Multiclasses gaining HLAs sooner...

[NocturneN]

When I was still in SoA, I kept wondering how a multiclassed character would fare in ToB. I thought you'd only be able to get a few HLAs, but as I took Aerie along with me, I soon discovered that this wasn't the case, ofcourse.

And I'm wondering... Why? Doesn't giving multiclassed characters HLAs sooner completely defeat the purpose of playing a single or dual-classed character? Okay so casters and mages are probably better off dual or single-classed due to the fact that they gain additional spell slots for higher levels - generally scaling much better than fighters and thieves - but I've been thinking about a Fighter / Thief combo for my next char, and I can honestly not see any reason to NOT multiclass. Fighters max out their thac0 at level 21, after that, it becomes pointless to level up bar for the HLAs...which they will get sooner as a multiclass, thus eliminating the advantage of singleclass fighters entirely!

It seems like it's the same story with thieves, really, and as a Fighter/Thief you won't even need to reach their final thac0, you only miss out on thieveing skill points. I struggle to grasp the logic behind this, can anyone explain to me why a singleclassed (or kitted and then dualled!) Fighter or Thief would be better?

[Claudius]

It would kinda bite to not get HLAs till really late for a multi-class. Triple class characters definitely need something. I think it is the best of two evils or at least one or the other of evils.

[galraen]

I think the early HLAs only kick in for multi classes that include clerics, or at least that's been my experience.

[NocturneN]

It would kinda bite to not get HLAs till really late for a multi-class. Triple class characters definitely need something. I think it is the best of two evils or at least one or the other of evils.

That's kinda the point. If you play a tripple-class, you're playing the proverbial jack-of-all-trades-character - someone who studies so many different trades/lifestyles shouldn't be able to specialize. This is also true, somewhat, for multiclasses.

I'm not saying multiclasses shouldn't be allowed HLAs, just that they shouldn't be able to have as many as a single-classed character!

I think the early HLAs only kick in for multi classes that include clerics, or at least that's been my experience.

If that's so, I guess more research on my part is necessary. Sadly, Aerie was the only multiclassed character that I brought with me...

[Claudius]

I think they should have more exactly because they are a jack of all trades. They will level slowly and won't get to high levels in their second and third classes. Fighter gets Thac0 0 pretty early and thus multi-class doesn't hurt a fighter much. But mage and thief multi-classes do suffer from less levels and thus I think to offset that they should get more HLAs.

For example a pure mage or F/M is more powerful by far than a F/M/T. So I like how the latter gets something to even the gap.

Just a difference of opinion.

[galraen]

I wish they'd limited HLAs to just straight fighters and thieves (excluding UAI), no HLAs for dual or mutli classes, and definitely no HLAs for Mages, and preferably not for clerics or Druids either.

[NocturneN]

I think they should have more exactly because they are a jack of all trades. They will level slowly and won't get to high levels in their second and third classes. Fighter gets Thac0 0 pretty early and thus multi-class doesn't hurt a fighter much. But mage and thief multi-classes do suffer from less levels and thus I think to offset that they should get more HLAs.

For example a pure mage or F/M is more powerful by far than a F/M/T. So I like how the latter gets something to even the gap.

Just a difference of opinion.

I've been messing around with a Fighter/Thief in Shadowkeeper, and at level 24/28 (8,000,000 xp), I had access to 22 HLAs. I could've miscalculated, but he started gaining HLAs around level 15-16 (Singleclass Fighter starts at 21, Thief at 24). Minsc, Ranger, starts gaining HLAs at level 18, and by the time he had maxed level, he only had 16. Again, I suck at math, but I believe those numbers to be largely correct.

The only benefit that a singleclass Fighter gets from levelling beyond level 21 IS the HLAs. There's pretty much no reason to go higher, bar the extra hp. As such, giving a Fighter/Thief HLAs sooner completely erases any advantage that a singleclass Fighter has! The same is true for Thieves aswell; As a Multiclass Thief you can get just as many HLAs as a singleclass Thief, an do you really need all those extra skill points?

There's many times I've wished that I'd just rolled a multiclass Fighter/Mage instead of this dualclass I have. As Galraen states, Mages are so powerful they don't really need the HLAs anyway. Infact, I found myself using Timestop/Chain Contingency/Shapechange etc far more than the HLAs. Sure, Improved Alacrity. But Mages could certainly do without that one. Yes, sharing xp with the Fighter class hurts, but come on. What Mage wouldn't want to have good thac0 and damage? Okay, it's not like they need it, but I'd say the pros of having a Fighter class vastly outweights the cons of not reaching as high levels. I got my third level 9 spell at level 22, I think. The difference between a level 22 Mage and a level 31 Mage is just that the latter can cast one more spell per day...

To me, it seems like the major disadvantage of rolling a Fighter/Thief over a dualclass would be that you get far less proficensies. That could hurt alot, and ofcourse levelling slower. But I mean a Thief with fighter HLAs...imagine; Backstab, then blow GWW.

I'm all for different opinions, Claudius, but there's no reason we can't debate this peacefully.

[galraen]

The reason for the discrepency is that Bioware based when you get HLAs on xp, not level .... I'd better not go any further