All missiles - Arrows, Bolts, Bullets, Darts are rewarded in quantities of 20
RANK 1:
Creatures encountered: Beetle, Skeleton, Skeleton Archer, Zombie, Zombie Lord, Giant Viper, Spotted Lion, Carrion Crawler, Yeti, Phase Spider, Salamander, Elite Neo Orog, Otyugh, Shadow, Greater Boneguard
For completing a level:
Pearl + 100-300 gold
or
Item: Sure Strike Darts or Sure Strike Arrows or Sure Strike Bullets or Bullets +1 or Darts +1 or Arrows +1 or Arrows of Lesser Dispelling or Darts of Wounding or Bullets of Wounding or Shock Darts or Target Arrows or Cure Light Wounds Scroll or Magic Missiles Scroll or Protection From Cold Scroll or Potion of Aid or Minor Mirror Image Potion
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Armour of Faith will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Dragon's Belt... which gives the wearer +3 to Reflex Saves
RANK 2:
Creatures encountered: Beetle, Spotted Lion, Otyugh, Yeti, Phase Spider, Sword Spider, Shambling Mound, Giant Viper, Salamander, Cyclops, Zombie Lord, Umber Hulk, Greater Boneguard, Scrag, Shadow
For completing a level:
Sphene + 200-600 gold
or
Item: Arrows +2 or Darts +2 or Bullets +2 or Stunning Arrows +1 or Stun Bullets +1 or Acid Tipped Darts or Bullets of Corrosive Burst or Keen Arrows or Returning Frost Dart or Minor Elemental Barrier Scroll or Blur Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Good Luck will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Potion of Holy Transference... which gives the drinker a permanent +2 to Wisdom and -1 to Dexterity.
RANK 3:
Creatures encountered: Beetle, Rhinocerus Beetle, Phase Spider, Sword Spider, Mummy King, Zombie Lord, Greater Boneguard, Barrow Wight, Scrag, Frost Giant, Cyclops, Umber Hulk, Shambling Mound, Shadow
For completing a level:
Black Opal + 300-900 gold
or
Item: Bolt +3 or Darts +3 or Bullets +3 or Sparking Bullets +1 or Sparking Bolts +1 or Sparking Arrows +1 or Arrows of Flame +1 or Flaming Bolts +1 or Corrosive Bolts +1 or Corrosive Arrows +1 or Frost Bolts +1 or Frost Arrows +1 or Frost Bullets +1 or Tranquil Bolts or Negative Energy Protection Scroll or Haste Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Strength of One will be cast on your Party
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Abishai Hide... which gives the wearer a set of Medium Armour with an Armour Bonus of +3, a Max Dex Bonus of +4, weight of 15lb, Damage Reduction of 5/+1, wearable by anyone.
RANK 4:
Creatures encountered: Rhinoceros Beetle, Sword Spider, Shambling Mound, Scrag, Cyclops, Umber Hulk, Mummy King, Barrow Wight, Frost Giant, Greater Feyr, Red Abishai, Water Elemental, Greater Werewolf, Shadow
For completing a level:
Water Opal + 400-1200 gold
or
Item: Arrows +4 or Darts +4 or Bolts +4 or Bullets +4 or Arrows of Dispelling or Arrows of Piercing or Holdfast Arrows or Arrows of Biting or Darts of Infatuation or Darts of Stunning or Protection from Lightning Scroll or Improved Invisibility Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Stoneskin will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Boots of Grounding... which gives the wearer 6/- to Electrical Resistance
RANK 5:
Creatures encountered: Rhinoceros Beetle, Barrow Wight, Mummy King, Drowned Dead, Greater Werewolf, Greater Feyr, Frost Giant, Remorhaz, Red Abishai, Water Elemental, Shadow
For completing a level:
Moonbar + 500-1500 gold
or
Item: Bolts +5 or Bullets +5 or Arrows +5 or Glacial Darts +4 or Keen Flaming Burst Darts or Force Bullets or Stunning Arrows +1 or Stunning Bullets +1 or Stunning Bolts +1 or Summon Monster V Scroll or Cure Critical Wounds Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Shield of Lathander will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Throwing Axe of Shocking Burst... which gives the wielder a +3 returning axe which has additional electrical damage
RANK 6:
For completing a level:
Creatures encountered: Greater Feyr, Frost Giant, Greater Werewolf, Drowned Dead, Cornugon, Red Abishai, Remorhaz, Water Elemental, Elder Air Elemental, Shadow
Diamond + 600-1800 gold
or
Item: Missiles: Same as Rank 5 or Heal Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Regenerating (troll-like fortitude) will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Club of Disruption... which gives the wielder a +3 Mace that has +5 Enchantment and the ability to destroy undead and outsiders on impact.
RANK 7:
For completing a level:
Emerald + 700-2100 gold
or
Item: Missiles: Same as Rank 5 or Mist of Eldath Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Seven Eyes will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Ice Spear +4... which gives the wielder a +4 Polearm which can cast Icelance 1/day
RANK 8:
For completing a level:
Star Sapphire + 800-2400 gold
or
Item: Zilzanzer's Magnificent Dart or Destruction Scroll or Great Shout Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Divine Shell will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Composite Longbow of Empowerment... which gives the wielder a +2 to damage and +1 to attack Bow which also, should the wielder be struck in melee, provide a +4 increase to any one of your 6 attributes for 5 combat rounds (does not stack once activated)
RANK 9:
For completeing a level:
King's Tear + 900-2700 gold
or
Item: Darts of Flame +5 or Greater Restoration Scroll or Aegis Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Aegis will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Wand of the Dead... which gives a wizard, sorcerer, cleric a wand which has 50 charges of Animate Dead.
