Magic users underpowered?

Pekka · Post by **Pekka** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:52 am

Anyone else feels like magic is quite a bit underpowered in the game, esp. in comparison to a full-enchanted/smithed 2-hander fighter type? I mean, you can get by on Adept difficulty with a mage, but if you want to go higher (Expert and so on) you feel kinda gimped.
This is aggravated by the fact that as a mage you need to gulp down pots a lot more often than a fighter usually does.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:51 am

Have you seen the master destruction spells?

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:17 am

I've found all 3 characters I've tried so far are underpowered!
I had a Sneak/Mage Breton who kept getting killed (got to lvl 10 only), a Sneak/Mage Dark Elf who lasted longer (lvl 16), and now I'm trying a Sneak Wood Elf with minimal magic backup and Archery as her weapon skill. Currently lvl 8) She keeps getting creamed as well.

I think I might try a Nord warrior...

Sparklesjd · Post by **Sparklesjd** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:26 am

I'm having the same problem, I'm sort of a mage-rogue type and if I go up against a straight fighter, one hit is enough to kill me, I try to stay at a distance, but it's not always possible for as long as it takes to kill them with magic.

I think my problem is I've levelled too fast, with alchemy etc. so I'm facing 25th lvl beasties with a 10th level skill set

Nastypoet · Post by **Nastypoet** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:45 am

Protective spells and potions are so much more important I've had little problem stonflesh oakflesh ect also weakness to fire us helpful ive noticed that enchanting armour with magicperks is better than types where in oblivion u could get away with it but I'm using fur with an armlur rating near 50 and add in oakflesh and am as strong as the fighters defense wise if not stronger also know ur magic frost eill slow down enemies great if u need to recharge a shout but I usually stick with fire for general combat I've had little problem woth most hunanoid but giants dtill kick my ass at lvl 16 also look at urprefrence if ur not putting perks to dedtruction for magic and congure to use weapons (bound sword battleaxe ect) then ur playing to what u use ie alchamest makes potions butu need more than that that

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:18 am

You really need to use multiple magic schools to be effective. If you're going to go with destruction as your main source of damage, then using conjuration is almost a must. Also, get the Impact perk from the Destruction tree as soon as possible.

You can also pair up Destruction with Illusion. And exploit the hell out of Calm spell. Basically your encounters will all look like (destruction spell of choice) + Calm + (destruction spell of choice) + Calm..... etc., until dead. For multiple foes, Frenzy + Calm will do wonders!!!

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:57 am

Mm. Interesting.An advantage in Oblivion is that you could regulate how fast you leveled. NOT the case in Skyrim. No keeping key skills in Minor Skills any more!

Ah well... Gotta learn a whole new way of operating.

Nastypoet · Post by **Nastypoet** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:10 am

That killed me in oblivion I had athleticism and my level flew up which made things tougher t first time I posted through I like this method better cause it rewards experience

Pekka · Post by **Pekka** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:11 am

Yeh, I always quicksave before reading any strange book, just in case I get a skillup in something I dont need. Basically, the idea is to focus on your combat skills as much as possible, otherwise you'll be gimped at higher levels.

More on topic: I done some reading on the subject and it seems like if you want a total non-stop powerhouse character in the late game, you need to increase enchanting, blacksmithing and alchemy(not to the exclusion of combat skills ofc, balanced mix is in order here). This is due to the fact that all of these stack up when you upgrade/enchant your gear, so you can get it pimped out to ungodly levels(self-forged and enhanced Daedric armor!). For fighting skills people tend to suggest heavy armor and 2-hander or alternately dual wield 1-handers with sneak.

Pekka · Post by **Pekka** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:34 am

Stworca wrote:Have you seen the master destruction spells?

I can appreciate the fact that magic is much better at dealing with large packs of enemies due to massive aoe capabilities, but it seems like a power attack from an insane slow 2-h. axe or hammer will still beat any spell in terms of raw single-target damage (assuming good, aka self-made/enhanced, weapon).

