Best Solo class and 6-man party?

Sramsay12 · Post by **Sramsay12** » Wed May 18, 2011 4:20 am

Hey guys, I'm going solo on BG2. I would like to do both SoA and ToB this way, but I haven't finished either. yet. First, is there a way I can import a new character into an already begun adventure?
Is it a better idea to do a full party adventure first time?
I like thieves. What are the best solo classes? Swashbuckler, Sorcerer etc. but I need a challenge that is fun too. Help!

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:06 am

I wouldn't even include F/M/T, unless you remove xp capp, and if you do, what's the point anyway? (also F/M/C is somewhat more interesting).

Now, obviously my vote is for sorcerer. You can win every fight. You can do so without cheese, or with if you like. You survive nuclear explosions, and deploy ICBM's of your own. You can solo every single vanilla encounter, as well as all modded ones.

Now obviously people will come up with some crazy "Ranger/Cleric" or "Kensai/Mage" ideas. Where you : "Take mage class to work around kensai restrictions", or "Ranger/Cleric can cast both types of spells". That is true, these classes are amazing. But first of all, that's including cheese incarnate tactics, and second of all, Sorcerer is better anyway

If you're looking for "fun", then a spellcasting class is the obvious choice. Thieves (assassin, swash & co) while nice, get boring very fast.

With this being said, 6 man party is how the game is supposed to be played, preferably with bioware NPC"s. It's much more fun and if you play an ironman game - more challenging! Ahoy

Last, but not least, vanilla BG2 is not a good ground to name the "best" class. Seeing as you can beat all fights in ridiculous, game-breaking ways with ANY class.

bonemn · Post by **bonemn** » Wed May 18, 2011 4:01 pm

6-man party

Solo or 6-man party depends, what do you really want to do in the game. You can go solo almost with every class, there´s always a way to beat the game. Though it can be hard sometimes. But if you play with a party of NPC´s, you´ll get xp from their quest, you have more options/tactics in fights and with the storyline of the game it´s great fun.

I was thinking about soloing a kensai/mage or kensai/thief, but more i think about it I´ll probably create two PC´s and will play with a party of six.

But the best class in my opinion is the wizard. (I just don´t like the sorcerer class) But spellcasters are in BG2+ToB really great fun!!!

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:41 pm

I recommend an half-elf fighter/mage/thief. You'll have a perfect fighter, a perfect thief and powerful mage spells for buffing, protecting and lots of extra options to handle hard fights.

Without fighter levels you'll only get 1 base attack per round (13+ fighter levels grant 2.5) which can make battles unnecessarily slow, by casting "improved haste" you can double your attacks per round.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Sat May 21, 2011 1:31 pm

Well,

Since you did say "solo" I will say the F/M/T.

My preference is the 6 member primarily because I like the interaction and side quests.

Jared4224 · Post by **Jared4224** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:37 pm

I'm gonna start my reply with a very bold statement :

The blade (IMO) is the most powerful character in the game.

I know.. I know, Kensai's are good, FMT are great, Sorcerer's are Demigod's, but never underestimate the power of the loveable Blade.

:laugh:

When you get out of Jon's Dungeon (This CAN be done is about 5 minutes) the blade has made it to the promised land. With pickpocketing (Potions Of Master Thievery), your character will get very rich, very fast. With all the money you get, pay Gaelen & get the amulet of power, then start hunting down items like boots of speed, + 1 Thaco gauntlets, Belm + 2, Green Ioun stone, etc... Try to collect items that boost your thaco, you'll need all you can get. By the time you have decked your solo Blade out in the best equipment you can find, start grinding. Memorize such spells like Magic Missiles, Mirror Image, Melf's, Skull Trap, Fire Arrow, Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Spider Spawn, etc. Always remember summoning spells are very powerful. Especially Wyvern Call (hasted). :mischief: Make sure you save high level spells so you can use them when things get hairy. Once you get UAI, a thousand possibilities present themselves. Not only can you use some very deadly traps, you get such a items as Robe of Venca, Scarlet Ninja - To, Shield Of Balduran, Helm of Balduran etc.

Your Blade now has a near Fighter level Thaco, has a bunch of immunities, can summon a horde of monster's & demon's, can throw out Finger's of death, can set Time, Spike, & Exploding traps, & is just too fun to Role play

Right I've said my piece, feel free to contradict me if you wish.
Also, have fun with it!

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:42 am

Everything you mentioned for the blade can be done with the F/M/T too (and even more things). So why exactly do you consider the blade superior ?

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:53 am

kmonster wrote:Everything you mentioned for the blade can be done with the F/M/T too (and even more things). So why exactly do you consider the blade superior ?

