I'm fairly enthousiastic about what I read regarding Risen 2. It seems to build directly on its predecessor, so I'm considering playing it. However, I've also heard plenty of bad things about, mainly poor performance & bugs. Also, I didn't really like Gothic II's character progression system.
Who has played Risen, and how was it?
Thanks in advance!
Convince me to play Risen
I'm not sure I'll be convincing you to play either, but..GawainBS wrote:I'm fairly enthousiastic about what I read regarding Risen 2. It seems to build directly on its predecessor, so I'm considering playing it. However, I've also heard plenty of bad things about, mainly poor performance & bugs. Also, I didn't really like Gothic II's character progression system.
Who has played Risen, and how was it?
Thanks in advance!
I liked it better than DA Origins, though I'd rate them about the same. It has a few things going for it that many other games lack, while still having plenty of problems as well.
I guess the biggest thing that I liked was the realism. Attacks were realistic, the landscape was realistic, people were realistic (not visually, but personality-wise).
The one thing that wasn't entirely realistic is your character's strength/hit-points (particularly) at lower levels. In combination with one of the best AI's I've seen for wild-life - you could get killed pretty quickly just wandering around the island at low levels. Even at higher levels it's not particularly easy, but a lot of that has to do with your own personal ability with attacks than simply a leveling system (..which it does have and is relevant, just not as "potent" a system as something like D&D.. nor as complex).
Typical 3rd person perspective in a "sand-box" environment.. but with largely believable quests. It takes some time "getting into", but once you have it definitely "sucks you in".
As far as role-playing - it's only one role, but it's a more believable role than any traditional RPG. Most choices are more "shades of grey" than specifically good or evil. With exception to a near absence of children, the number of people and the quality and character of most people (quest driven or not) were excellent. Most people seemed like real people - each with their own problems. Their "quests" did NOT seem like contrived methods for acquiring XP.
Graphically it was both stunning and crude. The landscape, flora, and water effects were gorgeous. The animals and people (particularly) looked several generations of coding old.
Its over-riding plot is not entirely obvious either.
Perhaps the worst element of the game is the very end - which had so little to do with the overall gaming experience that you wonder what the developers were thinking. Despite that, I really enjoyed the game.
I played "Gothic" IV (Arcania) a few months later and it was overall much worse - though still having some fun to it.
Arcania was about a 4.5 IMO, slightly lower than the first Two Worlds. Risen a 7-7.5 as long as you forget about the final end-sequence.
Yeah, "very good" is about right.GawainBS wrote:Given your rating system, 7 or 7.5 is very good. I think I'll start searching for the cheapest way to get this. Thanks!
I think I'd rate 4-5 as about average.. not truly "average" compared to all games, but something that can be fun that is overall either mediocre, or good (..but exceptionally flawed). I wish I'd come across something developed more recently that I could apply a value of 8 or more to..3 recommendations:
1. Use a gaming "keypad" like the Belkin n52te, which is not only useful for attacking/defending, but makes the game-play MUCH better (..than simply using a keyboard).
2. Go the "developer" route in the game.. i.e. 1st , Bandit Camp, 2nd Town, 3rd Monastery. Most importantly putting-off the Monastery for as long as possible - with a fair amount of exploration before going there. Generally start going to the next "area" before totally "committing" to one "side" or another (from the previous area).
3. Save up most of your skill points and read-up on what is useful and what isn't from various sources on the web. Most importantly is having a "cache" of them to try-out (save before spending) and see if spending them is worth-while or not. I used melee/ranged attacks for 2/3rds of the game on a fairly low point basis, and stocked-up on a huge cache of skill points to spend at the Monestary (for Magic). Magic is NOT like D&D with all it's complexity, instead it's very basic but quite useful "ranged attack" - provided the attack-type you use is *maxed* (which requires a lot of points). I'd strongly recommend anyone do the same (..i.e. low points in one melee and ranged skill for most of the game, with very large reserve for magic toward the end).
I find they can enhance a LOT of games - DA I & II, Witcher I & II, Risen, etc.. - very useful overall. Considerably less useful for top-down RPG's with lot's of "stop motion" gaming.GawainBS wrote:..I doubt I'll get a gamepad specifically for this game, though.
I like the Belkin for it's relatively ergonomic design, and particularly because its setting are "saved" in the hardware itself, NOT a software-only solution. (..it "uploads" the keystrokes you want applied to each key and button - so that the game natively "sees" that key or key combination when pressed).