Rank 10:
For completing a level:
Rogue Stone + 1000-3000 gold
or
Item: Resurrection Scroll or Power Word: Kill Scroll
or
Experience points
For completing a level (guaranteed):
Executioner's Eyes will be cast on your character
For completing all 5 levels to complete the rank (guaranteed):
Brilliant Short Sword +5... which gives the wielder a +5 short sword which will ignore an opponent's armour and shield AC bonuses
FOR COMPLETING ALL 10 RANKS:
Bracers of Icelandic Pearl... which will give your wizard or sorcerer a pair of gloves which have an armour bonus of +4 but at the cost of -2 dexterity. They can also cast Lesser Planar Binding: Water Elemental, Cone of Cold, Horrid Wilting once per day each
Your character will be healed
My character gained 6779 experience points between starting and finishing the Battle Squares, but a lower level victory could net you 9317+ per character.
GENERAL INFORMATION:
The big glitch:
The intention of the battle squares was to have a puzzle/game which the player would return to every time they levelled up, to experiment with new spells, weapons, potions etc. This concept never made the final cut and the player cannot return to the Ice Temple after returning to Kuldahar. This has rendered the vast majority of this puzzle/game an impossible irritation to any casual or first-time out player and an equal near impossibility for even the most seasoned Icewind Dale player. It is unlikely anyone will get past rank 3 or 4 without implausible numbers of reloads while in chapters 2 to 4
This area is exceedingly glitched, lots of odd glitches effect different games differently!
The resolution:
1. Ignore the battle squares - just do the first level of the first rank, get the quest key and move on with the game and forget the battle squares exist. Have a go at completing ranks 1-3
2. The lazy cheat - Do the first level of the first rank, get the quest key and then install the Ease Of Use mod to provide you with the guaranteed items and guaranteed experience and move on with the game and forget the battle squares exist. HOWEVER, you will not get any of the random items/experience.
3. The crazy cheat - Use modding tools to import a character with amazing items (crazy because why not just mod in the items you would win)
4. The non-cheat cheat - make a save of your game at the Battle Squares. To have a go later just open up that save and import your character/s (keep an eye on your inventory for things which do not export or import). When you are done, export them back to your current location.
5. The tedious cheat - Save before each battle and reload every monster until you are lucky enough to get an easy one. This could take a long time.
Handy tips:
1. There will be little point trying ranged attacks trapped in that small room unless you have the Boots of Speed. You will have little chance against a Remorhaz without ranged attack. Large creatures all get stuck in the north door in my game
2. The Holy Avenger sword in the hands of a Paladin is the ideal scenario for melee combat, though it is also best to take a hammer of some kind and any Disruption weapons you have
3. A Druid can be quite effective. The unique Static Charge spell combined with some healthy buffing and the Shapechange for health regeneration and effective melee
4. Buffing spells are very useful
OVER TO YOU
My list is not exhaustive. If you fancy looking for some then feel free to add to the list
With 250 fights over 50 levels over 10 ranks, the battle squares are a great little 10 hour game-within-a-game
Battle Squares - rewards hints and tips
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LastDanceSaloon
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The battle squares aren't that difficult.
In my first game I had my druid win all 10 ranks without reloading between battles, static charge is very effective there, you can even beat them in chapter 2 if you use save/reload cheese (this way it works even at HoF mode for any solo class) but since I didn't want to do this my party returned in chapter 4.
In my first game I had my druid win all 10 ranks without reloading between battles, static charge is very effective there, you can even beat them in chapter 2 if you use save/reload cheese (this way it works even at HoF mode for any solo class) but since I didn't want to do this my party returned in chapter 4.
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LastDanceSaloon
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That sounds like an excellent tactic kmonster, I shall have to try with a Druid on Static Charge in one of my next explorations of the squares.
Just one question though, Static Charge is a very slow spell, with only one charge per turn (one turn being 60 seconds, the length of time permitted to defeat each monster), a single burst can produce just 16-128 (average of 60) hit points of damage and so with such monsters as the Fire Elementals, Elder Earth Elementals and Elder Air Elementals who all have approximately 350 hit points each, how do you manage to get enough bursts off in 60 seconds to defeat them?
Even three bursts from a Druid who has a high enough level to possess 3 fifth level spell slots would not be able to guarantee a victory. You would also need to do an awful lot of sleeping unless you had a full party of 6 Druids! Also, many of the monsters cast spells, you were very lucky that your Druid was not stunned, panicked, scared, etc.
Saving and reloading is also a great tactic to try and effect the random monster delivery. You can save between each level and even between fights while you are stuck in a level. This method would require an awful lot of patience however and watching an awful lot of game reload screens, so would entirely depend on the players ability to cope with utter tedium.
Just one question though, Static Charge is a very slow spell, with only one charge per turn (one turn being 60 seconds, the length of time permitted to defeat each monster), a single burst can produce just 16-128 (average of 60) hit points of damage and so with such monsters as the Fire Elementals, Elder Earth Elementals and Elder Air Elementals who all have approximately 350 hit points each, how do you manage to get enough bursts off in 60 seconds to defeat them?
Even three bursts from a Druid who has a high enough level to possess 3 fifth level spell slots would not be able to guarantee a victory. You would also need to do an awful lot of sleeping unless you had a full party of 6 Druids! Also, many of the monsters cast spells, you were very lucky that your Druid was not stunned, panicked, scared, etc.
Saving and reloading is also a great tactic to try and effect the random monster delivery. You can save between each level and even between fights while you are stuck in a level. This method would require an awful lot of patience however and watching an awful lot of game reload screens, so would entirely depend on the players ability to cope with utter tedium.
