Ability Increases?

Kenpolean · Post by **Kenpolean** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:18 am

Glad to see there's still an active forum for such an old game. Not sure if I've got a glitch here, or if I'm just not understanding something. This is the first time I've tried Icewind Dale, and several searches online has not revealed an answer for my situation. It's the original Icewind Dale, and I did download patch v1.06 (the last patch I could find).

My characters are now either level 8, or getting close to being level 8, and still have the same ability points they started the game with. Aren't the supposed to get 1 ability point every 4th level? If so, is there a way I can configure something to force the game to give my characters their deserved ability points? And is there a fix so that they will start getting their increases when they're supposed to?

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Ken

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:25 am

You mean attributes, such as Strength, Agility and so on?
In ID1 you do not increase them every 4 levels, as it uses an older D&D system.

Kenpolean · Post by **Kenpolean** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:07 pm

Thank you for the quick reply. Yes, I meant STR, DEX, CON, etc.

Well, so far so good, as means nothing is wrong. So what is the system IWD uses for ability points (attributes)? I am not familiar with the Pen&Paper D&D. I only know what is in the video games I've played, and these games often take certain liberties with the "true" rules.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:25 am

It uses AD&D 2nd Edition rules. Your manual has the basic rules outlined.

Kenpolean · Post by **Kenpolean** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:09 pm

Basic rules, yes, but the manual says nothing at all about how or when you can increase your attributes.

I've tried researching D&D 2E Rules now, and still don't have an answer. Some sources say you are supposed to get 1 point every 4 levels to increase an attribute with. Some sources say you never get any increase at all and just have to make do with whatever you rolled at character creation. And many many sources just yabber on incessantly about making up your own "house" rules to make it more fun for you and your buddies (which would work great with P&P, but is quite impossible with Icewind Dale).

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:00 pm

Your attributes do not increase here upon a level up. You can only increase them temporarily by using spells and enchanted weapons/armor, or permanently by using certain tomes.

Most of the time, your attributes will remain close to what you rolled at the start of the game.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:29 am

As Stworca pointed out: the ability increases are something from D&D 3.0 & 3.5, which has nothing to do with IWD.

Kenpolean · Post by **Kenpolean** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:31 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:Your attributes do not increase here upon a level up. You can only increase them temporarily by using spells and enchanted weapons/armor, or permanently by using certain tomes.

Most of the time, your attributes will remain close to what you rolled at the start of the game.

A straight-forward post that perfectly answers the question. Thank you.

*wanders off to find some Elven mage named Larrel*

Adieu · Post by **Adieu** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:43 am

nope, stats don't level... there's just a few items that give straight-forward bonuses (mostly +1, rarely +2) and, depending on the version, might be a potion or two (random and changed around by patches and expansions, supposedly) that SWITCHES your stats (like +1 this -1 that)...

other than that, you're stuck.

unlike BG2, there aren't many stat-setting items (like the Charisma ring or the Giant Strength belt or the Dex gauntlets), maybe just one or two, and with class restrictions too... and definitely none right away from the start. soo, best you get your desired stats from the start

if you hate rolling and re-rolling, might just want to make a decent roll with 18/anything strength for your fighters/rangers/paladins/melee multiclasses and then setting them to 18-00 strength using dalekeeper, since this game requires harsh min-maxing and you're going to arrive at that figure after an hour pressing reroll anyway... and accepting just 1% of your best rolls because of one silly strength modifier seems kinda wasteful, while the difference between 18-01 (=1%) and 18-00 (=100%) strength is essential since it pretty much doubles your punch

generally, all melee classes should be 18-00/18/18 (or 19/17; 17/19; depending on race) for their physical stats, and everybody else should at least have maxed dex and 16 con (only melee classes get more than +2 bonus hitpoints per level, so a pure mage with 17 or 18 con doesn't really gain anything)

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Adieu wrote: ... since this game requires harsh min-maxing ...

No, it isn't required. It only affects the game difficulty. If you're experienced and like hard battles you might even consider the game too easy with a min-maxed party.

Blomdor · Post by **Blomdor** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:16 pm

Disagree as well - One guy with a bow can get through half the game just by running around being really, really annoying as I recall. The game relies a bit too much on massed melee muscle e.g yetis and orogs (or as I and the friend who ran through the game with me called them, Neo Orog Marauder Avenger Destroyer Lieutenant Commando Generals - it's a bit of a surprise how the BG series just calls them "Orogs"). I can only think of a few enemy types that can't be defeated with kiting and/or offscreen AOE tactics. It is very challenging in places, definitely, but 17 strength is not going to render a fighter useless.

Rerolling for 18/00 and high stat points has caused me more frustration and annoyance than the actual gameplay of every DnD game I've ever played combined. IMO getting rid of "exceptional strength" and making stats nonrandom was one of the best things IWDII did. To tack on a separate number to the strength stat and not allow additional points to be spent on increasing it always seemed very silly to me, almost as strange as the incredibly random HP rolls in most DnD games.

sear · Post by **sear** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:09 pm

Really, that's just a poor holdover from the tabletop rules. They make sense in a pen and paper context where everyone is limited by time and the luck of real dice, but in a computer situation there's no reason not to just reroll to infinity. The point buy setup in newer D&D games (and really, the entire ruleset) is just a massive improvement in terms of translating things to a computer-friendly format.

I know that I almost always played with a "twinked" party and would even save characters just for repeat play-throughs so I wouldn't have to re-roll. Doing anything else is basically holding yourself at a disadvantage. I don't think the game was outright designed with min-maxing in mind but it definitely makes things a lot easier at times.

magisensei1 · Post by **magisensei1** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:41 pm

Ah a debate of sorts on attributes between 2e and 3e. My two cents in this discussion is that in essence I prefer the 2e rule of non-increasing stats. If you think about it as a character you should already be at the prime of conditioning for your stats e.g. 18 INT or 18/xx for STR etc - it makes for me no sense that you can increase your INT or any stat so that you get potentially stronger/smarter etc. 18/00 max for humans shows a warrior at maximum optimal level strength - while in 3e having 18 str you are already as strong as a minataur - which seems implausible for a human to do - and if you continue to increase to 20+ eventually you reach ogre level strength with no magical aid sounds just crazy - what do you have muscles on muscles to be as powerful as a ogre unaided without magic. The 3e rule of stat increases is for those that favor a more video game RPG play style like WoW etc where stats can increase rather than a PnP game where humans/any creature should already be the best in their attributes in order to be of that class.

While there are some things that I find a bit unfair in terms of 2e stats e.g. non-fighters can't get exceptional strength 18/xx - for the most part it works for each class in terms of what their class considers the dominate trait of each class - a mage should have INT as high as possible since they study spells - rather than a high STR because they don't spend all day swinging big pieces of metal around.

As for IWD1 rolling for stats can be rather annoying but isn't that part of building character process - if this annoys you that much than just use DK to change the stats before the game starts to what you consider an optimal stat for your characters. What annoys me about IWD2 is the fact that I can't re-roll stats and get mere 16 points to put where I want rather than using pnp rules using 4d6 (5d6 for favored stats) dice for each stat and as such you have to almost play min and max to get an optimal character with good stats overall.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:12 pm

IIRC from my old AD&D books, a character's stats (unless changed through magic or an item) remained consistent while gaining levels, BUT they were subject to change based on a character's aging. Humans being most susceptable of course. A character's strength, for example, would decrease in later midlife and again in old age. I believe constitution did as well. But on the flip side wisdom would increase. So I would concur with magisensei's comment about characters being in the prime of life as they begin adventuring.