There are a few games where I preferred an actual game-pad though - like an x-box controller (with occasional access to the keyboard). Jade Empire and Hellgate London come to mind (..though very different games).
I borrowed a gamepad. The thing that's keeping me back from getting Risen, is the fact that I've read several reviews citing the "near cheating-level of difficulty in the combat" and the complete and utter lack of a questlog & minimap. While I don't need a Big Flashing Arrow for quests, a log with the progression is a bare minimum.
Are those three things dealbreakers?
Are those three things dealbreakers?
GawainBS wrote:I borrowed a gamepad. The thing that's keeping me back from getting Risen, is the fact that I've read several reviews citing the "near cheating-level of difficulty in the combat" and the complete and utter lack of a questlog & minimap. While I don't need a Big Flashing Arrow for quests, a log with the progression is a bare minimum.
Are those three things dealbreakers?
What type of gamepad?
Hmm, combat, questing, and maping..
It's life-like.
Combat is *very* difficult - it's one of the reasons I really like the game, it's challenging. It's not "point and click" at all. Once you really get the mechanics of it then it's not that difficult, but that will take a bit. Strategically however (and overall difficulty), it's not nearly as difficult as say Wizardry 8.
Tip: Start the game on it's hardest setting. Yes, it will be punishing at lower levels, but once you've gotten some hit-points and strength accumulated then it becomes MUCH easier - plus using the info I've provided should make those lower levels less difficult.
More specifically:
Wild-life, any of which can kill you pretty easily at low-levels and without much real experience with the game's combat mechanics, is for the most part HIGHLY POPULATED on the island (..well, until you've killed everything). The exception to this are the "paths" through-out the island, (..and populated areas), which rarely ever have any to speak of. (..those areas of the path that do are specifically made by the developers to effectively say: "if you can't handle this fight then you shouldn't be here.") So staying on the path is pretty much safe, but venturing-off even a little will be an exercise in fun or frustration, depending on your own skill and your avatar's skills (..and more the former than the later).
Additionally, Wild-life is territorial. Get to close and most will make a warning noise. Back-away in time (onto a path) and you should be safe. With that in mind, you can often run-away from just about anything, and if something is particularly persistent then you can often run to help early-on (..the "Bandit Camp"). In fact right near the path on the way to the Bandit Camp is a rat that you will likely need to run away from - and into the camp (where help will kill it off).
Tip: When running for "help" run past at least one individual before turning around to help join the attack. As soon as the individual starts hitting that opponent then you can join-in. (..but MAKE SURE THEY DON'T GET KILLED!)
As for *you* getting better at attacking, there is a "trainer" in the camp that you can train with. This isn't some cheesy trainer a'la Bethesda for your avatar's skill points (..they have those as well, and even most in the Bandit Camp). Instead, this is an actual combatant that won't kill you that you can train with so you can get better at attacks. Once you've gotten better at that THEN you can go out and start clearing some of the easier Wild-life along the path you started from - and naturally you will improve further. Only once you've done this should you start with some of the quests in the Bandit Camp. (..after a bit you'll have some skill points to spend on Sword *or* Axe.)
Note: For the shear joy of this combat system, milking as much game-time fun as possible, I'd recommend this order of weapon use: Sword *or* Axe + Shield, then Archery, then Staff, then Magic. (..staff and magic are the last two areas of combat and are limited to the Monastery.) DO NOT spend more than about 2 points in *either* Sword or Axe, and later 2 in Archery. (..maybe 3 in each, don't remember.) You'll want to stock-pile points for later use, and those few points should give you enough to make it through most of the game - attributes actually make a bigger difference to your avatar's effectiveness than most of the weapon skills. Even then though, you should really be careful with your training your attributes. Read a few sources on attribute point expenditure (and skill point expenditure), because I've forgotten much about this game's leveling mechanics. I do remember though that early-on strength was primarily the "go-to" stat for those earlier levels.
Tip: Once you've explored at least half of the island then you can head to the Monastery and train in staff - seeing if you like that better than Sword or Axe + shield, and can then make up your mind which to progress in. I HIGHLY recommend saving enough skill points for a 10 in two of the three magic types (Magic Bullet, Frost, or Fire). (..I particularly like Magic Bullet for it's rapid fire + modest "knock back" effect.) Most of the other non-combat skills (or rune/scroll magic) should be maxed as well - with pick-pocketing as a potential exception.
..Questing:
It's pretty simple, do not take more than one quest at a time. Do the quest, return to the quest giver and only then consider doing another quest. Occasionally you'll violate this, but not to often and it shouldn't be difficult to remember two quests.