A level 15 druid with 20 wis can cast 5 static charges in a row before combat and therefore get off 5 charges during each duel.
And the druid doesn't have to stay around doing nothing during the battle, she can also do more physical damage than needed to defeat most enemies, with rapid shot using a sling or shapechanged to polar or dire bear she can attack 5 times per round hasted, the damage even increased further with spells like emotion:hope and champions strength cast by the other party members.
Don't forget that you don't have to win all battles, only 3 of them to win a level.
My druid was about level 13 when she finished the battle squares.
And the druid doesn't have to stay around doing nothing during the battle, she can also do more physical damage than needed to defeat most enemies, with rapid shot using a sling or shapechanged to polar or dire bear she can attack 5 times per round hasted, the damage even increased further with spells like emotion:hope and champions strength cast by the other party members.
Don't forget that you don't have to win all battles, only 3 of them to win a level.
My druid was about level 13 when she finished the battle squares.
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LastDanceSaloon
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Ah, some interesting disparities here.
At the beginning of chapter 5 my Cleric had 24 Wisdom but was only on level 14 with a good 11,000+ exp points to go before level 15 (and this is after any exp points gained from getting on the airship with Fiddlebender). She had 4 level 5 spells, the same as a Druid would have.
Spamming for exp is not an easy task in Icewind Dale 2 and a lot of my fights garnered zero exp so I'm intrigued as to how you got to level 15 before Chapter 5. I guess you could have used the 10,000 exp tome bonus on your Druid. Or maybe I was just dealt miserly exp in my game? Could I really have messed up over 11,000 quest exp points? Maybe you had less than 5 party members?
So, the build required for an effective Druid Battle Square victory would be:
Level 15
20+ Wisdom attribute
5 Static Charges memorised
Lots of buffing from other party members, particularly haste, so must have an arcane spellcaster in the party
I'm happy to add this to the guide without trying it out for myself, it does sound quite feasible, however, one last point that you have now raised:
You suggest you only have to win 3 battles to win a level. This is correct, but it's not how to complete the entire Battle Square game
In order to win complete Battle Square Mastery and collect all the Guaranteed bonus gifts and experience points you have to complete every level of every rank, not just the first level of every rank. Completing just a 3 square victory on each rank will net you very little
to complete a rank you have to win 3 squares for the first level, 4 squares for the second level, 5 squares for the third level, 6 squares for the fourth level and, finally, 7 Squares for the fifth level. The last square you take on a level must complete an unbroken line of 3 squares either horizontally, vertically or diagonally. Only once all the levels have been completed separately do you win the rank and claim the reward. (the game does memorise your victories if you sleep, exit the temple etc, but I'm not sure whether it resets upon leaving the chapter etc)
You do have to fight all 250 battles to win the game
I can definitely imagine your Druid beating just 3 squares (level 1) of each rank, but 7 squares is when it really gets tough as buff spells wear out, ammo runs out and healing options dry up. Not to mention the greater chance of facing more tough opponents per lock-in.
So, before I add this great tip to the list, are you sure you actually beat the game or did you just do level 1 of each rank?
At the beginning of chapter 5 my Cleric had 24 Wisdom but was only on level 14 with a good 11,000+ exp points to go before level 15 (and this is after any exp points gained from getting on the airship with Fiddlebender). She had 4 level 5 spells, the same as a Druid would have.
Spamming for exp is not an easy task in Icewind Dale 2 and a lot of my fights garnered zero exp so I'm intrigued as to how you got to level 15 before Chapter 5. I guess you could have used the 10,000 exp tome bonus on your Druid. Or maybe I was just dealt miserly exp in my game? Could I really have messed up over 11,000 quest exp points? Maybe you had less than 5 party members?
So, the build required for an effective Druid Battle Square victory would be:
Level 15
20+ Wisdom attribute
5 Static Charges memorised
Lots of buffing from other party members, particularly haste, so must have an arcane spellcaster in the party
I'm happy to add this to the guide without trying it out for myself, it does sound quite feasible, however, one last point that you have now raised:
You suggest you only have to win 3 battles to win a level. This is correct, but it's not how to complete the entire Battle Square game
In order to win complete Battle Square Mastery and collect all the Guaranteed bonus gifts and experience points you have to complete every level of every rank, not just the first level of every rank. Completing just a 3 square victory on each rank will net you very little
to complete a rank you have to win 3 squares for the first level, 4 squares for the second level, 5 squares for the third level, 6 squares for the fourth level and, finally, 7 Squares for the fifth level. The last square you take on a level must complete an unbroken line of 3 squares either horizontally, vertically or diagonally. Only once all the levels have been completed separately do you win the rank and claim the reward. (the game does memorise your victories if you sleep, exit the temple etc, but I'm not sure whether it resets upon leaving the chapter etc)
You do have to fight all 250 battles to win the game
I can definitely imagine your Druid beating just 3 squares (level 1) of each rank, but 7 squares is when it really gets tough as buff spells wear out, ammo runs out and healing options dry up. Not to mention the greater chance of facing more tough opponents per lock-in.
So, before I add this great tip to the list, are you sure you actually beat the game or did you just do level 1 of each rank?
I already wrote in my previous post that my druid was only about level 13 when finishing the battle squares so you don't even need a far more powerful level 15 character.
She beat all levels of all ranks, usually she started with the highest level so she could switch to lower levels if more than 2 battles were lost. Even at the highest level you can afford to loose twice without having to restart.
Not all buffs last until the end of 7 battles (static charge and champion's strength do) but even at the highest rank there are quite some monsters which are quite easy to defeat.
