I don't know if its lack of people submitting a bit of advice or whether its self-evident how much of a freaking tank this character can be, but...anyway, either way, I'm finding my Dwarven Defender to be a lot cheaper to run on healing potions than anything else!
Anyway, the first thing to note about the DD is the hit dice; d12. This means you get a HEAP of HP, especially if you manage a high CON. I opted for a Ranger/DD because I could get the benefits of some stealth, set traps (traps are so negected as a way of totally ruling EVERYTHING, but thats a separate issue), and did I mention two weapons? I guess that you should try a Fighter/DD so you can wear tanky armour but the strategy bears out when you consider a level 10 DD gets damage resistance. It doesn' matter how crap your AC is when, with the right magic item (Amulet of Evil gives shadow armour), you can soak 15-20 damage right off the bat.
For instance, in my battle with the Valsharess, the damn elf's magic was pretty terrible at gibbing me, but once i survived that I took 0 points of damage from her ****y whipping (shadow armour made me immune to negative energy). Anyway, I think you get my point.
The other point is the defensive stance, which adds 2 to your STR, CON, and so forth. At level 27, an extra 2 CON is 27HP...
In terms of doing a pure DD build without trying to do fancy Ranger stuff, the class is obviously intended to be a tank, so you would do Fighter till LVL 7, DD till level 18 (to get your Lvl10 DD and immunity to knockdown, damage soak, etc), then pack on as much HP as you can.
STATS
Stat wise, I went with DEX, and weapon finesse so I could have a greater swordsmans belt versus a belt of Hill Giant Strength, and bracers of Dexterity. But in pure form, you'd definitely pack on the CON and STR and sit in the heaviest suit of plate mail money could buy, behind a +6 shield. Wisdom is important, because it gives you the ability to disregard the only thing which can stuff you round; mind controls and daze,spells, etc. Having a high Will save is important for avoiding magical punishment.
SKILLS
Skills-wise, I've messed around with set traps, etc, as a consequence of being a Ranger, but since you are immune to knockdown, you can keep a low Discipline and really all you need to spend skill points on is Tumble, to ramp up your AC. I found the Ranger route quite useful as the defensive stance is a static position; you can't move once you set it off. So if you can sneak in close to an enemy and set up, it helps maximise the AC and HP bonuses of the Defensive Stance.
I think, also, a few levels of Rogue would be worth it to either ramp yur Tumble up, or in the very least get a high Use Magic Device so you can actually do something with all the cool toys you pick up.
FEATS
Going the ranger route you pretty much get free two weapon fighting; the other route would obviously be to get Exotic Weapons feat and a dwarven war axe and go for it. Feats such as Mobility, Dodge are required to get into the DD prestige class so you have to get those, but beyond that Toughness, Improved Criticals are the way to go, and if not a Ranger, weapon specialisation is essential in whichever weapon you want. You can't neccessarily emulate the Weaponmaster in toto, but if you keep a set of weapons and add acid damage to kick Mephisto, you can get a good weapon and keep it and max it up with feats.
You can also get expertise or disarm. I haven't gone that route, but it would be particularly useful to a DD in that you can neutralise the enemy's weapon and further decrease their damage, or with expertise, you've got the luxury of time to wear them down.
The other point here with the ranger is the favoured enemies; you can really ramp your benefits up against your major opponents by 10 levels of Ranger, ie; dwarves, elves, outsiders.
The disadvanage of the rager is, obviously, a hit of about 6AC on heavier armours and more if you use 2 weapons due to the loss of the shield. However, with planning and a higher Dex, I still got to AC_39 which isn't a problem due to the damage soaking.
EPIC FEATS
Epic feats should be spent on Epic Toughness (more HP) and on energy resistance or extra CON. Epic Criticals is also a good way of ramping up your damage-daling capabilities, but really epic resistance will eventually make you immune to magic even as you have become somewhat immune to physical damage.
Hope someone finds this inspiring to make a dwarven defender. They are pretty cool as far as tanky characters go.
Anyone else lurve their Dwarf Defenders?
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Galuf the Dwarf
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Yeah, I've been hoping to - at some point - play a Dwarf Fighter/Dwarven Defender.
A number of the things you suggest seem rather sound, I must say.
Two things, though:
1) What would you suggest as far as a melee weapon?
2) Is a Fighter/Dwarven Defender really meant for HotU, or would it also work in the Original Campaign (and continue into HotU from there)?
A number of the things you suggest seem rather sound, I must say.
Two things, though:
1) What would you suggest as far as a melee weapon?
2) Is a Fighter/Dwarven Defender really meant for HotU, or would it also work in the Original Campaign (and continue into HotU from there)?
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
I guess the fighter/dwarven defender would go the STR/CON route with heavy armour, so the only real question is a shield/weapon combo or a double-axe, dire mace, scythe?
