Does anyone NOT like the kensai/thief?

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Thu May 26, 2011 9:36 pm

I guess this is a ridiculous question but I currently have a kensai13/thief9 and I'm really not enjoying him that much. I know he'll be better once he reaches level 14 and gets his kensai abilities back. But even then, the idea that I can't wear any armor till I reach level 24 just seems grueling to me. I kind of feel like I have to wait till way late in the game to finally see what this character is like. Honestly I enjoyed my assassin much more. Call me crazy I guess.:laugh:

UPDATE: Yea I think a fighter/thief might be the way to go for me. I'm now kensai13/thief10 and it has been pure babysitting. I can't even use ranged weapons. I thought as a pure thief, I would be able to but the weapon restrictions of the kensai even apply to my dual class. So outside of landing the occasional backstab, my dude is straight strugglin'. I know I'm speaking blasphemy but I'm just not diggin' this character. I know he'll eventually be ridiculously powerful but the eventually part is what I don't like or have the patience for. I think I might just do a fighter/thief multi or try the kensai/mage since that dual class makes more sense to me as he can still wear robes and has stoneskin, mirror image etc...Sorry for the rant.

Teaboar · Post by **Teaboar** » Fri May 27, 2011 8:45 am

This is the same reason I'm not a big fan of dual-classing myself, especially at level 13 or later, because you'll end up being stuck with a very sub-par character for a large portion of the game (the best portion imho I might add).

Not to mention that if you play an unmodded game, once you eventually do get your levels back you're often left with a ridiculously strong character that makes the rest of the game too easy and therefore boring. Then again, this is just my opinion.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Fri May 27, 2011 4:33 pm

Yep, I agree. I'm surprised anyone else agreed with me. I expected to be burned at the stake!:laugh:

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Fri May 27, 2011 4:51 pm

I don't like thieves as "power class" in BG2.

They provide an "edge" in a fight with backstabs, invisibility and co. But enemies that require such edge are immune to backstabs, see invisible.
Bounty Hunters have nice traps, but again, it's not very useful. Not many fights allow you to run around setting traps pre-encounter. In most cases it's also extreme, meta-cheese.

Assassins with their poison are used by some to stack it on enemies, and render them unable to use any spells thanks to getting-hit-by-poison animation.. That's too much to even be named cheese... When i've first seen someone mention exploiting this i wondered "why play the game at all..?"

Swashbucklers are the only thieves that i like. They can stand up in a fight without giving them all the protective items in the world.

Most of the time you can go around without a Thief, with just Imoen.

One use for thieves that i did have was Wizard Slayer 7 / Thief archer.

As for mod fights.. Thieves are crap in mod fights. Because their cheesy tactics do not work.

There is one fight in the entire game that calls for a thief (trap disarming), some work around the thief by having xp-capp-removed, extremely buffed characters..
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCCN6OoJoaI&hd=1"]You don't have to be even above 2 000 000 xp, and you do not need thieves even for trap disarming.[/url]

Thieves were amazing in baldur's gate 1 though, and Durlag's Tower without one.. I don't think so, no.

As for dual classes. It's either early, or useless.

How's that for burning at a stake

? To people who are about to strike me with a wall of text explaining how awesome thieves are, and people that are just now writing that dual classing at level 20 is the way to go : No. Thank you.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:03 pm

Stworca wrote:I don't like thieves as "power class" in BG2.

They provide an "edge" in a fight with backstabs, invisibility and co. But enemies that require such edge are immune to backstabs, see invisible.
Bounty Hunters have nice traps, but again, it's not very useful. Not many fights allow you to run around setting traps pre-encounter. In most cases it's also extreme, meta-cheese.

Assassins with their poison are used by some to stack it on enemies, and render them unable to use any spells thanks to getting-hit-by-poison animation.. That's too much to even be named cheese... When i've first seen someone mention exploiting this i wondered "why play the game at all..?"

Swashbucklers are the only thieves that i like. They can stand up in a fight without giving them all the protective items in the world.

Most of the time you can go around without a Thief, with just Imoen.

One use for thieves that i did have was Wizard Slayer 7 / Thief archer.

As for mod fights.. Thieves are crap in mod fights. Because their cheesy tactics do not work.

