Planning for ToB

ke1 · Post by **ke1** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:12 am

I've played through SoA countless times but have never finished ToB. Whenever I try to start I always get distracted by something else and end up stopping prematurely. I am trying to plan out a PC and unsure of what's needed in the ToB content. Typically I've simply focused on raw power on my frontline fighters and found it makes the game quite easy after a certain point. I generally have just 1 mage and 1 cleric at any given time, and hardly ever use them for anything except the occasional buff or summoned creature. Does this strategy still fly in ToB (assuming hard difficulty)? Or is more magical might needed? How many mages do you usually want in your ToB party? Also, what kind of weapon do warriors need to be effective, in SoA +3 is fine for 99% of the content, is it different in ToB? What proficiencies are good to have? I remember bastard sword, maces(with one exception), flails(with one exception) being inferior in SoA. Last thing, how important are thieving skills? You can skate through SoA with just 100 or so in open locks and find traps. Is that applicable, do you need MORE thieving skills, or is a thief just plain dead weight?

Thanks for any help!

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:25 am

generally:

i go for a 2-2-2 minimum party construction, 2 tanks, 2 mages, 2 divine casters. since many of the npcs can fit 2 roles that leaves you with a party of pc + 3-4 npcs, then you can flex in whatever you want ie extra tank, mage, divine caster or a utility like a thief. imho a single class thief is a bit of overkill, but jan or a level-able thief will have some nice perks, imoen can be enough but may need to use +thief skills gear for some parts.

i'd prefer my tob thief to be a multi / dual class so that they have more to fall back on than just disarm traps & locks.

all things considered i'd rather have 3 mages vs just 1, if only for burst area effect damage. tob mas many more chances where you are fighting swarms of stuff, being able to nuke a room hard and fast is a plus.

weapons really don't matter too much, pretty much every weapon has a +5, flails imho came out really good in soa, flail of the ages, defender easthaven, a few other decent +2 morningstars. but i digress by the end of tob you'll have many +4 +5 somethings just sitting in your bag of holding. it couldn't hurt to look at the cespenar upgrades and see which items rely on the same components and make decisions from there. as always it makes sense to diversify your weapon skills so your whole party isn't reliant on one weapon type ie if you have 2 guys who want to dw katanas there likely still won't be enough to go around. and if you like to use ww / gww 2 handed weapons are prime for that.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:16 pm

Might I ask a question here? I'm closing in on ToB myself.

I read in the ToB manual that gems are used in the crafting in ToB; it mentions Rogue Stones, Emeralds, Star Rubies, etc. I'm wondering if there's enough of these throughout ToB, or should I hold onto the valuable gems I've collected in SoA? There's a few more items I'd like to purchase before going into ToB (I am about to return the Rynn Lanthorn), and I'm finding myself abit short on the money. Figured I'd sell off some gems I've been collecting, or would it be better to save them for ToB?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:01 pm

1. You never need more than 100 in open locks or remove traps.

2. There are powerful forms of every weapon type, although you should be able to get through to the end with the weapons you finish SoA with, or even the ones that you're given if you start a new game in ToB.

3. As you can complete the game with a solo character of any make up, it's up to your preferences which combination of party you use. Personally I prefer a four person party. Interacting with you guys over the last few days made me start playing again' my current party (been through BG1 and done D'arnise Keep and Thieves guild quests so far) is PC Barbarian, Viconia (using mod that makes her a Cleric/Assassin), Nalia and Garrick. I don't envisage changing that line-up other than for quest purposes. I've never understood why people prefer Imowimp, she's never as good as Nalia unless you fly straight to Spell Hold without doing any but the essential quests necessary to get there. You only really need one tank, with a dual purpose backup, Vici in my current case and one Arcane. The only reason I'm using Garrick is because he came through BG1 with me. I'm using BGT by the way. I would have kept Kivan as well if the mod hadn't refuse to load, in which case I wouldn't have bothered with Nalia. The worst aspect of her is her idiotic interjections, written no doubt by a Tea Party member who wanted to ridicule people with a social conscience!