..Mapping:
You'll wind-up memorizing just about every square inch of the island. Most areas off-limits until you have gotten better with sword or shield and bow. (..or are perhaps path-ways to run to a populated area, specifically Bandit Camp to Town via quest.) Only then should you start serious exploring.
It's only when either:
you are seeing the area for the first time, or
you are running OFF of a path
-that you get into trouble with disorientation.
If you are on a path then you can always back-track and look at sign-posts to get an idea of where you are and where you need to be.
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Nymie_the_Pooh
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If you enjoyed the combat from the first three Gothic games (only including the third one here with full community patching) then the combat in Risen should be rather satisfying. Anybody that refers to the combat AI as cheating likely feels the same way about the Gothic series. While your build helps by enhancing certain aspects the way you play combat matters a lot more than most action games with a character advancement system. I've only played Risen with a keyboard and mouse but that works great for me personally.
Combat can be really hard at first. You may be able to take on one animal at a time when you first arrive on the island. Possibly two if you know the combat system or have a lot of experience with combat similar to that found in this game such as Gothic. You are probably better off running away at first however if faced with more than one enemy. You get to the old camp pretty early and the combats stemming off from there were easier for me than the wild animals found on the way there from the landing point.
Combat can be really hard at first. You may be able to take on one animal at a time when you first arrive on the island. Possibly two if you know the combat system or have a lot of experience with combat similar to that found in this game such as Gothic. You are probably better off running away at first however if faced with more than one enemy. You get to the old camp pretty early and the combats stemming off from there were easier for me than the wild animals found on the way there from the landing point.
Well, I didn't like Gothic (only played II) because of its "woody" protagonist and the unintuitive controls.
Is Staff a viable option? I'd prefer that instead of Shield + other weapon. Are the benefits of the Mage worthwhile? I'm pretty sure I want Magic Missile & Fireball, but not yet on the "Rune Magic." Care to explain that a bit?
Also, what are good sources on leveling advice? Gamefaqs.com scarcely has any good guides.
Is Staff a viable option? I'd prefer that instead of Shield + other weapon. Are the benefits of the Mage worthwhile? I'm pretty sure I want Magic Missile & Fireball, but not yet on the "Rune Magic." Care to explain that a bit?
Also, what are good sources on leveling advice? Gamefaqs.com scarcely has any good guides.
I would go for sword and shield for the first playthrough. It gives you a big advantage in defense.
Shields can block attacks from animals as well as from humanoids using weapons. And later when you get training with swords/axes you can use twohanders in one hand.
The trick is just to keep your block up until they attack. After they strike your shield and do no damage, you immediately strike back with a quick blow.
As for leveling tips I would get a shield and go mop up all the weak animals closest to the roads. But be careful, as mentioned earlier, when fighting groups. The only advantage with groups is that when you swing your weapon you can hit multiple enemies with one blow.
Shields can block attacks from animals as well as from humanoids using weapons. And later when you get training with swords/axes you can use twohanders in one hand.
The trick is just to keep your block up until they attack. After they strike your shield and do no damage, you immediately strike back with a quick blow.
As for leveling tips I would get a shield and go mop up all the weak animals closest to the roads. But be careful, as mentioned earlier, when fighting groups. The only advantage with groups is that when you swing your weapon you can hit multiple enemies with one blow.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
I enjoyed the game for a while, but one thing that really bothered me was the lack of realism regarding money/prices. It seems such a simple thing to try to add to one's game to increase the realism, but, sadly, a thing most developers tend to ignore.
The prices in the game made absolutely no sense to me. For example, several hundred gold for even a simple farmers outfit. Which means you have to play for hours just to afford something that even the poorest sap walking around the world is already wearing. How did the simple peasant afford it.... well we'll never know. Perhaps every article of clothing in this game is a prized and sacred possession that is passed down thru the generations.
The prices in the game made absolutely no sense to me. For example, several hundred gold for even a simple farmers outfit. Which means you have to play for hours just to afford something that even the poorest sap walking around the world is already wearing. How did the simple peasant afford it.... well we'll never know. Perhaps every article of clothing in this game is a prized and sacred possession that is passed down thru the generations.
I would keep to the method I outlined. The real reason is (IMO) it's a play-once game (..though most games are IMO).GawainBS wrote:
Is Staff a viable option? I'd prefer that instead of Shield + other weapon. Are the benefits of the Mage worthwhile? I'm pretty sure I want Magic Missile & Fireball, but not yet on the "Rune Magic." Care to explain that a bit?