An unbuffed, unequipped level 13 druid shapeshifted to dire bear has 3 attacks per round for 12-22 damage each, with champion's strength that's more than 25 attacks for more than 20 damage average per battle, add up to 52d8 electricity damage from static charges and 20 percent extra for the scion of storms feat, add equipment bonuses and other buffs, you'll almost sweep through the first battles with haste and luck and ...
She beat all levels of all ranks, usually she started with the highest level so she could switch to lower levels if more than 2 battles were lost. Even at the highest level you can afford to loose twice without having to restart.
Not all buffs last until the end of 7 battles (static charge and champion's strength do) but even at the highest rank there are quite some monsters which are quite easy to defeat.
An unbuffed, unequipped level 13 druid shapeshifted to dire bear has 3 attacks per round for 12-22 damage each, with champion's strength that's more than 25 attacks for more than 20 damage average per battle, add up to 52d8 electricity damage from static charges and 20 percent extra for the scion of storms feat, add equipment bonuses and other buffs, you'll almost sweep through the first battles with haste and luck and ...
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LastDanceSaloon
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Ah, that's awesome!
I have updated the guide to include this excellent option for people carrying a Druid in their party
Good ol' Gamebanshee has me at my word limit for the Guide now, so as each new suggestion arrives, either from myself or others, I shall have to keep shrinking the original, but, hopefully, still manage to keep it legible!
I have updated the guide to include this excellent option for people carrying a Druid in their party
Good ol' Gamebanshee has me at my word limit for the Guide now, so as each new suggestion arrives, either from myself or others, I shall have to keep shrinking the original, but, hopefully, still manage to keep it legible!
The XP you can receive for beating a level is considered combat XP, as if defeating a monster 5 CR higher than the current rank.
Like all combat XP it scales with party level.
Ranged hit and run tactics work quite well most of the time at the battle squares even without boots of speed, the dash feat is sufficient.
Like all combat XP it scales with party level.
Ranged hit and run tactics work quite well most of the time at the battle squares even without boots of speed, the dash feat is sufficient.
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LastDanceSaloon
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In Icewind Dale 2 the Boots of Speed do not describe how much speed is added to the character but in Icewind Dale 1 it states they add 100% speed, so I'm assuming, as the animation appears the same, that this is the case in the sequel. The Dash feat only adds 15% to speed and would, I'm guessing, only be a great help to characters with lighter or zero armour which, by definition, will be those that will not perform too well in melee.
Against the Elementals for example, even with the Boots of Speed, a +4 Bow and +5 arrows my Paladin still couldn't hit and run within the 60 seconds and had to finish them off in melee, still losing over 100+ hit points from the Badly Wounded state of the Elemental.
The Remorhaz was still always a close run thing, maybe just after 20 seconds remaining had been called, so I'm not sure just 15% extra speed would have been enough even at the lower ranks.
What makes the Paladin build an easy recommendation is the combination of naturally high saving throws, a natural immunity to fear, easy switching between melee and ranged attack, lay on hands for immediate massive hit point renewal mid battle, good self cast buffing spells and the benefit of the Holy Avenger Sword which gives 15 spell resistance. As I read on another thread on another site, it just screams out as the logical choice for the nature of the monsters in the battle squares.
The Druid works because of the very unique Static Charge spell combined with the hit point and melee attack benefit of the shapechange. Although the Druid has little fear and spell resistance it is likely that the Static Charges will dispatch the monsters that generate these kind of attacks (such as the various demons and Feyers) before they can take full advantage.
In terms of buffing, an expert player could do the Squares at the correct time of arrival at the Ice Temple with a 'regular' character (A specialised Barbarian/Fighter, possibly a Duragar is hardly that 'regular' though, lol). The following Youtube clip is certainly evidence of that:
Let's Play Icewind Dale 2 - (99) Battle Squares rank 7 part 2 - YouTube
But he is playing with a heck of a lot of foreknowledge and has even prepared his game to create a character who is primed to take advantage of the Potion of Transference at this point in the game. All his characters are min-maxed and are specialists of of some kind, 1 melee, 2 Clerics and 3 Arcane spellcasters, so there's plenty of quick buffing options. But, as you can see from this clip, even he is left with but 1 hit point at one stage and has to still rely on lucky spawns and lucky timing with the Club of Disruption.
In effect, his character has to rely too heavily on support from other team characters to be considered good general advice as giving too specific advice to complete the Squares should not be an influence on a casual player wanting the freedom of choosing their own RPG character choices.
Effectively, for the purposes of the guide, I'm interested in character builds which can pretty much do the job on their own, regardless of team support as anyone looking for the guide on-line will likely already be at the Squares with their chosen characters and will likely not necessarily have min-maxed or ideal characters. My only buffing options at this point, for example would have been 1 Cleric and 1 low level Mage/Rogue and the Ranger and Paladin with very low level buff options.
I think the advice of buffing to the max is likely something people would have already tried prior to going on-line for information.
What I'll do in my next attempt is import my higher level Mage/Rogue and see what impact both Haste and Improved Invisibility have combined with a Cleric's level 1 spell Remove Fear and see whether this is the key combo.
I can't help feeling that a Monk build might do quite well, particularly after getting Diamond Soul at level 13.
Against the Elementals for example, even with the Boots of Speed, a +4 Bow and +5 arrows my Paladin still couldn't hit and run within the 60 seconds and had to finish them off in melee, still losing over 100+ hit points from the Badly Wounded state of the Elemental.
The Remorhaz was still always a close run thing, maybe just after 20 seconds remaining had been called, so I'm not sure just 15% extra speed would have been enough even at the lower ranks.