That said, magic has one clear advantage over melee in this game - it offers a much more varied and interesting style of play, in my opinion.

Noxamoi · Post by **Noxamoi** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:48 pm

I'm playing a Level 12 Nord warrior and sometimes I feel the exact opposite. Mages scare the crap out of me (except for the frost kind). Groups of warriors I can annihilate, but throw in a couple fire mages (by far the worse of the bunch) and I am sweating bullets (and reloading more often than I'd like). Perhaps I haven't tried enough tricks - but even with a superior steal sword and +60% one handed damage - it seems to take forever to take those darn mages down. And while I am doing that, my health is quickly going down as I am burning to death.

Guess I need to pry loose the padlocks on my coin purse and invest in some fire resistance equipment.

Pekka · Post by **Pekka** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:58 pm

Noxamoi wrote:I'm playing a Level 12 Nord warrior and sometimes I feel the exact opposite. Mages scare the crap out of me (except for the frost kind). Groups of warriors I can annihilate, but throw in a couple fire mages (by far the worse of the bunch) and I am sweating bullets (and reloading more often than I'd like). Perhaps I haven't tried enough tricks - but even with a superior steal sword and +60% one handed damage - it seems to take forever to take those darn mages down. And while I am doing that, my health is quickly going down as I am burning to death.

Guess I need to pry loose the padlocks on my coin purse and invest in some fire resistance equipment.

Hehe, that's why it pays to go Breton regardless what type of character you play - for the incredible 25% free magic resist! With some additional in-game items you can easily bring this up to 75% resist to all schools, which makes you nigh invincible.

Ragin Cajun · Post by **Ragin Cajun** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:29 am

Over at the Skyrim forums it is well documented that destruction based spells do not level well at higher levels. The other schools seem to be ok, again per mages posting at Skyrim's main forums.

There is a mod that balances magic and seems to have gotten good reviews. I've downloaded it and started a mage with it, however not a high level.

Bows and melee are much better scaling classes in vanilla.

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:38 am

can you link the mod?
would be much appreciated, when i look i get a couple of hits and want to use "the right one"

on another note, where do i get the higher level spells? it seems im just able to get level 1 and 2 spells from the court wizards

Pekka · Post by **Pekka** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:48 am

Dummy wrote:can you link the mod?
would be much appreciated, when i look i get a couple of hits and want to use "the right one"

on another note, where do i get the higher level spells? it seems im just able to get level 1 and 2 spells from the court wizards

Try checking College of Winterhold for higher spells and better spell selection.

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:17 am

Pekka is right, College of Winterfell is where you would get most of the higher level spells. However, do be aware that the spells won't show up until your character gainst the appropriate skill level in whatever school you want to buy a spell for.

I believe it's (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

0 - for Novice spells
25 - for Apprentice
50 - for Adept
75 - for Expert
100 - for Master

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:40 pm

thanks I will take a look at the College then

MageRage · Post by **MageRage** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 pm

I seen some videos about mages and they are freakin' evil, cool spells however.

TAKR86 · Post by **TAKR86** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:10 am

Master lvl destruction spells are of somewhat questionable value because they are interruptible and you cannot cast them while moving. Enemies have a pretty easy time getting to you (which usually equals death for a mage) with the master destruction spells, but only if you rely exclusively on destruction spells in you combat tactics. A good use of Illusion and conjuration spells will help a lot and a high alteration skill will allow you to paralyze your enemies. The master lvl spells are powerfull, but not too powerfull and you need to develop a suitable tactic to keep you alive long enough to cast them.

I really don't think magic users are underpowered. I rarely use the master lvl. destruction spells, because using lower lvl spells with dual-wield and the impact perk (+ shouts like unrelenting force and ice form) my enemies rarely get close enough to kill me, also with some nice protection from the alteration school, an atronarch to keep enemies at bay and some calm and frenzy spells if they do get close will allow me to win most battles without much trouble.