RPGs? I think not.
- The Traveller
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RPGs? I think not.
In the spirit of the forum, I'll speak my mind about something that's been bothering me on and off. Computer or console RPGs are not role playing games, in that there is precious little roleplaying in them. In traditional tabletop RPGs, you play a character, and are limited in what you can do only by your imagination. With video games you are forever in someone's sandbox, and the only choices you can make are those that someone else has already thought of.
Don't get me wrong, I love playing video games of whatever sort, but I'm not playing them and thinking "yeah, I'm getting the real roleplaying experience here woo", because I'm not. Bottom line is, tabletop roleplaying (which I hazard many gamers have never experienced) is a completely different buzz to video games.
PC and console games aren't TTRPGs version 2, they are a different thing entirely.
/dons asbestos suit
Don't get me wrong, I love playing video games of whatever sort, but I'm not playing them and thinking "yeah, I'm getting the real roleplaying experience here woo", because I'm not. Bottom line is, tabletop roleplaying (which I hazard many gamers have never experienced) is a completely different buzz to video games.
PC and console games aren't TTRPGs version 2, they are a different thing entirely.
/dons asbestos suit
[url="http://www.codeximaginata.com"]A new tabletop roleplaying game, Codex Imaginata.[/url]
- LastDanceSaloon
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Gamebanshee is a controversial, angry mob of people who disagree with everything anyone writes. Your opinion is invalid, just because you are here. Thus to keep the go... NAME of our forum, i shall disagree with the OP. Here are my arguments :
Computer and console RPGs ARE roleplaying games. You take the role of a specific character, pre-generated character with set history and personality, and play.
The fact that most games offer you no freedom whatsoever is indeed diminishing the "-playing" part (more like rolewatching) but it's there nonetheless. Not to mention sandbox RPGs such as mount & blade.
Regards :laugh:
Computer and console RPGs ARE roleplaying games. You take the role of a specific character, pre-generated character with set history and personality, and play.
The fact that most games offer you no freedom whatsoever is indeed diminishing the "-playing" part (more like rolewatching) but it's there nonetheless. Not to mention sandbox RPGs such as mount & blade.
Regards :laugh:
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I've touched on this in the past myself. To be a true RPG you have to have an audience to play to IMHO, so no, no computer game can ever be a true RPG. However, like many other phrases, RPG has been hijacked to mean something different to what it did originally, English is a living language, it changes as time goes by. That doesn't stop me from bitching about it from time to time though! 
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
- The Traveller
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You take a role, true, but you don't play the role, you play the game. The main consideration for most people has to be how to build up skills, points and loot or what have you, not "what would GurneyHammer the Dwarf Healer whose parents have disowned him due to a regrettable incident with a particularly hairy elf do in this situation". It's all mechanics, about as much role playing as chess.Stworca wrote:Computer and console RPGs ARE roleplaying games. You take the role of a specific character, pre-generated character with set history and personality, and play.
To me RPGs are about the theatre, the atmosphere, the impromptu comments, the bad accents, the community around the table, the random clack of the dice and the feeling of friendship.
[url="http://www.codeximaginata.com"]A new tabletop roleplaying game, Codex Imaginata.[/url]
All roles have limits. Otherwise, they wouldn't be roles. Only difference between video/computer games and tabletop games is who sets the limits. After all, the AD&D rulebook is a set of limits. If your playing tabletop RPGs without limits you are probably doing it wrong.The Traveller wrote:In the spirit of the forum, I'll speak my mind about something that's been bothering me on and off. Computer or console RPGs are not role playing games, in that there is precious little roleplaying in them. In traditional tabletop RPGs, you play a character, and are limited in what you can do only by your imagination. With video games you are forever in someone's sandbox, and the only choices you can make are those that someone else has already thought of.
Just sayin'.
I could be misunderstanding things, but I think that you are using the term 'limit' in a different way than The Traveller doady.
I don't think he meant limit in terms of the limits the rule set imposes. In a table top game the limits in that sense are set by the group, adjudicated by the DM, they are flexible in a way a CRPG can never truly be. The limits in terms of how the character's role is expressed flows from the player's imagination, but has to be in tune with the group's ethos, and again adjudicated by the DM; something else that is beyond the scope of a CRPG in my opinion.
It is theoretically possible to accomplish true role playing on-line, unfortunately MMOs are trying to be all things to all people, and therefore are unable to accomplish it. I thought NWN had the potential to get close, but as I had problems with 3.5+ rulesets I don't know how close they came to the holy grail; but I've got the impression it didn't happen.
We just have to learn to accept that, English being English, words and phrases change over time and across genres. RPG is now a term that really has tow different interpretaions, one for the computer environment, and the other covers the social dimension of the game.