What makes the Paladin build an easy recommendation is the combination of naturally high saving throws, a natural immunity to fear, easy switching between melee and ranged attack, lay on hands for immediate massive hit point renewal mid battle, good self cast buffing spells and the benefit of the Holy Avenger Sword which gives 15 spell resistance. As I read on another thread on another site, it just screams out as the logical choice for the nature of the monsters in the battle squares.
The Druid works because of the very unique Static Charge spell combined with the hit point and melee attack benefit of the shapechange. Although the Druid has little fear and spell resistance it is likely that the Static Charges will dispatch the monsters that generate these kind of attacks (such as the various demons and Feyers) before they can take full advantage.
In terms of buffing, an expert player could do the Squares at the correct time of arrival at the Ice Temple with a 'regular' character (A specialised Barbarian/Fighter, possibly a Duragar is hardly that 'regular' though, lol). The following Youtube clip is certainly evidence of that:
Let's Play Icewind Dale 2 - (99) Battle Squares rank 7 part 2 - YouTube
But he is playing with a heck of a lot of foreknowledge and has even prepared his game to create a character who is primed to take advantage of the Potion of Transference at this point in the game. All his characters are min-maxed and are specialists of of some kind, 1 melee, 2 Clerics and 3 Arcane spellcasters, so there's plenty of quick buffing options. But, as you can see from this clip, even he is left with but 1 hit point at one stage and has to still rely on lucky spawns and lucky timing with the Club of Disruption.
In effect, his character has to rely too heavily on support from other team characters to be considered good general advice as giving too specific advice to complete the Squares should not be an influence on a casual player wanting the freedom of choosing their own RPG character choices.
Effectively, for the purposes of the guide, I'm interested in character builds which can pretty much do the job on their own, regardless of team support as anyone looking for the guide on-line will likely already be at the Squares with their chosen characters and will likely not necessarily have min-maxed or ideal characters. My only buffing options at this point, for example would have been 1 Cleric and 1 low level Mage/Rogue and the Ranger and Paladin with very low level buff options.
I think the advice of buffing to the max is likely something people would have already tried prior to going on-line for information.
What I'll do in my next attempt is import my higher level Mage/Rogue and see what impact both Haste and Improved Invisibility have combined with a Cleric's level 1 spell Remove Fear and see whether this is the key combo.
I can't help feeling that a Monk build might do quite well, particularly after getting Diamond Soul at level 13.
Bows are ineffective in ranged combat, they don't grant a strength bonus. Your imported level 17 paladin with the holy avenger should have at least 23 natural strength at this point in the game, that's up to 28 with bull's strength and up to 31 with champion's strength. With the 2-handed throwing axe from Kuldahar that's +15 strength damage bonus on top of the other enchantments, +4 bow with +5 arrows is pathetic compared to this.LastDanceSaloon wrote:Against the Elementals for example, even with the Boots of Speed, a +4 Bow and +5 arrows my Paladin still couldn't hit and run within the 60 seconds and had to finish them off in melee, still losing over 100+ hit points from the Badly Wounded state of the Elemental.
Which stats does your paladin you tried the battle squares with have ?
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LastDanceSaloon
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The throwing axe you can win at the battle squares doesn't grant a strength bonus IIRC, you'll have to use another one. Slings grant a strength bonus too.
Monks won't work well at the battle squares since they've great defense but pathetic offense.
You still didn't answer what stats your paladin has.
Monks won't work well at the battle squares since they've great defense but pathetic offense.
You still didn't answer what stats your paladin has.
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LastDanceSaloon
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Right, I've made lots more huge discoveries, so be prepared for a long post! (I'll amend the guide tomorrow at some point, but this is just a forum post exchanging ideas with kmonster and noting down more descriptive bits and pieces of what I've found than will make it into the guide).
So, firstly, the pressing issue of my paladin!
The stats of my paladin are relatively moot as his only requirement was an unlimited supply of Spirit Potions and an unlimited supply of +5 Arrows. The squares are possible this way. However, I see where you're coming from, trying to find a way to slightly improve each stat so that he would need slightly less potions and arrows. This is an admirable goal (though please try to keep any buffs Paladin specific as will be explained later, or, at least buffs that don't require Mages) and his stats were:
Melee: Str24, Dex15, Con10, Int3, Wis21, Cha20, AC30, att 30/25/20/15, dam 13-20, saves 18,18,20, res acid10, cold5, ele5, sp17, gen5/+1, Longsword prof2, Fiendslayer feat
Ranged: Str24, Dex10, Con10, Int3, Wis21, Cha20, att 28/23/18/13, dam 9-14, saves 18,16,20, res acid10, cold5, ele5, sp2, gen0, Bows prof1, Fiendslayer feat
The throwing axes and hammers of all types turned out to be a huge fail. Part glitch and part just mechanics. (More on the glitch later). The mechanics problem with them was that you have to be standing reasonably close to your target to be able to use them and, once you do get one shot off, the enemy is upon you, sometimes getting a sneaky hit if you've cornered yourself waiting for that axe to fly. With arrows and the boots of speed it's extremely simple to run the length of the room and get anything between 2 and four shots off. maybe even 6 if you're lucky, maybe zero if your very unlucky. So, even though the arrows did less damage (theoretically), they made up for it in spades in safety and quantity.
From watching the Youtube video I decided to experiment with buffs. I was interested to know why some of the monsters were attacking him and some not, and why he felt some monsters were better then others.
The end result turned out to be the buff 'Improved Invisibility'.
The mage I imported to test this out was level 11 Mage and level 6 Rouge, so, at level 11, his Improved Invisibility would last the same amount of time as a level 11 Mage who had reached the Squares in normal time.