4. There are gems to be found in ToB, but I usually keep some Rogue Stones, Andar gems and other gems, I'e never finished SoA without having more money than I could spend though. I can't imagine how anyone can reach Suldenessar (sp?) without being mega rich, obviously you don't have my magpie disease!

5. Straight thieves I always consider to be dead weights, if I wasn't using the Viconia mod tehn I'd either have Jan with me instead of Garrick, or one of the fighter thief NPC mods; unless of course my PC was some kind of dual/multi class thief. I have gone through the game with just Nalia as my thief, using knock and/or potions/items when necessary.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:49 am

galraen wrote:1. You never need more than 100 in open locks or remove traps.

2. There are powerful forms of every weapon type, although you should be able to get through to the end with the weapons you finish SoA with, or even the ones that you're given if you start a new game in ToB.

3. As you can complete the game with a solo character of any make up, it's up to your preferences which combination of party you use. Personally I prefer a four person party. Interacting with you guys over the last few days made me start playing again' my current party (been through BG1 and done D'arnise Keep and Thieves guild quests so far) is PC Barbarian, Viconia (using mod that makes her a Cleric/Assassin), Nalia and Garrick. I don't envisage changing that line-up other than for quest purposes. I've never understood why people prefer Imowimp, she's never as good as Nalia unless you fly straight to Spell Hold without doing any but the essential quests necessary to get there. You only really need one tank, with a dual purpose backup, Vici in my current case and one Arcane. The only reason I'm using Garrick is because he came through BG1 with me. I'm using BGT by the way. I would have kept Kivan as well if the mod hadn't refuse to load, in which case I wouldn't have bothered with Nalia. The worst aspect of her is her idiotic interjections, written no doubt by a Tea Party member who wanted to ridicule people with a social conscience!

4. There are gems to be found in ToB, but I usually keep some Rogue Stones, Andar gems and other gems, I'e never finished SoA without having more money than I could spend though. I can't imagine how anyone can reach Suldenessar (sp?) without being mega rich, obviously you don't have my magpie disease!

5. Straight thieves I always consider to be dead weights, if I wasn't using the Viconia mod tehn I'd either have Jan with me instead of Garrick, or one of the fighter thief NPC mods; unless of course my PC was some kind of dual/multi class thief. I have gone through the game with just Nalia as my thief, using knock and/or potions/items when necessary.

The thing is, the more party members you have, the more interactions and quests you'll get. I've actually rearranged my party multiple times just to try out someone new, see some of their interactions and maybe do their quest if they have one, then swap them out for someone else and never return to that character again.

The thing is that the game was designed with a 6-person party in mind, sure you can play it solo and miss out on all the amazing interactions and interesting characters if you like, but why anyone would want to do that is something I'll never understand.

Why Imoen? Well here's the thing; Imoen is a Mage/Thief, and Nalia is a Mage/Thief. Imoen is a level 7 thief and Nalia is a level 4 thief.

Nalia is basically an inferior version of Imoen, there's really no more to it. Except for the fact that Nalia is a whiny brat while Imoen is actually a rather decent and interesting character, not to mention she's the first character you find in BG1 and sticks with you through everything. I've always been very fond of her, I guess not everyone feels the same though.

Actually I'm also a scavenger when it comes to money; hell I STILL pick up Long/Composite Bows and normal chain mails to sell.

But I also do stupid stuff; sometimes I sell items that I later realize I'd like to have and buy them back, I also frequently buy scrolls, and buy pretty much every item of some value I come across... I also try to avoid cheesy ways of making money, for example the Sahaguin Priestess in the City-of-Caverns will buy items from you at like 10 times the normal rate, and thus I never sold anything to her since that would've made me filthy rich.

Thanks for the advice.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:06 am

If you do any of the side quests before going to Spell Hold Nali is the better mage, she'll be at least one level, and usually two or more, higher than Imoen; both are inadequate thieves without potion/item boosts so I don't understand anyone thinking Imoen is better when she patently isn't. Personality choices of course are a different thing, and if you prefer Imoen's personality that's all that matters.

