I've played plenty of games with crafting: Drakensang RoT, Oblivion, DA:O, etc. The thing is, I never do any more than make health/fatigue/mana potions. No stat buff potions, no poisons, nothing.
I know about everything you can do with them, I've just never felt, or had, a reason to do so.
Am I missing something? Am I alone in this attitude, or is this more the norm?
Crafting...what am I missing
It depends on a game I guess. In Oblivion I made other potions besides the health and magicka ones. Used poison a lot when playing a rogue type. Also fortify strength on my rogue whenever I had too much stuff to carry. Restore attributes potions were useful. Shield potions were useful. On a warrior I used to make Night Eye potions to help in dungeons.
In DA:O though I stuck pretty much to health and mana potions.
And never played Drakesang, so can't speak for that.
So I guess it depends on the game.
In DA:O though I stuck pretty much to health and mana potions.
And never played Drakesang, so can't speak for that.
So I guess it depends on the game.
The problem I have, is that I'm terribly stingy on consumable items, so I only craft either permanent stuff, or really good stuff. And I hardly use the good stuff, because I always think that the next encounter will be more difficult still and needs the item even more.
Hence, I wind up with lots of good consumable items and a lot of frustration. Often, mana or health potions are so easy to come by, that I don't mind using them.
Hence, I wind up with lots of good consumable items and a lot of frustration. Often, mana or health potions are so easy to come by, that I don't mind using them.
So, for you, crafting is just something that companies like to throw in and crow about it as a "feature", but it really doesn't add anything tangible.GawainBS wrote:The problem I have, is that I'm terribly stingy on consumable items, so I only craft either permanent stuff, or really good stuff. And I hardly use the good stuff, because I always think that the next encounter will be more difficult still and needs the item even more.
Hence, I wind up with lots of good consumable items and a lot of frustration. Often, mana or health potions are so easy to come by, that I don't mind using them.
Would that be a correct statement?
No. It's just my playstyle to avoid being dependent on limited resources. If I can craft, for example, a very good spear in a game, I won't hesitate to do so. However, spending the gold/resources on STR boost potion, is something I probably wouldn't do, since I'd always hesitate to use that potion, out of fear that I might run out of them out a time that I need them more.
Crafting systems in games differ too much to generalize their usefulness. Some games, plenty useful. Other ones? A feature.
Crafting systems in games differ too much to generalize their usefulness. Some games, plenty useful. Other ones? A feature.
For myself, a lot depends on the implementation, and the game style. Personally, I really enjoy crafting. I play both SP RPGs and MMOs, and I craft heavily in both when it is feasible. How a game chooses to implement crafting, and the relevance of crafted items, varies a lot however.
First, you have to consider what crafting is. MMOs often have an in-depth multi-tiered crafting system involving harvesting of raw materials, creation of simple items, creation of complex items, and so on. Part of the point of this system is that no one character can do everything, which encourages more social interaction. In SP games a lot of these systems are simplified or ignored such that alchemy is the only crafting option.
Still, do you consider Diablo's rune system to be crafting? What about Oblivion's spell crafting and enchanting? Deus Ex's, STALKER's, and Fallout's repair and modification systems? Two Worlds's item combination/ breakdown system? Gothic's skinning systems? At what point does the dungeon crawl loot-sell-buy system of improving gear become loot-craft-have better gear? Are these light crafting systems, or just putting a new spin on an old formula.
Second, you have to look at what the goal of crafting is. In most MMOs, crafting will produce the best non-raid gear in the game. In many SP games, the effects of crafted items are cosmetic at best. In DA:O and Diablo you stick to health/ mana potions because anything else you might craft won't have a realistic affect. Who care about a 10% fire resist potion that lasts 30 seconds when a single boss combat may take five minutes and you mow through trash fights?
The Witcher had a decent alchemy system, especially if you played on higher difficulty levels. Potions gave the ability to see in the dark or counter stealth/ invisibility, to permanently increase stats and acquire special skills, to ward against special attacks and damage types, and so on. The game is very clear about how these work. This potion cures poison and makes you temporarily immune, the basilisk has a poisonous attack, so use this potion before/ during/ after such a combat as needed. The game even tells you at the difficulty selection screen that reliance on alchemy is necessary at higher difficulty levels.
Alchemy, spellcraft, and enchanting were of amazing versatility and usefullness in Daggerfall and Morrowind, and of good (but not quite as great) utility in Oblivion. Custom spells and enchanted gear could help deal with a lot of problems, such as putting small of amounts of different elemental damages on a weapon to deal with enchanted creatures without carrying half a dozen equipment sets, and special items could deal with all sorts of special situations. Teleportation, levitation, encumbrance reduction, there are all sorts of special effects and weird situations in which you can use them.
A lot comes down to how the game designers want you to experience the game. In open world/ sand box games, designers give you tools and you decide what to do with them, so crafting is usually one such tool. In story driven games, designers want you to go from point A to point B, and to have some idea how you will get there and what your character will be like, so crafting only expedites the journey.