For this experiment I used my Paladin as he was at this point in the game, not the imported superior one.
I then applied every buff which looked like it might be useful from my Cleric and Mage:
Bull's Strength - Raising his Strength from 20 to 25
Champion's Strength - Raising his Strength from 25 to 27
Spell Resistance - Raising his Spell Resistance to from 2 to 23
Emotion: Hope - Raising his saves to 18,17,18, Attack to 25 (Longsword +2) and damage to 12-19 (Longsword +2)
Aid - Raising his saves to 19,18,19, Attack to 26 and Damage to 13-20, +8 hit points to get to 108 hit points
Electric Resistance - Raising electric resistance from 5 to 11
I then applied - Improved Invisibility - ...
And started Rank 1
Level 5, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Level 4, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore out
Level 3, I lost 19 hit points to a Yeti
Emotion: Hope then wore out
Level 2, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Level 1, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Maybe the Yeti just got a lucky critical hit, I thought. I slept and rebooted...
And I applied the same buffs to Rank 2
Level 5, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore out
Level 4, 54 hit points lost to 4 different monsters
Emotion: Hope then wore out
Level 3, 35 hit points lost to various monsters
Level 2, all monster died, no loss to my hit points
Level 1, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
It was then that I noticed a pattern emerging...
So, for Rank 3, I just buffed with Champion's Strength and Improved Invisibility
Level 4 and Level 5, all monsters dead, no loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore off, so I slept and reapplied it
Level 2 and 3, all monster dead without loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore off and I had a go at level 1 'naked'
Level 1, 104 hit points lost to a Cyclops, 53 hit points lost to a Zombie Lord and death by Umber Hulk.
I had to re-do levels 1 to 3.
For rank 4 only used the buff Improved Invisibility (reapplying between levels):
At level 5 it wore off during my seventh monster and I died. On my second attempt it wore off on my seventh monster and I survived
At level 4 the exact same thing happened on the sixth monster
At level 3 I timed out against 2 Frost Giants, but won the level
At level 2 and level 1 it was a piece of cake
So, onto rank 5, same method:
Level 5, Improved Invisibility wore off during the 5th or 6th monster (2 attempts) and I could not complete the level
So, back to the drawing board. Time to try and 'speed up' the monster's deaths in order to make Improved invisibility last for more monsters:
I now apply Champion's Strength, Hope, Aid, Haste before applying Improved Invisibility
Level 5, level 4, level 3, level 2, level 1, all monsters die in time before Improved Invisibility wears off
Onto Rank 6 with the new buff selection designed to support Improved Invisibility:
Level 5, Wears out on the 6th monster, but it's an easy one, 7th monster nearly kills me, but I make it
Level 4, Again, wears out on the 6th monster and I have to concede a square, but the next monster is an easy Shadow
Level 3, level 2, level 1, all easy
Rank 7 is when it starts to get really interesting.
Level 5, wears out on the 7th but I make it
Level 4, wears out on the 6th, but I make it
Level 3, easy
Level 2, Complete fail - first appearance of an Elder Elemental. First one timed out on me, the second made me run for the concede lever. Next reload the elemental decides to disrupt on the 12th hit and the rest is easy
Level 1, easy
And now the new pattern emerges, everything's fine until the Elder Elementals show up
It then comes down to a matter of attacks per turn. 2 attacks per turn is just not enough to finish off the Elementals in time and one is relying on disruptions from the Club of Disruption
So Rank 8:
Level 5, turns into level 4 after a timed out elemental blocks a square
Level 5, turns into level 3 after a timed out elemental blocks a square
Level 5, fails after an elemental fails to die after 18 hits
Level 5, easy at last, no Elementals
Level 2 and level 1 both easy
So here we wind up at the same point as the guy in the video, hoping for good monster spawns (low hit points) and hoping for lucky and timely disruptions
To conclude: The buffs piled on by the guy in the video are unnecessary.
For the first 4 ranks all that is required is Improved Invisibility (though level 5 of rank 4 may require the following...)
For ranks 5 to 10 all that is required is:
Champion's Strength (level 5 Cleric) or Bull's Strength (level 2 Cleric)
Aid (level 2 Cleric)
Emotion: Hope (level 4 Mage)
Haste (level 3 Mage)
Improved Invisibility (level 4 Mage)
Haste, only lasts 1.5 monsters, but it speeds things up just enough to make a difference in keeping Improved Invisibility going up until the 6th or 7th monster on the higher levels
Emotion: Hope, wore out quicker on my Paladin than it did on the rest of the team, which is an interesting glitch
There are a vast number of buffs which improve this and that, but they only last a few rounds and are generally pointless, particularly ones which relate to AC, resistance and saves and wear out before Improved Invisibility
Stoneskin is useful for a bit of security when facing the last monster on level 4 and 5, but, again, not at all necessary
Now for some glitches:
Improved Invisibility is the key to the Battle Squares because not one of the monsters recognises it. They just stand there as if you were invisible. It's like chopping down trees. Unless this glitch is unique to my version
Some of the Demons would take 12 or 13 hits with the Club of Disruption +3 at 14 points a hit, but would die after just 5 hits from my Longsword +2 at 20 points per hit
I got none of the teleporting glitches shown in the video, it must have been one of the buffs he used which causes it
The Club of Disruption uses Crushing damage and usually dealt 14 hit points of damage (bony undead aside), yet my +2 Hammer with additional electrical bursts only dealt low single figure damage against the same foes (bony undead aside). This was also the case for throwing hammers and axes (hence why arrows were better, averaging 10 points of damage)
The Remorhaz gets stuck in the doorway, just exit the north door and missile attack if they prove problematic
Emotion: Hope is cast on the entire party, and yet it would wear off of my character during a fight but when I was returned to my team, they all still had it in effect
Against some of the monsters my character would stop fighting when Haste wore off. I had to walk him away and reassign him to attack to reactivate him
And finally:
My mage could cast level 4 spells at this point in the game but did not have Improved Invisibility in his list of spells, if I remember correctly the first person selling this spell is the mage lady in the Fell Wood camp? Or can it be 'found' or bought earlier?