Because it does not require millions upon millions of xp to do anything, and xp capp removed to top other classes, also defensive and offensive spin top F/M/T

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:53 am

Stworca wrote:Because it does not require millions upon millions of xp to do anything, and xp capp removed to top other classes, also defensive and offensive spin top F/M/T

The F/M/T is powerful from the beginning. He starts out with better thac0, more attacks, broader equipment choice, more spells and better thieving skills and improves even faster than the blade. After reaching fighter level 7 at only 192,000 XP he'll have the attack power the blade needs offensive spin for permanently and will continue. Early game comparisons look very bad for the bard who can't even wear a helmet or set a trap without ToB HLAs. Only when he reaches 16+ he has a spellcasting advantage for some time which is easily overcompensated by the bigger attack power and the ability to backstab, set traps and use other thieving skills.

At the XP Cap the triple-class will be a perfect fighter, a perfect thief and have access to high level mage spells. Compared to the blade he has better saving throws, all thief options available, access to level 7 and 8 spells, 20:17 HLAs (and far more options to choose), better thac0 (+8), permanent +2 damage and far more attacks per round (2.5 vs 1). Even if you rest after every fight in order to use offensive spin permanently the blade would still have 6 thac0 and half an attack less per round (don't even think about the whirlwinds the F/M/T could take as HLAs to get 10 attacks per round).
The F/M/T has many ways to protect himself even without defensive spin which isn't even as useful the access to level 7-8 spells.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Mon May 23, 2011 10:35 am

Wait.. Tri-class characters get HLA's too? Who thought it's a good idea?

Jared4224 · Post by **Jared4224** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:55 pm

The reason the Blade is superior to the FMT is that with the experience cap, the FMT's will just be to low leveled to be considered "superior" to the Blade. The Blade is also powerful at low levels, though I tend to treat him like a Thief/Mage for the first couple of levels. I do agree though that the FMT is powerful, I just think the Blade (in the end) will still be more powerful then any FMT. Not only that, but you also have to take into account Offensive & Defensive Spin. :mischief: But what really makes the Blade "Better" than the FMT is the role playing value...

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed May 25, 2011 5:36 pm

For the majority of the game, the Blade outclasses the F/M/T, and in Baldur's Gate I, the bard is the absolute best class in the game. If you finish ToSC, and hit the level cap, the Blade can cast level 4 spells right away, while the F/M/T has to wait for some time. Also, at level 20, the Blade's spells reach full potential, while the F/M/T will never have that luxury. Because of the fact that the ToSC bard can cast level 4 spells, he would have a better defense, due to Spirit Armor and a better weapon choice (right off the bat) due to Enchanted Weapon, which count as +3. So, in combat, the Blade would get +3 THAC0 from these weapons and another +2 THAC0 (and damage) from Offensive Spin while making 3 attacks per round without using up level 3 slots. While THAC0 is important early game, with Tenser's Transformation, both of them have enough THAC0 to hit anything that comes their way.

Personally, I never really utilize the traps - there's no real point to them as, even if you have dragon fights in mind, you're able to beat them early on with the nice selection of wands that you find in Irenicus's dungeon. While the Blade is free to make money through selling and buying from fences, and recharging wands for free, the F/M/T does not have that luxury - he must spend his skill points on Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Detect Illusions and Set Traps.

It's true that the F/M/T has greater attack power and more health, but with the right equipment, they are able to match in terms of attack speed - both having 10 attacks per round with Improved Haste, and then meeting at the same place in regards to damage when using Tenser's. The biggest advantage that the F/M/T has is survivability, or, access to Hardiness. The ability to cast level 7 and 8 spells is hardly important, as the only spells that you really need are: Spell Sequencer, Simulacrum and Spell Trigger. Simulacrum is available through Vhalior's Helm, so we can count it out, and the other two can be used for either spamming spells or stacking Tenser's. As such, the only spell levels that really matter are 1-6, and then, level 9 is what makes mages and sorcerers so powerful. Because of the multiclass, the F/M/T doesn't get the level that makes mages so overpowered, though that's not to say that the other spells don't matter, because they definitely do.

We should also note that after the Blade can cast level 6 spells, Offensive Spin has less uses, as that 1 attack per round *can* go to waste, depending on weapon choice, however, this gives you the freedom to use Defensive Spin, which gives you -11 AC, and, if you have Freedom, it doesn't root you in place.

Backstab is a good tool for hit and run fights, though with the power of the characters in sustained fights, the only advantage that it gives you is the use of Assassination. While the F/M/T can exploit Mislead to have multiple backstabs, the Blade can do the same to stack songs. Also, the later into the game you progress, the less potent your backstab and stealth become, as such, you must sacrifice either an item slot for Non-Detection or a level three slot for the spell, which can be dispelled.

Yes, the F/M/T may have certain advantages over a Blade, but a lot of them can be deemed as unnecessary. As such, the two main advantages that the F/M/T has are Hardiness and the ability to achieve ten attacks per round with any weapon. If you ask me, the F/M/C is better than the F/M/T in almost every way.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed May 25, 2011 6:37 pm

Crenshinibon wrote: While the Blade is free to make money through selling and buying from fences, and recharging wands for free, the F/M/T does not have that luxury - he must spend his skill points on Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Detect Illusions and Set Traps.

You must be joking.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:59 pm

The ability to cast level 7 and 8 spells is hardly important

Blasphemy.