I don't think he meant limit in terms of the limits the rule set imposes. In a table top game the limits in that sense are set by the group, adjudicated by the DM, they are flexible in a way a CRPG can never truly be. The limits in terms of how the character's role is expressed flows from the player's imagination, but has to be in tune with the group's ethos, and again adjudicated by the DM; something else that is beyond the scope of a CRPG in my opinion.
It is theoretically possible to accomplish true role playing on-line, unfortunately MMOs are trying to be all things to all people, and therefore are unable to accomplish it. I thought NWN had the potential to get close, but as I had problems with 3.5+ rulesets I don't know how close they came to the holy grail; but I've got the impression it didn't happen.
We just have to learn to accept that, English being English, words and phrases change over time and across genres. RPG is now a term that really has tow different interpretaions, one for the computer environment, and the other covers the social dimension of the game.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
Until AI is invented, you'll never have any cRPG that can simulate a PnP RPG experience.
You'll always have to put in restrictions and limitations because otherwise the developers would have to think every possible scenario and implement it in the game. That's impossible.
However, I've never seen (m)any think that PnP, or TT if you will, RPG were the same experience as cRPG.
Seems more like trying to invent an argument and debate that more so than anything else. Where have somebody said that cRPG is the same as PnP RPGs?
However, cRPGs are RPG, Roleplaying Games, as Stworca "controversial" argument states.
You'll always have to put in restrictions and limitations because otherwise the developers would have to think every possible scenario and implement it in the game. That's impossible.
However, I've never seen (m)any think that PnP, or TT if you will, RPG were the same experience as cRPG.
Seems more like trying to invent an argument and debate that more so than anything else. Where have somebody said that cRPG is the same as PnP RPGs?
However, cRPGs are RPG, Roleplaying Games, as Stworca "controversial" argument states.
Insert signature here.
- GreenCronic -.-
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Electronic RPGs are still RPGs. You play your role of a Character that some one has made yes. But you make that character into who you want it to be! Playing RPGs with a simple board doesnt quite make it a RPG i could go outside and Claim myself the lord of the dwarven kingdom and prance around pretending to kill people or monsters or whatever you prefer thats the so called RPG you play I play one where you get quest customize your character save people from goblins and imps talk to ghost in letting there souls go free slaying the diseased vampire getting rid of starving mountain lions thats a real RPG my friend.The Traveller wrote:You take a role, true, but you don't play the role, you play the game. The main consideration for most people has to be how to build up skills, points and loot or what have you, not "what would GurneyHammer the Dwarf Healer whose parents have disowned him due to a regrettable incident with a particularly hairy elf do in this situation". It's all mechanics, about as much role playing as chess.
To me RPGs are about the theatre, the atmosphere, the impromptu comments, the bad accents, the community around the table, the random clack of the dice and the feeling of friendship.
I get what you are saying but my group as a 10 year old was mostly about the DM describing the monsters and terain and then us describing how we want to kill them. Occasionally a module but then as players we were just thinking how to succeed and gain levels/treasure. We didn't really get the theatrics.
But I get what you are saying. You can actually role play to yourself, but its like the difference between self stimulation and that with a partner.
But I get what you are saying. You can actually role play to yourself, but its like the difference between self stimulation and that with a partner.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Wrong, that could describe almost any genre, but not really Role Playing Games, you know games where you are either given a role to play or define your role prior to the start of the game.I play one where you get quest customize your character save people from goblins and imps talk to ghost in letting there souls go free slaying the diseased vampire getting rid of starving mountain lions thats a real RPG my friend.
I have yet to see a CRPG which adequately enforces and/or rewards good role playing, the one that seems most popular on here, and which I enjoyed playing, Baldur's Gate 2, certainly doesn't. This is sort of understandable, whether a game is truly an RPG or not doesn't really matter in the long run, the big question is, is it fun to play. Some of us, and I've been a major culprit on occasion, lose sight of that some times and get too critical.
I've pretty much come to terms with it myself thanks in no small part to Fallout 3. Here's a game that was sold as an RPG, but is definitely not one, but I sure enjoyed playing it.
I guess we've all experienced badly run social RPGs, and certainly there have been occasions where I'd have rather played a CRPG, fortunately very rarely. The final control lies with the group really though; if a DM continually does a bad job, then he/she will soon find themselves with no players as the players find themselves another DM and migrate to her/him.I've played in campains where cRPGS gives more freedom than PnP. It all depends on the DM.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
And the moment they do, I see several ethical problems arise that will prevent me from playing them.Xandax wrote:Until AI is invented, you'll never have any cRPG that can simulate a PnP RPG experience.
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