Can't find Edwin

kye · Post by **kye** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:02 pm

When I played picking Bodhi's side against the Shadow Thieves I never ran in to Edwin and couldn't therefore invite him to the party. How do I acquire him? Do I have to side with the Shadow thieves?

Also, I've never had him in the party for any longer extent of time. What do you guys think about him?

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:13 pm

You can do the quest and meet Edwin before making your decision with whom to side. With the 3 extra spells he gets per level he's quite overpowered.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:17 pm

What you have to do is going to the Shadow Thieves guild before talking to Bodhi, speak with Renal Bloodscalp, accept Mae'Var quest, finish it (acquiring Edwin in the meantime).
After this you can side Bodhi or the Shadow Thieves.

Edit: I think he's the funniest npc in the game and the best mage you can find

kye · Post by **kye** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:32 pm

All right, thank you guys! I wanna keep him in ,y party, although I'm playing as a mage myself. But I guess two mages is good.

Btw do you know if Nalia and Yoshimo are the only thieves in Athkatla (before you leave for Spellhold)? Nalia is suck a sucky thief and Yoshimo...well.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:05 pm

There is another multiclassed thief that you can get - frankly my favorite character, not to mention that in terms of potential power, I'd put him into second place.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:27 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:There is another multiclassed thief that you can get - frankly my favorite character, not to mention that in terms of potential power, I'd put him into second place.

And said multiclass thief has very entertaining conversations with Edwin..

I'd suggest taking a stroll around the Government District, it shouldn't take you very long to run into him.
Hint, he will be trying to sell you something and in order for him to join you, you'll need to act as his cover at a certain point.

kye · Post by **kye** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:06 am

Aa, right, you're talking about Jan Jansen. I'd completely forgotten about him. He's kinda cool.

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:27 am

Pure mages are quite underpowered in this game, extra spells or not. I'd take Jan any second over Edwin in terms of power, not to mention dialogs. Provided the party does have another mage for the awesome high level magic. Which arent many NPCs, granted. But Imoen suffices.

edit: For example cast Mislead and Jan is in god mode and backstabs every round for 5x damage = 5 attacks per round basically. Which is better than any fighter can do until HLA. And not even need haste. Hax.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:33 am

@roller1234: If you don't consider his THAC0...
@Crenshinibon: with SoA limitations there's only 1 npc stronger than Edwin, imo, and it is Haer'Dalis

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:07 am

Space Invader wrote:234: If you don't consider his THAC0...
@Crenshinibon: with SoA limitations there's only 1 npc stronger than Edwin, imo, and it is Haer'Dalis

You're preaching to the converted! :laugh:

Pure mages are quite underpowered in this game

You are joking right? Pure mages absolutley own this game, no other class can match them in raw power or defence for that matter. Haer'Dalis in the right hands can give them at least a run for their money, but he is a cheesed version of a badly interpreted class.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:18 am

Probably he meant they are quite underpowered while in wild/anti-magic areas...

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:44 am

galraen wrote: You are joking right? Pure mages absolutley own this game, no other class can match them in raw power or defence for that matter. Haer'Dalis in the right hands can give them at least a run for their money, but he is a cheesed version of a badly interpreted class.

And thats why Nalia is soo popular, and she even got some thief levels as a bonus. :laugh: Pure mages suck and there is nothing to be done about it. Arcane magic owns this game. Not mages.

Space Invader
what about his thac0? Give him a str boosting item for gods sake and a nice stuff and watch the numbers fly.

Using Haerdalis for anything but singing, is doing it wrong. Sure, his other options are moderately useful, but nothing as powerful as the HLA song. Have you guys even tried to explore the possibilities of the various classes other than default ones? At the very least his song gives +40 damage per round to each fighter in the party. Nothing he can do with weapons will match that.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:21 am

Fly... Sure...
By saying that he's MAYBE stronger than Edwin I already take in consideration the use of decoys to sing and free action to move while in rotation.
Btw no, I never tried to explore the possibilities of the various classes. To be fair, I got pwned by Irenicus torture spells. Never manage to get out of the damn cage :'(
True story.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:25 pm

Pure mages suck and there is nothing to be done about it. Arcane magic owns this game. Not mages.

This makes no sense, saying mages suck and Arcane magic owning the game is a complete contradiction. Arcane magic is the most powerful force in thegame, therefore those who specialise in it have to be amongst the most powerful. Sure being dual-classed gives a boost, but Edwin on his own is more powerful than any other character it the game; including (IMO) Haer'Dalis.

Using Haerdalis for anything but singing, is doing it wrong. Sure, his other options are moderately useful, but nothing as powerful as the HLA song.

Moderately useful! Like being a mobile killing machine do you mean? Even if you never use his song, he's still one of the most destructive forces in the game. Far too much micro-management for my liking, which is why I've only run through the game once with a Blade. She was the only one who could kick but better than any character I've run through the game, with the exception of a solo fighter/mage/thief, with no XP cap. A Kensia/Mage and a straight mage are just about on a par. Solo Ranger/Cleric is mighty powerful character too.