For a shield/weapon kit out, there are some pretty impressive unique dwarven war axes, which require exotic weapons feat to use, but its probably worth it because you can also keep a decent double axe or other exotic weapon around as a second weapon kit out (just put your shield-sword on F7 and the double axe on a shift-F7, etc). Either that or a katana.
I'm using the rapier of the high road with 2d6 acid damage added by the magic smith dude (because its acid damage required to whip Mephi). This weapon is Keen, even though its only a d6 weapon. Its advantage over a longsword is, basically, that it crits on a 17-20. If you can find or make a Keen katana, and add 2d6 acid damage to it in HotU, you'd be set. I'd suggest making one, starting with a Katana +5 or +4 and racking up the bonuses via money.
The thing with Keen weapons is, you can also get Improved Crit feat, and EpicCriticals, and, basically, you'll be doing crits almost every round. They also tend to double the acid damage. A katana doing 2d10 + 2d6 acid would e pretty neat.
As for going the fighter/defender in Shadows of Undrentide, not really worth it because you won't make it to level 10 Defender and get the full benefits. For the original NWN campaign, it is probably worth it, though you do need the Greater Swordsmans Belt for when you get to the final scenes with those two annoying dragons. Let alone the other dragons. Let alone the scaly wench herself...
And...maybe you could even manage a Paladin/Defender, though the conflict in prime stats and rthe dwarfs charisma penalty would make it tricky. However, the ability to whip out Smite Evil, to dismiss undead, cast some spells, use some magic items, and the ability to raise charisma with a nymph cloak +6 (in HoTU at least) would make this bearable, least of all the ability to use some Good Only weapons I'm currently not able to use with my LN dwarf.
For a shield/weapon kit out, there are some pretty impressive unique dwarven war axes, which require exotic weapons feat to use, but its probably worth it because you can also keep a decent double axe or other exotic weapon around as a second weapon kit out (just put your shield-sword on F7 and the double axe on a shift-F7, etc). Either that or a katana.
I'm using the rapier of the high road with 2d6 acid damage added by the magic smith dude (because its acid damage required to whip Mephi). This weapon is Keen, even though its only a d6 weapon. Its advantage over a longsword is, basically, that it crits on a 17-20. If you can find or make a Keen katana, and add 2d6 acid damage to it in HotU, you'd be set. I'd suggest making one, starting with a Katana +5 or +4 and racking up the bonuses via money.
The thing with Keen weapons is, you can also get Improved Crit feat, and EpicCriticals, and, basically, you'll be doing crits almost every round. They also tend to double the acid damage. A katana doing 2d10 + 2d6 acid would e pretty neat.
As for going the fighter/defender in Shadows of Undrentide, not really worth it because you won't make it to level 10 Defender and get the full benefits. For the original NWN campaign, it is probably worth it, though you do need the Greater Swordsmans Belt for when you get to the final scenes with those two annoying dragons. Let alone the other dragons. Let alone the scaly wench herself...
And...maybe you could even manage a Paladin/Defender, though the conflict in prime stats and rthe dwarfs charisma penalty would make it tricky. However, the ability to whip out Smite Evil, to dismiss undead, cast some spells, use some magic items, and the ability to raise charisma with a nymph cloak +6 (in HoTU at least) would make this bearable, least of all the ability to use some Good Only weapons I'm currently not able to use with my LN dwarf.
What level can you get to in shadows of Undrentide? I was thinking of playing a Dwarven Defender (DD) that started as a cleric8/fighter1. I hoped to get to level 6 DD.
I also want to use a double headed axe and I wondered if I would need the two weapon fighting and ambidexterity feat?
I also want to use a double headed axe and I wondered if I would need the two weapon fighting and ambidexterity feat?
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
with an awareness imbued with good will.
I figured Cleric would drop 2 BAB but would get some nifty spells. Make it a spellsword and not a caster. It's been a long time since I built NWN1 characters... even a long time since NWN2 for that matter.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
You'll have an atrociously low caster level, which means that the nifty spells you get, aren't really worth much, due to low effect and duration. Offensive spells will even be useless. The NWN PrC pack adds Practised Spellcaster, which raises Caster Level by 4, but even then the spells aren't really worthwhile by lvl 20.
There's also the fact that now you have add points to WIS.
Basic D&D Clerics are already in effect spellswords.
There's also the fact that now you have add points to WIS.
Basic D&D Clerics are already in effect spellswords.
Hmmm maybe so. I don't suppose the AI would dispel me. But the durations of spells might not be great. Still I only sacrifice 2 BAB.
There were some epic character builds that didn't have full cleric casting.
There were some epic character builds that didn't have full cleric casting.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Domains: earth, healing http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Cleric_domains
earth: turn elementals, 4th level stoneskin
healing: cure serious wounds 2nd level + empowered healing which works on potions!