So, firstly, the pressing issue of my paladin!
The stats of my paladin are relatively moot as his only requirement was an unlimited supply of Spirit Potions and an unlimited supply of +5 Arrows. The squares are possible this way. However, I see where you're coming from, trying to find a way to slightly improve each stat so that he would need slightly less potions and arrows. This is an admirable goal (though please try to keep any buffs Paladin specific as will be explained later, or, at least buffs that don't require Mages) and his stats were:
Melee: Str24, Dex15, Con10, Int3, Wis21, Cha20, AC30, att 30/25/20/15, dam 13-20, saves 18,18,20, res acid10, cold5, ele5, sp17, gen5/+1, Longsword prof2, Fiendslayer feat
Ranged: Str24, Dex10, Con10, Int3, Wis21, Cha20, att 28/23/18/13, dam 9-14, saves 18,16,20, res acid10, cold5, ele5, sp2, gen0, Bows prof1, Fiendslayer feat
The throwing axes and hammers of all types turned out to be a huge fail. Part glitch and part just mechanics. (More on the glitch later). The mechanics problem with them was that you have to be standing reasonably close to your target to be able to use them and, once you do get one shot off, the enemy is upon you, sometimes getting a sneaky hit if you've cornered yourself waiting for that axe to fly. With arrows and the boots of speed it's extremely simple to run the length of the room and get anything between 2 and four shots off. maybe even 6 if you're lucky, maybe zero if your very unlucky. So, even though the arrows did less damage (theoretically), they made up for it in spades in safety and quantity.
From watching the Youtube video I decided to experiment with buffs. I was interested to know why some of the monsters were attacking him and some not, and why he felt some monsters were better then others.
The end result turned out to be the buff 'Improved Invisibility'.
The mage I imported to test this out was level 11 Mage and level 6 Rouge, so, at level 11, his Improved Invisibility would last the same amount of time as a level 11 Mage who had reached the Squares in normal time.
For this experiment I used my Paladin as he was at this point in the game, not the imported superior one.
I then applied every buff which looked like it might be useful from my Cleric and Mage:
Bull's Strength - Raising his Strength from 20 to 25
Champion's Strength - Raising his Strength from 25 to 27
Spell Resistance - Raising his Spell Resistance to from 2 to 23
Emotion: Hope - Raising his saves to 18,17,18, Attack to 25 (Longsword +2) and damage to 12-19 (Longsword +2)
Aid - Raising his saves to 19,18,19, Attack to 26 and Damage to 13-20, +8 hit points to get to 108 hit points
Electric Resistance - Raising electric resistance from 5 to 11
I then applied - Improved Invisibility - ...
And started Rank 1
Level 5, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Level 4, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore out
Level 3, I lost 19 hit points to a Yeti
Emotion: Hope then wore out
Level 2, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Level 1, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Maybe the Yeti just got a lucky critical hit, I thought. I slept and rebooted...
And I applied the same buffs to Rank 2
Level 5, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore out
Level 4, 54 hit points lost to 4 different monsters
Emotion: Hope then wore out
Level 3, 35 hit points lost to various monsters
Level 2, all monster died, no loss to my hit points
Level 1, all monsters died, no loss to my hit points
It was then that I noticed a pattern emerging...
So, for Rank 3, I just buffed with Champion's Strength and Improved Invisibility
Level 4 and Level 5, all monsters dead, no loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore off, so I slept and reapplied it
Level 2 and 3, all monster dead without loss to my hit points
Improved Invisibility then wore off and I had a go at level 1 'naked'
Level 1, 104 hit points lost to a Cyclops, 53 hit points lost to a Zombie Lord and death by Umber Hulk.
I had to re-do levels 1 to 3.
For rank 4 only used the buff Improved Invisibility (reapplying between levels):
At level 5 it wore off during my seventh monster and I died. On my second attempt it wore off on my seventh monster and I survived
At level 4 the exact same thing happened on the sixth monster
At level 3 I timed out against 2 Frost Giants, but won the level
At level 2 and level 1 it was a piece of cake
So, onto rank 5, same method:
Level 5, Improved Invisibility wore off during the 5th or 6th monster (2 attempts) and I could not complete the level
So, back to the drawing board. Time to try and 'speed up' the monster's deaths in order to make Improved invisibility last for more monsters:
I now apply Champion's Strength, Hope, Aid, Haste before applying Improved Invisibility
Level 5, level 4, level 3, level 2, level 1, all monsters die in time before Improved Invisibility wears off
Onto Rank 6 with the new buff selection designed to support Improved Invisibility:
Level 5, Wears out on the 6th monster, but it's an easy one, 7th monster nearly kills me, but I make it
Level 4, Again, wears out on the 6th monster and I have to concede a square, but the next monster is an easy Shadow
Level 3, level 2, level 1, all easy
Rank 7 is when it starts to get really interesting.