I said that although I like a four person party, I do pick up other NPC's and help them with their problems as much as I can (in other words do their quests), so I do get to enjoy their input. Well except for
Analman, I can't stand that creep. Also with the number if times I've played this game I've adventured with all of them, including slimeball for long enough to find out what a chaotic evil freak he is!

I do sell stuff to the Sahaugin merchant, I don't understand why you wouldn't, I draw the line at selling - buying back - selling again though! It seems reasonable to me that she would offer the best prices, she's in a remote cut off environment, natural rules of supply and demand prevail.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:53 am

galraen wrote:If you do any of the side quests before going to Spell Hold Nali is the better mage, she'll be at least one level, and usually two or more, higher than Imoen; both are inadequate thieves without potion/item boosts so I don't understand anyone thinking Imoen is better when she patently isn't. Personality choices of course are a different thing, and if you prefer Imoen's personality that's all that matters.

I said that although I like a four person party, I do pick up other NPC's and help them with their problems as much as I can (in other words do their quests), so I do get to enjoy their input. Well except for
Analman, I can't stand that creep. Also with the number if times I've played this game I've adventured with all of them, including slimeball for long enough to find out what a chaotic evil freak he is!

I do sell stuff to the Sahaugin merchant, I don't understand why you wouldn't, I draw the line at selling - buying back - selling again though! It seems reasonable to me that she would offer the best prices, she's in a remote cut off environment, natural rules of supply and demand prevail.

I suppose. Imoen has a bit better open locks and detect traps abilities, though, so technically don't need as many item boosts as Nalia.

Hmm yes, I must've missed that part.

Doing it that way makes sense, indeed. But a question; who is this "analman"? I think the "slimeball" must be Korgan, aye, but analman? Do elaborate.

You're absolutely right, it does make sense that she'd have better prices, I simply like to challenge myself to not make the game become too easy.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:48 am

Analman and Slimeball = Anomen

If you want fun banter, try having Korgan and Mazzy in the same party.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:34 pm

galraen wrote:Analman and Slimeball = Anomen

If you want fun banter, try having Korgan and Mazzy in the same party.

Anomen? Hah! I know he's not the nicest person in the game, but a "chaotic evil freak"? Anomen only ever becomes Chaotic Neutral, and only if he fails his test... If you take the lawful path, he becomes a rather decent fellow honestly. Sure, his dialogues wont change, but atleast his speech becomes abit better and more optimistic if you have the g3 fixpack installed. I was hoping that his dialouges would be different aswell, but it seems like another thing the developers either didn't have time to implement or couldn't be arsed with. Hopefully he will turn out better in ToB.

He IS mighty annoying, agreed...I was tempted to just dump him, myself, but everytime I was about to, some quest of his would start and you'd get to know him better. I'd urge people to atleast give him a chance.

Aye, Mazzy will probably tag along for awhile in an evil party of mine. As will Anomen, probably...I want to see the Chaotic Neutral version aswell... Anomen, honestly, went from a whiny brat to one of the game's most interesting characters for me. Not to mention his Fighter dual class makes him highly versatile and quite powerful.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:04 pm

Anomen only ever becomes Chaotic Neutral

Bioware/Black Isle's interpretation of alignment was just about the worst part of the development of the game.

Anomen who;s motto is 'Think only of yourself' Lawful Neutral wit pretensions to being good!? Yeah right; almost as credible as Minsc the Psychopath being good!

PS I think Anomen is a reincarnation of Arnold Rimmer, or is it the other way around?

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:48 pm

galraen wrote:If you do any of the side quests before going to Spell Hold Nali is the better mage, she'll be at least one level, and usually two or more, higher than Imoen; both are inadequate thieves without potion/item boosts so I don't understand anyone thinking Imoen is better when she patently isn't. Personality choices of course are a different thing, and if you prefer Imoen's personality that's all that matters.

imoen is actually decent as a thief, she'll need boosts from time to time, but not every time. nalia otoh seems to need them every time.

