Just finished ToB with an assassin...

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:14 am

I haven't played ToB in years and I wanted to play through it using my assassin from BG2. I was going a more evil party route I guess using Korgan, Sarevok, Viconia, Jaheira, Edwin and then myself (Pure Elven Assassin) Now I'm not the greatest player by any means but I was really disappointed with my assassin in ToB. It really seems to be more of a niche class that either works great or barely at all. Most of the opponents I came across were either immune to backstab, poison, or both. This in turn made my character just stand back and use his Tugian Bow and do very little damage. I was very well geared at this point too but it just seemed my assassin didn't contribute much especially compared to the likes of Sarevok and Korgan while under the influence of Greater Whirlwind...yikes! So anyways, I guess this is more of minor rant in which I apologize. I've been looking into your basic fighter/thief, kensai/thief, or some kind of mage hybrid to maybe try next. Hopefully they will fare better.

p.s. I've also read about people using a dual class Assassin/fighter or Assassin/Cleric. If the level cap is 40 and you raise your level to 21 in assassin before dueling how will your get assassin levels back?

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:18 am

You think this is bad? In modded BG2 everyone is immune to everything, and some classes (like assassin) are no fun whatsoever.

Oh, and gratz on finishing the game i guess?

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:44 am

Ouch, that doesn't sound like fun at all. Yea I just think the assassin has a small niche that it fills very well but outside of that it's pretty weak. Now it might just be that I suck...:laugh: I'm not a huge fan of dual class especially dueling late in the game. I either want to duel very early or not use it all. Now the assassin was alot more fun in BG2 SoA. You didn't have as many backstab immune monsters as well as a ton of monsters that can see through stealth. I dunno maybe the assassin is better used just in SoA.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:45 am

Dual classing at late levels is mostly reserved for xp-cap removed games.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:53 am

That's what I figured and I assumed dual class assassin/fighter and anything similar were probably solo characters which might be fun to try as well. I've never done the game solo. How do you even remove the XP cap?

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:56 am

The safest way to remove xp cap is with a mod like "G3tweaks" or "Ease-of-use".

There are other ways to do it, but it takes too long to even explain them. Basically doing the same what the mods do, but manually. Not recommended.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:20 am

I just realized I've got the G3 tweaks pack with the XP cap removed. Geesh, I'm not too bright this fine Monday morning.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:16 am

For 21 assassin levels you need "only" 2,420,000 XP, leaving still 5,580,000 XP within the 8,000,000 XP cap, enough for 30 fighter or 32 cleric levels, just don't expect to benefit from dualclassing in a normal game with a party of 6.

Most players play BG2 as a "selfish" game which is about powergaming one character who has to be able to keep up with NPCs like Sarevok in any situation.
Players who consider BG2 as party game where everone has to fulfill a role might like the assassin more since he can do exactly this. He can take care of locks and traps, set traps, scout and take out some enemies fast, while other party members can melee better.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:54 am

cbarchuk wrote:Now I'm not the greatest player by any means but I was really disappointed with my assassin in ToB. It really seems to be more of a niche class that either works great or barely at all.

that was more or less my impression of the class, when you could set up a backstab - devastating. when you could set a few traps and lure an enemy in - devastating. mages who didn't have their protections up yet / just dispelled were especially vulnerable to a backstab. it was always a good feeling to chunk them in the first few seconds then letting the party tanks & casters play mop up.

they are also dependent on management, using stealth, traps, situational invisibility & hla use.

as an example, the sewer fight, the assassin can trap the tunnel, sneak in and eliminate the mage directly. then run back towards the traps, which fire off and damage the now charging enemy fighters, then the rest of your party engages and destroys them. - the assassin may not have dealt the most damage in that encounter (or racked up the most kills) but still played that crucial role in tipping the scales - and "masterminded" the entire encounter.

but in some of the more direct boss type fights, not a whole lot to write home about.

like kmonster said - the assassin can be a great team player, but that also means "letting" the korgans & saravoks of the world shine in some situations.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:42 am

I think you guys really hit the nail on the head. I guess I need to look at it from a party perspective and not just as an individual character. Like you said Koz, when my assassin shined it was great but when he couldn't do much it kind of sucked. But that's the way it works I guess. Thanks again Kmonster for the heads up on the XP. I was only thinking of the individual level not the amount.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:53 pm

I always thought that Assassin was a great class. I've soloed it twice, at least. It's really not that bad, but you do have to rely on hit-and-run tactics a lot. Your traps are really powerful and can deliver some serious damage, not to mention your poison - wow, what an ability. Total mage killer... and well, a killer for anyone that's not immune to it. If you stack it, your enemies will die without being able to move or attack (due to the constantly triggering damage animation).

The only time you have trouble is when an opponent is immune to backstab (golems) or can see through invisibility (demons). The demons aren't a problem, you can just melee them to death. The golems on the other hand are something that your warrior-strength simulacrum would take care of.

Honestly, I've never really had trouble with an assassin. I've even went through the game without investing in Spike Traps, due to them being incredibly cheap. However, I usually buy a lot of scrolls and potions to use on difficult boss fights.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:27 pm

Cren,

Can you give me some tips on what scrolls you used alot of as well as weapons and tactics? I was using the short sword of mask and the tugian bow. I generally tried to backstab if I could and then switched to the bow and used poison. I assume you more or less did the same thing. But you also mentioned using alot of scrolls. I didn't really do that much. Sorry to ask you such a broad question but I really like the class as well but I guess I'm just not playing it tactically enough. So any insight you or anyone else could give me would be great. Thanks

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:15 am

Like I said before, I like to use the hit and run tactics, backstab, then run away and hide and so forth.

The best weapons are those with high damage, of course. So you want to look for weapons with high modifiers (+4, +5, +6, +9). So from the very start we can take a look at Short Sword of Mask +4 and the Staff of Striking. In the end, you want to end up with: Staff of the Ram +6, Staff of the Magi (for Spell Shield and invisibility) and The Equalizer, against evil opponents.

You can use the bow to disable opponents from a distance. You can use your poison ability multiple times for additive effects.

As for potions, use those that add to damage, add armor and of course give you spell immunity.

Utilize items that have an ability (Ilbratha +1 for its Mirror Image for instance). As for scrolls, use them when you need to, or use them from your simulacrum. Also, give wands a go. They're not as potent as they were in BG1, but they do give you an advantage over the enemy.

I primarily use scrolls that buff you. So Mislead (unlimited backstabs), Tenser's Transformation, Shapechange, Mirror Image, Stone Skin and so forth. It's usually a good idea to keep all of your scrolls though, just in case.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:35 am

Thanks for the reply. Now if the target is immune to poison and backstab do you just cast mislead and melee them to death or switch to the strongest bow you have and attack from ranged?
Oh and btw, how in the hell did play through the game without using spike traps? I assume to played through ToB this way too? If so..wow, I'm impressed!

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:01 am

Well, after you can use any item, you can equip other weapons, such as the Crom Fayer against Golems, Wave against fire elementals and the Mace of Disruption for undead and so forth.

Alternatively, you can equip dual weapons and use your simulacrum (through Vhalior's Helm) to cast from scrolls. So you can have him cast Shapechange, transform into a Wolfwere, cast Improved Haste and then finish off with Tenser's Transformation and there's your warrior/tank.

Spike Traps are too cheesy for me. Instead I invested in the Evasion skills and the Time Trap spell (for fun).