Also, what are good sources on leveling advice? Gamefaqs.com scarcely has any good guides.
Because of this it's rather nice to "do it all" - playing sword or axe + shield for a bit, and then changing over to staff, and finally settling on one or the other. Note: the staff does *play* differently than sword or axe.
I preferred staff, but the only way to train in it right away is going the Monastery route - and that tends to reduce your overall gaming experience. The developers intended the Bandit Camp first, then the Town, and finally the Monastery. I believe however that there is a trainer in town for staffs - so you could accelerate the process a bit without violating the intended transition. (..in fact you could jump into town near its front gate with acrobatics ahead of the Bandit quest that gets you into town - without any real problems as far as quests are concerned. It's not particularly easy to do however, and there is a fair bit of nastier wild-life you'll need to run past.)
Magic tends to "ruin" the game by making it easier (..depending on skill level and mana level). Again, something you shouldn't consider until accruing a LOT of points and finally signing up for the Monastery (..as opposed to being abducted/recruited). "Magic" in this instance (..Magic Bullet, Fireball, or Frost), is just another type of attack mechanism - substituting any other attacks (i.e. sword/axe, staff, and bow). You can of course alternate your attacks (i.e. Bullet and then Staff), but why would you as long as you have the mana? As for Rune Magic and Scroll Magic - that's not really optional (..it's required by the game for certain later sequences).
I don't remember websites with leveling strategies.
I'm sure there has to be some, and even Gamebanshee has some tips on Risen.Note: a "rumble pad" isn't the type of gaming pad I'm talking about, this is:
Logitech - G13 Advanced Gameboard
Don't know, but the rumble pad might work well for this game.
(..never tried it, but the WASD keys on a standard keyboard are absolutely archaic when compared to something like the gaming pad in the link above..that can be programed for combo moves with keys for everything needed in the game.)Ok, thanks. The gamepad I got is a regular X-box controller-like device. It sounds like Risen "needs" some thorough metagaming to get the most out of it.
My final question regarding "classes": Is the ability of the Mage to memorise scrolls necessary, or "very, very good"? So far, I'm leaning towards the Warrior of The Order.
My final question regarding "classes": Is the ability of the Mage to memorise scrolls necessary, or "very, very good"? So far, I'm leaning towards the Warrior of The Order.
Yes, meta-gaming is a good idea - a bit of walk-through reading with respect to the Bandit camp quests (and quests that overlap with their quests). I'd other-wise stay away from reading most of the Town and Monastery quests (especially the Monastery quests). The one area of the Town I'd suggest reading (later in the game) is what's required to actually "sign-up" with the Monastery, rather than being abducted by them. (..I *think* it's the commander of the Town that gives you the papers needed for signing-up. Sorry, but it's been quite awhile since I played it and don't remember.GawainBS wrote:Ok, thanks. The gamepad I got is a regular X-box controller-like device. It sounds like Risen "needs" some thorough metagaming to get the most out of it.
My final question regarding "classes": Is the ability of the Mage to memorise scrolls necessary, or "very, very good"? So far, I'm leaning towards the Warrior of The Order.
)I do remember though that there is one point in the game, performing a criminal act in town - that should generally be avoided. Its right when you enter the town via the Bandit quest allowing you entry from the rear of the Town, you are asked to do one thing by a Bandit in Town, and then very soon after approached by the Town law. Choose the Town law path.
The "Order" is the Monastery. It's the "path" I ultimately chose, but not until after doing just about everything with the Bandits. There are a few quests that seemingly makes you choose the Bandits against the Monastery (..attacking a few Monastery camps near the Bandit camp), but they don't.
I think you get "scroll" magic for free and even at least one of the "seal" magic. ..all of which is in the Monastery, again though, not something you'll need to concern yourself with until much later in the game. (..it is however cool - rune magic spells are more like actual spells than the Magic Bullet/Fire/Frost attack methods, things like levitate - where you can virtually "fly" by simply steeping off a high ledge area, a shape-shift form needed to access certain areas of the map, etc..)
Bummer.GawainBS wrote:I got Risen on Gamersgate.com. However, whenever the download completes, I get an error. Techsupport has been anything but helpful. Looks like I won't be playing Risen anytime soon, and I'll stick to Steam.
I've had problems with Steam as well..
..and even problems with DVD/CD's.
Still, I prefer DVD's if possible. Just something about "download" content that doesn't make me feel like I "own" it. I guess I'm "old-school" that way.