With most other things i agree.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed May 25, 2011 11:29 pm

kmonster:

In order to make your argument about pre-HLA traps valid, the Thief must dish out a hundred out of a possible 565 skill points towards Set Traps. Since this is pre-HLA, let's say he spends a hundred out of 365 (165 at character creation and 200 from then until three million experience). Now, since you want to backstab, the remaining value would go into Hide in Shadows and Move Silently (since I'm assuming that you'd use Knock instead of Pick Locks since as a solo character, you have all the experience you could ever want). Well, that is unless you use Invisibility or potions. I'm only guessing here, so I would like to know how you allocate your points. I bring up the matter of wands primarily because they are essential to my playstyle, ever since the original Baldur's Gate, so having constant access to them is important to me.

I know it's small, but it's something to consider. Personally, I never really use traps anymore, ever since I found how cheesy they were, but that's just me.

Stworca:

For me, the most important spells (in no order) at those levels are:

Level 7:

Project Image
Limited Wish (you only need the scroll though)
Spell Sequencer (this is only a personal preference as I like to cast my spells quickly)

Level 8:

Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (loses a lot without access to Chain Contingency)
Simulacrum (Vhalior's Helm)

You can use scrolls through a Simulacrum just as well.

I'm going under the assumption that the player is asking about a vanilla playthrough, not one that is modded.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:01 am

Mordenkeinen Sword is THE BOMB of level 7 spells. It's the single best defensive spell in entire arcane arsenal. PFMW protects for 4 rounds, morden sword for 20.

Project Image is the most potent spell cheese-wise (You like cheese from what i've seen) having two clones of yourself unleash hell from never-ending spellbook defines Kaas. Yup, you've mentioned it, but it's more potent than most believe.

Have you by any chance forgotten about Ruby Ray of Reversal?

Incen Cloud is the single most damaging spell in game. Beats even horrid willing. Ofcourse if used for full duration. Naturally you will not damage Firkraag with it, but clouds are most of the time topping non-clouds.

Last, but not least, Spell Trigger (8) should be taken

Ahoy

Now, even with the above F/M/T is more than likely inferior to das blade, due to experience needed to get to mentioned above spells. Having to do every pitiful quest to gain "an edge".
With this being said, all the 'backstabb' builds loose their power as story progresses, with creatures gaining immunity left and right. This is why basic thief class is often reduced to UAI and trap opening.
Which makes two-class Fighter-Mages much more appealing than the tri-class abomination.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu May 26, 2011 12:27 pm

I don't understand why you say the F/M/T would level too slowly to be effective here.
A solo F/M/T who gets XP for locks, traps and scroll scribing will level extremely fast. Just compare it to a normal game with a party of 6:

He'll be able to backstab for quintuple damage before a normal character would reach 330,000 XP
He'll get the first HLA before a normal character would reach 500,000 XP.
He'll have the maximum number of base attacks per round possible in the game for all classes before a normal character would reach 625,000 XP.
He'll be able to cast level 7 spell before a normal character would reach 750,000 XP.
He'll be able to cast level 8 spell before a normal character would reach 1,125,000 XP.
He'll reach the XPCap, be a perfect thief a perfect fighter, a mage with access to level 8 spells and have 20 HLAs before a normal character would reach 1,333,333 XP.

Crenshinibon wrote:In order to make your argument about pre-HLA traps valid, the Thief must dish out a hundred out of a possible 565 skill points towards Set Traps. Since this is pre-HLA, let's say he spends a hundred out of 365 (165 at character creation and 200 from then until three million experience). Now, since you want to backstab, the remaining value would go into Hide in Shadows and Move Silently (since I'm assuming that you'd use Knock instead of Pick Locks since as a solo character, you have all the experience you could ever want). Well, that is unless you use Invisibility or potions. I'm only guessing here, so I would like to know how you allocate your points.

Thieves don't have to spend 100 skill points in a skill to reach 100 there. Thieving skills have a base value, stat modifiers, racial modifiers and armor modifiers.
You only have to put 85 skill points into pickpocket to become as good as a level 16-40 bard.
With 18 dex you only need 95 skill points to get 100 in set traps.
You can backstab without raising stealth skills, failed hiding attempts before a battle can be repeated and you have plenty of time to backstab until you have to make a ms check. With all the positive modifiers (half-elf, 18 dex, no armor) sharing 100 skill points among those 2 skills is more than enough for very comfortable backstabbing.

I'd start a F/M/T with about 70 skill in find traps and open locks since being able to handle this stuff does increase the game playing quality a lot.
Very early in the game at thief level 11 you can have 70 OL, 70 FT, 95 ST, 100 PP and still 40 skill points left for stealth and additional thief levels will follow fast. When using the DUHM special ability you'll have at the beginning even lower skills (like 80 ST or 50 OL) can be perfect early in the game.

Your playstyle seems to depend heavily on recharging wands for free via steal and resell abuse. You don't need much pickpocketing skill for this, you only have to to drink a few potions of master thievery once and abuse until you've more money than you'll ever need in the game.

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