as normal"

And no, with the slowdown that Soldier and Infiltrator have, plus the PAUSE mechanism (where you can rotate the camera!) it would still be easily beatable by people who don't play FPS games. All one would have to do is correctly judge the situation, and stay on his toes.

[Rad]

Belthan mentioned Tali's loyalty mission, the last fight of the mission, as tough.

I didn't find it hard either, but since I haven't played an Infiltrator, my tactics differ. I take out the minions first, then I go with a combination of strafing and shooting through the openings at the Prime. When the Prime gets where I don't want him, I use Tali's drone as a distraction and redeploy. I've found you can keep the Prime off balance enough to make the fight trivial.

The other locations you mentioned were not tough, but they LOOKED like real locations, not the aforementioned shooting galleries that everything else devolved into.

But, back on the current subject here.

[Stworca]

Well the disabled ship, where you get IFF had some nice locations too. I roleplayed it heavily on getting out as swiftly as possible, and found myself surrounded very often.

E : Ah yes, the current subject.

Assuming the last cut-scene in ME2 is legit, the reapers are slowly drifting onward, possibly towards earth, which i'd say doesn't make too much sense..

1. Their presence is known, there is no time for slowly drifting sessions. Unless they wiped out Protheans by exactly the same tactic, and i'm wrong here.
2. There are mass relays everywhere
3. Why would their other "agents" summon them in middle of nowhere
4. Sov was much faster than any other ship during Citadel battle

[Rad]

1. Their presence is known, there is no time for slowly drifting sessions. Unless they wiped out Protheans by exactly the same tactic, and i'm wrong here.

There is no way they could travel from their current location to anywhere in the galaxy in a reasonable amount of time, even with their built in FTL drives. That is the reason the Mass Relays exist, since ship FTL drives just can't go fast enough to travel beyond the cluster of stars near the relays in a reasonable amount of time.

2. There are mass relays everywhere

I think it's a matter of power. The Citadel Relay would have to be much more powerful than a standard relay to reach that far, it would explain why your path "chains" from relay to relay on the galaxy map when you travel from cluster to cluster.

3. Why would their other "agents" summon them in middle of nowhere

Because it would allow them to gather their strength and move out in force without risk of discovery. That's actually kind of a silly reason, since ONE Reaper is neigh-invincible, what do a whole bunch have to worry about? It would just be one more plot hole in a game full of them

4. Sov was much faster than any other ship during Citadel battle

Of course. Sovereign, and Reapers in general, have much bigger mass effect cores, and, while they are based on the same technology, are much more advanced.

[Stworca]

There is no way they could travel from their current location to anywhere in the galaxy in a reasonable amount of time, even with their built in FTL drives. That is the reason the Mass Relays exist, since ship FTL drives just can't go fast enough to travel beyond the cluster of stars near the relays in a reasonable amount of time.

Aye,, but in the cut scene they are slowly drifting. I didn't say that it takes them too long to arrive, just that they don't seem to be in a hurry, especially when we consider point 4. That Sov was much faster than any other ship.

"So yeah, guys, Sovereign was destroyed and some of them know about our presence.. shouldn't we.. speed up?"
"Chill out man and have some more weed"

I'm beign picky now, i know. Edit : But.. this is just a crazy idea right here.. what if one of "safe" races are also their agents? The wall-mart alliens for example, their lack of emotions would fit. perfectly.
Or is it the keepers that keep notifying them about council dismissing claims of reaper existance..?

Or are they perhaps overtaken by pride and trust in their power? The reaper that controlled the collectors seemed very sure of their victory, and didn't seem to care that Collectors got wiped out and their presence was known... Even though from what i remember the main part of reaper plan was surprise and swiftness. Taking out the citadel to cut out all comminications and wiping worlds out one by one, with no fleet to threaten them.

Am i missing something here?

[Rad]

But.. this is just a crazy idea right here.. what if one of "safe" races are also their agents? The wall-mart alliens for example, their lack of emotions would fit. perfectly.
Or is it the keepers that keep notifying them about council dismissing claims of reaper existance..?

Honestly, I would bet my money on the Turians being indoctrinated. Not all of them, but at least those in positions of power. They are the ones who always deny the existence of the Reapers, always get in Sheps way, etc. I've seen a bit of the current "Evolution" comic series and it makes even more sense.

[Stworca]

My first thought was the turian councilor, however Destiny Ascension is attacked like crazy in ME1, and he's on board.

Now, i understand that this could be a diversion, sacrifice a few turians so that alliance helps them and does not attack sovereign straight away.. That's how i got the story the first time i played. Turians beign the weak link made sense.

But would the other councilors really be that blind? What are the requirements to become a councilor? Blindness, IQ below average and a universal translating device?

With this beign said, i don't want Turians to turn out to be another species of agents. It's too predictable and cheap.

[Rad]

My first thought was the turian councilor, however Destiny Ascension is attacked like crazy in ME1, and he's on board.

Since when have the Reapers had a problem sacrificing a pawn for the greater plan? Besides, at that point it looked like Sovereign was going to succeed.

But would the other councilors really be that blind? What are the requirements to become a councilor? Blindness, IQ below average and a universal translating device?

They are politicians. The answer is "Yes".

With this beign said, i don't want Turians to turn out to be another species of agents. It's too predictable and cheap.

Which, unfortunately, is pretty much how Bioware operates these days.

[Stworca]

Speaking of Bioware..

I hope they won't ruin ME3 by releasing too much footage pre-launch, like they did with the prequel (death sequence, collector attacks, return of Williams - as a non-joinable, Garrus and Tali as joinable and much more spoilers), and like they seem to be doing with Dragon Age 2 (promotion : one million people download and play the demo)

Any spoilers at any point will ruin everything.

[Rad]

I hope they won't ruin ME3 by releasing too much footage pre-launch, like they did with the prequel (death sequence, collector attacks, return of Williams - as a non-joinable, Garrus and Tali as joinable and much more spoilers), and like they seem to be doing with Dragon Age 2 (promotion : one million people download and play the demo)

I agree. It's like a trailer for a movie where it shows all these good scenes, and makes the movie look great, but it turns out those are the only good scenes.

They should leave things as they stand, with the trailer they have shown. They WON'T, but it would be nice if they did...