Katana or Dual-blade sword? Maybe Scythe?

Nymie_the_Pooh · Post by **Nymie_the_Pooh** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:09 pm

A keen greatsword in the hands of a weapon master with improved crit is what? 13-20/x3 with a keen greataxe being being 16-20/x4 if I understand the math correctly. If hitting is not a real concern, then the 13 should still be a hit and then yes there is the confirm, but if built the same way aside from weapon choice then they both have the same chance to confirm the crit.

If the concern is base damage, then the average damage on the scythe is (2+8)/2 or 5 which is just two less than the average of the greatsword, or 1.5 less than the suggested greataxe. Yeah, it's weaker base damage, but it is also both slashing and piercing in one weapon so if something is resistant to only one of those the full damage still goes through. It stings early on, but as you go up in level while the base damage of the weapon still matters, that two damage per swing tends to matter a little less and that is only a concern against enemies you can't crit against.

I think both the greatsword and greataxe are solid choices. It helps a lot that they don't require a feat to use. Scythe pulls ahead on crits. This holds particularly true if maxing out strength while taking power attack. It's true that there are quite a few enemies that do not suffer critical hits, but on those the scythe is doing an average of two damage less than the greatsword and if pumping strength and power attack then that two average damage becomes less noticeable.

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems like the point roller1234 is trying to make is that threat range does not matter because the chance to hit is too high to use the full range on weapons with the wider spread but at the same time it isn't hard to hit anything? I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say roller1234.

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:05 am

GawainBS wrote:Yes, and as shown, greatsword's weapon base damage is (marginally) better. Contrary to Pen & Paper, elemental enchantments DO get multiplied. You can verify this in the combat log.

Well you also claim it doesnt matter, so decide please.

Nymie_the_Pooh wrote: but at the same time it isn't hard to hit anything? I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say roller1234.

Just because a sorc with +8 gear and +10 weapons can melee her way through the common mobs at the end of the game, doesnt mean she is able to do this the whole game. (or has the gear). Especially if using Power Attack. So no, hitting is not effortless. Its the Act3 Hotu which is really off balance. Then again, direct damage spells are useless there.

Nymie_the_Pooh · Post by **Nymie_the_Pooh** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:34 am

How many players pump up levels of sorceror and grab weapon master? Even at level twenty that +10 weapon you mention would just bring them even to hit assuming the character building toward weapon master only had access to basic weapons and the sorceror could get their hands on such a weapon. Pretty much anyone building a character to be a weapon master would have either full BAB or only be one or two points behind in BAB.

If we are talking about caster classes, then I agree. Most builds that are pure casters don't have the to hit to worry overly much about threat ranges. I was working under the assumption that the conversation was in relation to characters working toward being weapon masters in particular. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:40 am

Nymie_the_Pooh wrote:How many players pump up levels of sorceror and grab weapon master? Even at level twenty that +10 weapon you mention would just bring them even to hit assuming the character building toward weapon master only had access to basic weapons and the sorceror could get their hands on such a weapon. Pretty much anyone building a character to be a weapon master would have either full BAB or only be one or two points behind in BAB.

If we are talking about caster classes, then I agree. Most builds that are pure casters don't have the to hit to worry overly much about threat ranges. I was working under the assumption that the conversation was in relation to characters working toward being weapon masters in particular. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding.

I was under that impression too.

The slighty better damage of the Greatsword doesn't have a big impact at all, but if you want to recommend a weapon based on damage-capabilities (between Greataxe & Greatsword), then it is Greatsword.
Please do note that my original claim was that the higher threat range of a Scimitar/Kukri far outweighs the 3 extra damage from a Greataxe.

On average, critical damage from either weapon is the same, but given the sword's less erratic damage spikes, it will offer steadier damage. Less damage will be "wasted" with fewer, but bigger, crits against non-boss opponents. (I.e. a 40 HP enemy is as dead from a 44 dmg crit as from a 66 dmg crit.) Granted, the breakpoints in mob HP aren't always as clear-cut.

Don't forget that once in the epic levels, Devastating Blow (I think) effectively turns crits into "magic one-hit kill wonders".

Nymie_the_Pooh · Post by **Nymie_the_Pooh** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:38 pm

If we are including epic feats, then yeah, devastating critical is a fortitude save or die. Unlike pen and paper Vorpal is also on a critical and not a natural twenty. It's a reflex save instead of fortitude. One of the prerequisites is overwhelming critical which is an extra d6 per multiplier on damage on critical hits so even if the save is passed the extra damage goes through as long as the enemy isn't immune to critical hits. You have no choice but to take power attack and both cleaves if you want these so they may come rather late on a weapon master, but they are both really nice.

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:55 am

For Bioware modules any weapon discussion becomes pointless with levels and enchanted weapons. they become mere placeholders. The quest is to get there, and not even that it particularly hard in the OC. This whole discussion only makes sense on low magic lowlevel char. Then all the points apply. Both weapons have strong sides and please too note i didnt specifically advise not to take a greatsword, but a weapon granting solid damage output. Having spike damage is better for bosses, which is where the "66hp" crits count, and for generic mobs.. well it doesnt matter, they are dead either way.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:34 am

No, you adviced to take a Greataxe (You said "big axe", if you mean anything else, I apologise), which produces (a small bit) less damage than other options, and is more luck-dependant. If during the fight that you need the "spike", the "spike" never occurs, it's not much use. In the aforementioned (by you) lowlevel situation, that's even less than a 5% chance.

The6thMessenger · Post by **The6thMessenger** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:32 am

I suggest a bastard sword-Dwarven Waraxe, that'll shock your enemies.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:13 pm

What about the dual bladed thing? That would cost a feat but net you bigger damage at only -2 AB...

If you enchant it it counts for both hands, very good for a wizard fighter.