If you want to experiment with what crafting can really do, my suggestion would be to get a copy of Morrowind (Steam has the GoTY for $20, but if you wait for a sale it might drop to half that or lower), download (or cheat-create) a high level character, and explore some of the weird options. Try creating a mage who never walks, only floats. Try a thief who jumps off buildings. Try a warrior with armour which reduces his carry weight to the point that he can clear out a dungeon. How about a ranged spell that causes the target to emit light, so you can see them in the dark? If, after playing around, you aren't having fun, then don't worry about it; crafting isn't for everyone. Even done well, crafting is a specialised play-style for players who want versatility, not a secret button for winning the game faster or easier.
First, you have to consider what crafting is. MMOs often have an in-depth multi-tiered crafting system involving harvesting of raw materials, creation of simple items, creation of complex items, and so on. Part of the point of this system is that no one character can do everything, which encourages more social interaction. In SP games a lot of these systems are simplified or ignored such that alchemy is the only crafting option.
Still, do you consider Diablo's rune system to be crafting? What about Oblivion's spell crafting and enchanting? Deus Ex's, STALKER's, and Fallout's repair and modification systems? Two Worlds's item combination/ breakdown system? Gothic's skinning systems? At what point does the dungeon crawl loot-sell-buy system of improving gear become loot-craft-have better gear? Are these light crafting systems, or just putting a new spin on an old formula.
Second, you have to look at what the goal of crafting is. In most MMOs, crafting will produce the best non-raid gear in the game. In many SP games, the effects of crafted items are cosmetic at best. In DA:O and Diablo you stick to health/ mana potions because anything else you might craft won't have a realistic affect. Who care about a 10% fire resist potion that lasts 30 seconds when a single boss combat may take five minutes and you mow through trash fights?
The Witcher had a decent alchemy system, especially if you played on higher difficulty levels. Potions gave the ability to see in the dark or counter stealth/ invisibility, to permanently increase stats and acquire special skills, to ward against special attacks and damage types, and so on. The game is very clear about how these work. This potion cures poison and makes you temporarily immune, the basilisk has a poisonous attack, so use this potion before/ during/ after such a combat as needed. The game even tells you at the difficulty selection screen that reliance on alchemy is necessary at higher difficulty levels.
Alchemy, spellcraft, and enchanting were of amazing versatility and usefullness in Daggerfall and Morrowind, and of good (but not quite as great) utility in Oblivion. Custom spells and enchanted gear could help deal with a lot of problems, such as putting small of amounts of different elemental damages on a weapon to deal with enchanted creatures without carrying half a dozen equipment sets, and special items could deal with all sorts of special situations. Teleportation, levitation, encumbrance reduction, there are all sorts of special effects and weird situations in which you can use them.
A lot comes down to how the game designers want you to experience the game. In open world/ sand box games, designers give you tools and you decide what to do with them, so crafting is usually one such tool. In story driven games, designers want you to go from point A to point B, and to have some idea how you will get there and what your character will be like, so crafting only expedites the journey.
If you want to experiment with what crafting can really do, my suggestion would be to get a copy of Morrowind (Steam has the GoTY for $20, but if you wait for a sale it might drop to half that or lower), download (or cheat-create) a high level character, and explore some of the weird options. Try creating a mage who never walks, only floats. Try a thief who jumps off buildings. Try a warrior with armour which reduces his carry weight to the point that he can clear out a dungeon. How about a ranged spell that causes the target to emit light, so you can see them in the dark? If, after playing around, you aren't having fun, then don't worry about it; crafting isn't for everyone. Even done well, crafting is a specialised play-style for players who want versatility, not a secret button for winning the game faster or easier.
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laclongquan
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Try older stuffs
Try Might and Magic 8 Days of Destroyer, yet? It has a system of potion brewing (alchemy) and item crafting. Pretty good designs.
You can buy potions of course, but lots of really useful ones are rare to find in shops. And the most precious, the black potions, are impossible to find. So you brew your own. And since you brew your own there's no need to be stingy with your homemade moonshines, eh? Play alchemist help immensely.
Same deal with item/weapon/armor crafting. You use smiths to make them from ores with varying results. Then you bless them by your own power also with random result. Experiment for the win!
All in all MM8 is one of the best game in term of crafting.
Try Might and Magic 8 Days of Destroyer, yet? It has a system of potion brewing (alchemy) and item crafting. Pretty good designs.
You can buy potions of course, but lots of really useful ones are rare to find in shops. And the most precious, the black potions, are impossible to find. So you brew your own. And since you brew your own there's no need to be stingy with your homemade moonshines, eh? Play alchemist help immensely.
Same deal with item/weapon/armor crafting. You use smiths to make them from ores with varying results. Then you bless them by your own power also with random result. Experiment for the win!
All in all MM8 is one of the best game in term of crafting.