8 hours of stoneskin isn't bad, the value would be 80 HP which is 20 lower than the max. That would be an earth domain cleric (earth for dwarf).
There are a lot of 1 turn/level buffs at first level and 8 hour protection from alignment. bless, divine favor, entropic shield, +3 deflection on shield of faith, remove fear 10 turns (which is awesome because it is prophylactic).
2nd level: 8 hours of endurance, bull's strength, Ultravision 8 hours + darkness combo... Ok 2nd level not as good as first, cure seriuous wounds
3rd: clarity 1 turn (even high level caster doesn't get much more than 1 turn because it scales poorly, Darkfire for 8 hours !! , magic vestment 8 hours, Animate dead 24 hours!
4th: Death Ward 8 hours, Freedom of movement 8 turns, Hammer of the Gods (save is for blinding affect not damage I think), Stoneskin (earth domain) 80 pts 8 hours, summon creature 4, Divine Power (short only 8 rounds, but better than nothing)..
So I think that those spells are very valuable. I will only have the dwarf or half-orc companion with me so this Dwarven Defender/ Cleric may be a major source of buffs.
earth: turn elementals, 4th level stoneskin
healing: cure serious wounds 2nd level + empowered healing which works on potions!
8 hours of stoneskin isn't bad, the value would be 80 HP which is 20 lower than the max. That would be an earth domain cleric (earth for dwarf).
There are a lot of 1 turn/level buffs at first level and 8 hour protection from alignment. bless, divine favor, entropic shield, +3 deflection on shield of faith, remove fear 10 turns (which is awesome because it is prophylactic).
2nd level: 8 hours of endurance, bull's strength, Ultravision 8 hours + darkness combo... Ok 2nd level not as good as first, cure seriuous wounds
3rd: clarity 1 turn (even high level caster doesn't get much more than 1 turn because it scales poorly, Darkfire for 8 hours !! , magic vestment 8 hours, Animate dead 24 hours!
4th: Death Ward 8 hours, Freedom of movement 8 turns, Hammer of the Gods (save is for blinding affect not damage I think), Stoneskin (earth domain) 80 pts 8 hours, summon creature 4, Divine Power (short only 8 rounds, but better than nothing)..
So I think that those spells are very valuable. I will only have the dwarf or half-orc companion with me so this Dwarven Defender/ Cleric may be a major source of buffs.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Stoneskin is a good catch. It's only 1x/day, since it's a domain spell. (But NWN might diverge from P&P rules here.)
Divine Favour just gives back on a re-castable, finite, shorter term, what Fighter would give anyway.
Lvl 3/4 Summons aren't relevant by lvl 20.
Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith get overridden by equipment. (+5 on gear is normal on lvl 20.)
Divine Power is useless. (Gives BAB as Fighter of caster level Cleric...) I assume your STR is going to be 18 and higher anyway.
The stat boost spells should not stack with equipment, and equipment provides FAR better, and far less random bonuses. NWN might let these stack, though.
Offensive spells are useless due to SR of enemies and your low WIS, and the general diminished effect.
Again, Cleric forces you to have at least 14 WIS.
The healing spells aren't so good either, again due to lower caster level, and also due to the abudancy of First Aid kits. Healing in Combat with these is also more reliable than spells.
And keep in mind that you don't have a lot of spellslots either.
I'm all for spellsword builds, but especially in D&D they need plenty of the "spell" side.
Divine Favour just gives back on a re-castable, finite, shorter term, what Fighter would give anyway.
Lvl 3/4 Summons aren't relevant by lvl 20.
Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith get overridden by equipment. (+5 on gear is normal on lvl 20.)
Divine Power is useless. (Gives BAB as Fighter of caster level Cleric...) I assume your STR is going to be 18 and higher anyway.
The stat boost spells should not stack with equipment, and equipment provides FAR better, and far less random bonuses. NWN might let these stack, though.
Offensive spells are useless due to SR of enemies and your low WIS, and the general diminished effect.
Again, Cleric forces you to have at least 14 WIS.
The healing spells aren't so good either, again due to lower caster level, and also due to the abudancy of First Aid kits. Healing in Combat with these is also more reliable than spells.
And keep in mind that you don't have a lot of spellslots either.
I'm all for spellsword builds, but especially in D&D they need plenty of the "spell" side.
Some things are different in NWN1
There are a lot of useful first level spells, some good second such as ultravision/darkness, bull strength, and endurance. Third level spells are not that great but darkflame is good and give it to henchman too. Fourth level you have stoneskin.
The game is masochistic (SoU). I am fighting a room full of basillisks with a team that can't cast stone to flesh. Next room is huge amounts of Slaad. I am going to have to set the difficulty
Edit: this game is too hard. It isn't especially interesting either. I am going to level my guy up to 20 and just level casually. That's just to finish before I never ever play SoU again. I did like some things like the desert adventure with the oasis.