Of course, the truth is that any character, of any class or classes can make it through the game without too much difficulty, which is why some people like to use mods that make the game harder, even virtually impossible in the case of Stworca!

Rancid Sushi · Post by **Rancid Sushi** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:01 pm

Familiar with The Ritual quest from the Tactics mod? I once cleared the entire area using Edwin almost exclusively. You can't tell me he isn't one of the most powerful NPCs in the whole series.

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:15 am

galraen wrote:This makes no sense, saying mages suck and Arcane magic owning the game is a complete contradiction. Arcane magic is the most powerful force in thegame, therefore those who specialise in it have to be amongst the most powerful. Sure being dual-classed gives a boost, but Edwin on his own is more powerful than any other character it the game; including (IMO) Haer'Dalis.

Mages have the power, but cant properly apply it. Which is precisely why multiclass gives a boost, it gives a way to use magic for something useful. Jan using magic for permabackstab, or fighter using magic for complete protection. etc. Sorc, using spells they need to cast. Edwins extra spells sure help, but he still is nowhere close to actually powerful classes. Jan is the most powerful stock NPC in the game. Haerdalis.. needs 3kk exp to be good. I wouldnt say that qualifies him as even good for a SoA game. In fact, before ToB came out, barely anyone took him or even noticed. "True story".

Imoen>>Edwin. Later what do you need extra spells for? Wish refreshes complete party and Imoen has more utility. I dont remember if Projected Imagess can backstab though.

Space Invader wrote:Fly... Sure...
By saying that he's MAYBE stronger than Edwin I already take in consideration the use of decoys to sing and free action to move while in rotation.
Btw no, I never tried to explore the possibilities of the various classes. To be fair, I got pwned by Irenicus torture spells. Never manage to get out of the damn cage :'(
True story.

We are not discussing cheats. No need to, but ok, then show a way how Edwin is supposed to beat a stacked HLA song in usefulness, and that without the robe of Vecna, since that would be on the main character of the topic starter. I am genuinely curious.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:11 am

Ok, let's start.
1) Permabackstab: Yeah, deadly. But only if we are refering to SoA. Try to knock out with a backstab a powerful ToB enemy and see what happens... There are 3 possibilities: you canuse backstab with low level enemies and at this point it would be faster to use magic or melee damage dealers, you will be spotted even when invisible or your target will be immune to it.
And it will be even more hard with mods that make the game harder.

2) Muticlasses > Edwin: First, with the same amount of exp, Edwin will be obviously of higher level. Which already means more dmg x spell and Dispel Magic hardly working on him if casted by a lower multiclass. Second, I suppose there is a level cap in his playthrough (back to first point).
Third, Edwin is a specialist mage AND he has bonus spells due to the amulet, so unless your multiclass char is going to be Jan or an illusionist/something gnome you won't even get close to his spell-per-day number. 4th, how many Wish spells do you think are needed to replenish your spellbook? 1? Even using projected images you will need many slots, since it's not a sorcerer the class we are talking about. Edwin has them and still cast many others, unlike your multi.

2) Dualclassed Mages > Edwin: The cool things about kensai/mage, anti-paladin/mage, berserk/mage, etc, is that you can use melee attacks instead of wasting offensive spells and the high dps while your target has no protection vs your weapons. Now, how can a fighter/mage possibly win vs someone that can re-pop pfmw/stoneskin/whatever with a simple contingency and in the meantime lower your MR and dispell your way more limited number of protections?

3) Edwin w/o Vecna's Robe: Well, not a lot to say here. A naked mage can still win vs every non-mage char and even vs other mages with the right number of contingency/chain contingency, but for that you need many slots... Oh, hi Edwin!
Ps. Btw this is a stupid point, it's like saying "Guys I'm a paladin and I'm gonna recruit Keldorn, but ofc I will keep Carsomyr and the best armor for me."

Edit: sorry, double post.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:14 am

5) No, PI can't attack. Unless you use some exploits like transformation or save/reload.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:16 am

Mages have the power, but cant properly apply it.

Huh? What on earth is that supposed to mean? Are all the mages you play under a permanent Silence 15' Radius or some other handicap that prevents them casting spells?

Edwins extra spells sure help, but he still is nowhere close to actually powerful classes.

He is the most powerful class, unless of course all you're interested in is hack and slash!*

5) No, PI can't attack. Unless you use some exploits like transformation or save/reload.

They aren't supposed to attack in a physical sense, they are supposed to cast spells. Why on earth would a mage engage in physical combat? A bit like a tank crew jumping out of their tank to attack the enemy with wrenches instead of the cannon and machine guns already at their disposal!

* As some people seem to think implying that someone prefers 'Hack and Slash' is some sort of insult, I'd better insert a caveat that no offense is intended. Nothing wrong with preferring with preferring that style, but you certainly will never understand just how powerful mages are if you only use that style.

Space Invader · Post by **Space Invader** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:19 am

galraen wrote: They aren't supposed to attack in a physical sense, they are supposed to cast spells. Why on earth would a mage engage in physical combat? A bit like a tank crew jumping out of their tank to attack the enemy with wrenches instead of the cannon and machine guns already at their disposal!

He asked because of the Mislead>backstab thing