There is one fight in the entire game that calls for a thief (trap disarming), some work around the thief by having xp-capp-removed, extremely buffed characters..
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCCN6OoJoaI&hd=1"]You don't have to be even above 2 000 000 xp, and you do not need thieves even for trap disarming.[/url]

Thieves were amazing in baldur's gate 1 though, and Durlag's Tower without one.. I don't think so, no.

As for dual classes. It's either early, or useless.

How's that for burning at a stake ? To people who are about to strike me with a wall of text explaining how awesome thieves are, and people that are just now writing that dual classing at level 20 is the way to go : No. Thank you.

Preach it brotha! Now I do like the assassin as well as multi class fighter/thieves but I haven't tried a swashbuckler yet. It's definitely a class I will try out in the future. I also haven't tried any of the new fight mods which I probably won't since I'm simply not that good.:laugh: I find the base game to be hard enough for me so I guess I completely suck which is fine. It's fun and that's all that matters. I appreciate your insight Stworca for sure. Maybe I'll try a just dualing at level 9 or so. Anything later...no thank you as well. Curious Stworca, what is your party composition in your videos. They're great btw. Peace

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:54 am

Well, if you like reading and screenshot viewing, you can find my party composition and everything about them [url="http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81201.0"]here. In my LP.[/url]

If you do not wish to view the LP, a character breakdown was made [url="http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81201.msg2223366#msg2223366"]here.[/url] It's a bit dated, we've advanced somewhat, but gives you a general idea.

Note, that i had no control over party members, as these are characters made by people watching the LP. The Bounty Hunter 13/ Warrior project annoyed me to no end. So did the wild mage with NO constitution (he had 42 hp upon death.. i mean what the...) Thankfully flying spaghetti god has blessed me with two permanent deaths :laugh:

Oi.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sat May 28, 2011 5:59 am

cbarchuk wrote: UPDATE: Yea I think a fighter/thief might be the way to go for me. I'm now kensai13/thief10 and it has been pure babysitting. I can't even use ranged weapons. I thought as a pure thief, I would be able to but the weapon restrictions of the kensai even apply to my dual class. So outside of landing the occasional backstab, my dude is straight strugglin'. I know I'm speaking blasphemy but I'm just not diggin' this character.

right now you are in the worst of it, iirc the k/t can use throwing daggers while still stuck as a thief - other than that, you can set some traps. in this phase the k/t is just a limited thief w/ more hp.

not much else to do until at least k13/t14 - then it flips back to being a kensai w/ thief skills, and silly overpower begins once the abuse any item hla is attained.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:05 am

That's the thing, I realize once I get my kensai levels back and then get 'use any item' HLA this character will be very very strong. I just hate playing through the game with such a gimped character till then. I want to play the whole game with the character I want not just some of it.

P.S. Yo Stworca, how do I get involved in your LP? Sounds like fun and I'll probably learn a thing or two as well.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:09 am

Read the FAQ :laugh: First post

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:32 pm

cbarchuk wrote:That's the thing, I realize once I get my kensai levels back and then get 'use any item' HLA this character will be very very strong. I just hate playing through the game with such a gimped character till then. I want to play the whole game with the character

Agree on all points

I prefer a standard ftr / thief in many cases for ease of use throughout the game. The thief skills will develop a little slower and you may want a trap and lock guy so you can then focus on stealth in the early game, then later begin to master everything. You will also lack some of the kensais punch but you are more consistent throughout. You will also get both hla pools to draw from.

However there are still tradeoffs the multi will lack some hp, can not progress beyond weapon mastery, in general will have fewer points to put towards weapons and will lack the kit bonuses.

cbarchuk · Post by **cbarchuk** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:26 pm

I didn't finish my kensai/thief. The experience just sucked. I don't know what to say. I just didn't enjoy it though I am glad I tried it out. I still think the assassin is the best thief class and the most fun in my opinion. I've played through the game twice with an assassin and once with an elven fighter/thief. The fighter/thief was overall a more effective toe to toe fighter, but the assassin was far more cooler and actually felt like...well...like an assassin. The figher/thief felt more like just a regular warrior. Anyways, just opinion. I haven't tried the swashbuckler yet. I will at some point. Nonetheless, I think the assassin is pretty hip.