- domain spells can be taken more than once
- armor/weapons is not plentiful in SoU (I am level 9 fighting slaad with no magic weapon (because I want double axe and I can just use greater magic weapon) and +1 magic armor
- Yes divine power is useless. But not for a high level character who dropped a lot of BAB (not my build)
- Stats stack I think. Bull's strength seems to stack with gauntlets of ogre power.
- yes no offensive spells
There are a lot of useful first level spells, some good second such as ultravision/darkness, bull strength, and endurance. Third level spells are not that great but darkflame is good and give it to henchman too. Fourth level you have stoneskin.
The game is masochistic (SoU). I am fighting a room full of basillisks with a team that can't cast stone to flesh. Next room is huge amounts of Slaad. I am going to have to set the difficulty
Edit: this game is too hard. It isn't especially interesting either. I am going to level my guy up to 20 and just level casually. That's just to finish before I never ever play SoU again. I did like some things like the desert adventure with the oasis.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
If you have Weapon Focus with a specific weapon, the hoard behind the Manticore in the desertcaves always yields a +1 weapon of that type. (At least for me it did.)
I'm also pretty sure that at least +1 armour is being sold somewhere quite early.
If you're a meleefighter (which you seem to be), then taking Deeking along is a very good idea, since he buffs you and can debuff the enemy quite well, especially at early levels. Be sure to give him a crossbow, though.
I'm also pretty sure that at least +1 armour is being sold somewhere quite early.
If you're a meleefighter (which you seem to be), then taking Deeking along is a very good idea, since he buffs you and can debuff the enemy quite well, especially at early levels. Be sure to give him a crossbow, though.
Oh cool, I didn't realize I could take deekin. Yeah I misspoke myself on the armor. I did have +1 Halfplate. In the final chapter I got +3 chain which was equal, but lighter.
I'm going to make another post about difficulty of SoU, but I found the game really hard with this build. I played another character 8-10 years ago that used mestil's acid sheath to beat the blue and red slaads near the portal. I never noticed a chest in the manticore board, but I did get to a treasure room if that is what you are talking about. I didn't have weapon focus.
I'm going to make another post about difficulty of SoU, but I found the game really hard with this build. I played another character 8-10 years ago that used mestil's acid sheath to beat the blue and red slaads near the portal. I never noticed a chest in the manticore board, but I did get to a treasure room if that is what you are talking about. I didn't have weapon focus.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Any idea what a good Dwarven Defender build would be? I could take fighter 7 which would be to compare 10th level (where the slaads kill me):
F1Cleric8DD1
versus
F7DD3
I tend to think the top build would be better to be honest. Any idea if my DD is bad or if all DDs are bad?
I took feats: 1: ambidexterity, two weapon fighting. 3: exotic weapons 6: toughness 9:dodge
Later I planned 12: Improved TWF 15: improved critical double axe 18: weapon focus double axe 20(fighter level): blindfighting.
I was going to play HotU with a DD30F2Cleric8 which would be a mountain of HP and DR 40
F1Cleric8DD1
versus
F7DD3
I tend to think the top build would be better to be honest. Any idea if my DD is bad or if all DDs are bad?
I took feats: 1: ambidexterity, two weapon fighting. 3: exotic weapons 6: toughness 9:dodge
Later I planned 12: Improved TWF 15: improved critical double axe 18: weapon focus double axe 20(fighter level): blindfighting.
I was going to play HotU with a DD30F2Cleric8 which would be a mountain of HP and DR 40
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
DD's best focus on their strong suits, that being defense. Axe & Shield would be way less painful.
I have said it before, and I'll say it again: going Cleric forces you to spend precious points on WIS, for a minor gain overal in capability. In HotU, the Cleric spells will be even more irrelevant.
If I were you, I'd take a look at the PrC unofficial mod: it adds tons of useful feats and PrCs.
I have said it before, and I'll say it again: going Cleric forces you to spend precious points on WIS, for a minor gain overal in capability. In HotU, the Cleric spells will be even more irrelevant.
If I were you, I'd take a look at the PrC unofficial mod: it adds tons of useful feats and PrCs.
Hmmmmm did you see my other thread? I am planning to take 20 levels of cleric in that one. Your not saying clerics in general are weak? I thought they were the most powerful class other than Bigbys middle finger wielding mages.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Does anyone have a build or ideas for a Dwarven Defender build?
I'm thinking Bard 5 RDD 10 DD X?
Or a dwarven cleric melee build (or suggestions)
The build is for HotU so it won't get to 40
I'm thinking Bard 5 RDD 10 DD X?
Or a dwarven cleric melee build (or suggestions)
The build is for HotU so it won't get to 40
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.