I said that although I like a four person party, I do pick up other NPC's and help them with their problems as much as I can (in other words do their quests), so I do get to enjoy their input.

with a 4 person party it does make more sense to rely on nalia, as it would be easy to spike her level up much higher than immy's prior to the spellhold encounter.with a 6 person group, you can get to imoen before the level gap between nalia and immy gets too high. and really once they hit the 20's that gap won't mean too much.

Well except for
Analman, I can't stand that creep. Also with the number if times I've played this game I've adventured with all of them, including slimeball for long enough to find out what a chaotic evil freak he is!

anoman gets a bad rap, he's actually quite useful.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:15 pm

galraen wrote:Bioware/Black Isle's interpretation of alignment was just about the worst part of the development of the game.

Anomen who;s motto is 'Think only of yourself' Lawful Neutral wit pretensions to being good!? Yeah right; almost as credible as Minsc the Psychopath being good!

PS I think Anomen is a reincarnation of Arnold Rimmer, or is it the other way around?

That's subject to interpretation. I think most of the characters in the game are quite true to their alignments.

Minsc is a psycopath? Minsc does what Minsc thinks is right which is typical Chaotic Good behavior. Just because he occassionally goes berserk and maybe even kills someone innocent during his berserking spree, he'd never intend for that to happen. Chaotic Good people have the capacity for causing havoc, but they never mean to hurt anyone; they might do just that however but solely because of their chaotic nature. Their intention is always good, and Minsc wants nothing more than to protect the downtrodden and smite evil, but his methods are not always the best.

Anomen is a very conflicted character. His will to do the right thing constantly clashes with the abuse he's recieved from his father which makes him spiteful and not-so-pleasant. Mostly he is very insecure. The cause for that insecurity is obviously from all the abuse he's taken. He's trying to escape the writhing clutches of his father because deep down he knows that his father is a raving idiot, but he dares not. It takes alot of guts to walk out on family, especially if you have nowhere to go, which Anomen doesn't. Besides, the choice is ultimately yours what path he takes and it's fairly easy to see what the best course of action is.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Minsc is a psychopath?

He certainly is, I realised this right after he murdered Imoen and Branwen and tried to murder my PC the first time I played BG1.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:48 am

galraen wrote:He certainly is, I realised this right after he murdered Imoen and Branwen and tried to murder my PC the first time I played BG1.

Ah, yes, that. That's if you refuse his quest when you first meet him which is rather stupid, agreed. It's also pretty much an isolated incident, if I recall, and I don't think the developers really knew themselves what they wanted to do with him, there. He was even Neutral Good in BG1 aswell I think, while it was rather obvious he should've been Chaotic. Can't say I've seen him behave out of his alignment aside from that, though. Generally if you stick to the Good or Neutral path you shouldn't have anything to fear from Minsc.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:54 am

I didn't refuse his quest, I just made the mistake of going in slightly the wrong direction, went south instead of west as I recall. we've taken this way off topic, although I think the original reason for the thread has been answered, but best for me to let my hatred of Minsc drop.

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:33 pm

galraen wrote:
5. Straight thieves I always consider to be dead weights, if I wasn't using the Viconia mod tehn I'd either have Jan with me instead of Garrick, or one of the fighter thief NPC mods; unless of course my PC was some kind of dual/multi class thief. I have gone through the game with just Nalia as my thief, using knock and/or potions/items when necessary.

Straight thieves are not that bad. Less so in BG2, but still having 200+ stealth values coupled with haste boots is a free, really free scout, and 5x damage pretty much every round. Run around the corner, backstab, return. Being a thief they get the most HLA in the game, and get access, aside from UAI to spike traps, the ultimate damage dealer. I cant think of anything which isnt instantly killed by it, although pretty im pretty sure there are some. Granted i speak only from bg1 and ps:t experience, but they are absurdly powerful there (enemies have lower run speed)