Level 5, wears out on the 7th but I make it
Level 4, wears out on the 6th, but I make it
Level 3, easy
Level 2, Complete fail - first appearance of an Elder Elemental. First one timed out on me, the second made me run for the concede lever. Next reload the elemental decides to disrupt on the 12th hit and the rest is easy
Level 1, easy
And now the new pattern emerges, everything's fine until the Elder Elementals show up
It then comes down to a matter of attacks per turn. 2 attacks per turn is just not enough to finish off the Elementals in time and one is relying on disruptions from the Club of Disruption
So Rank 8:
Level 5, turns into level 4 after a timed out elemental blocks a square
Level 5, turns into level 3 after a timed out elemental blocks a square
Level 5, fails after an elemental fails to die after 18 hits
Level 5, easy at last, no Elementals
Level 2 and level 1 both easy
So here we wind up at the same point as the guy in the video, hoping for good monster spawns (low hit points) and hoping for lucky and timely disruptions
To conclude: The buffs piled on by the guy in the video are unnecessary.
For the first 4 ranks all that is required is Improved Invisibility (though level 5 of rank 4 may require the following...)
For ranks 5 to 10 all that is required is:
Champion's Strength (level 5 Cleric) or Bull's Strength (level 2 Cleric)
Aid (level 2 Cleric)
Emotion: Hope (level 4 Mage)
Haste (level 3 Mage)
Improved Invisibility (level 4 Mage)
Haste, only lasts 1.5 monsters, but it speeds things up just enough to make a difference in keeping Improved Invisibility going up until the 6th or 7th monster on the higher levels
Emotion: Hope, wore out quicker on my Paladin than it did on the rest of the team, which is an interesting glitch
There are a vast number of buffs which improve this and that, but they only last a few rounds and are generally pointless, particularly ones which relate to AC, resistance and saves and wear out before Improved Invisibility
Stoneskin is useful for a bit of security when facing the last monster on level 4 and 5, but, again, not at all necessary
Now for some glitches:
Improved Invisibility is the key to the Battle Squares because not one of the monsters recognises it. They just stand there as if you were invisible. It's like chopping down trees. Unless this glitch is unique to my version
Some of the Demons would take 12 or 13 hits with the Club of Disruption +3 at 14 points a hit, but would die after just 5 hits from my Longsword +2 at 20 points per hit
I got none of the teleporting glitches shown in the video, it must have been one of the buffs he used which causes it
The Club of Disruption uses Crushing damage and usually dealt 14 hit points of damage (bony undead aside), yet my +2 Hammer with additional electrical bursts only dealt low single figure damage against the same foes (bony undead aside). This was also the case for throwing hammers and axes (hence why arrows were better, averaging 10 points of damage)
The Remorhaz gets stuck in the doorway, just exit the north door and missile attack if they prove problematic
Emotion: Hope is cast on the entire party, and yet it would wear off of my character during a fight but when I was returned to my team, they all still had it in effect
Against some of the monsters my character would stop fighting when Haste wore off. I had to walk him away and reassign him to attack to reactivate him
And finally:
My mage could cast level 4 spells at this point in the game but did not have Improved Invisibility in his list of spells, if I remember correctly the first person selling this spell is the mage lady in the Fell Wood camp? Or can it be 'found' or bought earlier?
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LastDanceSaloon
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
- Contact:
Some additional thoughts about the guy that made the Youtube video:
I notice his character's main stats after mass buffing are about the same as my Paladin's without buffing (my Paladin just has 6 more character levels and better equipment). A lot of these wear out after the first couple of monsters though so I suspect he either got lucky with his monsters/disruptions or did lots of reloading of monsters. But anyway, I am a bit curious, at close inspection, about some of his stats. The following caught my eye:
He has 4 attacks at level 10. Is this to do with dual classing or some benefit of barbarians? Is it a Dexterity thing? How is this possible? Edit: don't worry about this one, lol, it's Haste isn't it, I feel dumb :/
His attacks are listed as 29/24/19/18. Why doesn't the last attack drop by 5?
His Armour Class states he has a Deflection Bonus of 5. That is impossible isn't it? Armour Bonuses don't stack. The Defensive Harmony buff gives +4 so his Ring +1 would not stack with this. Edit: This is from the Aegis spell, wears off in 10 rounds.
How on earth did he get a Generic Armour Bonus of 4? Has his +4 Dodge Bonus versus Giants turned into a permanent Generic Bonus? Edit: Ah, this is from playing as a Deep Gnome, the only character which starts with additional free Generic Armour Class but has the worst level-up pace as a counter.
Do his feats Cleave, Maximised Attacks, Power Attack effect any of the above? I don't think they do? Is he using a mod or just benefiting from glitches? Edit: Nah, I was just confused by all the unnecessary multi-buffs and complicated character choice.
Anyway, back to improving my Paladin without the aid of Clerics and Mages...
The level 16 Paladin has just been through again, this time trying to minimise the use of Healing Potions and +5 Arrows, and this was the result:
Rank 1: No hit points lost, no arrows used except the basic regular free returning arrow
Rank 2: 13 hit points lost, no arrows used except the returning arrow
Rank 3: 66 hit points lost, no arrows used except the returning arrow
Rank 4: 99 hit points lost, 20 Stunning Arrows +1 used
Rank 5: 190 hit points lost (had to use Lay on Hands once), 72 Stunning Arrows +1 used
Rank 6: No hit points lost, 37 Impact Arrows +1 used
Rank 7: 229 hit points lost (Lay on Hands once), No arrows used
Rank 8: 194 hit points lost (Lay on Hands once), 20 Impact Arrows +1 used
Rank 9: 1511 hit points lost (Lay on Hands all 5 times + 15 Spirit Potions + 5 Extra Healing Potions), 150 Arrows +5 used
Rank 10: 992 hit points lost (Lay on Hands 3 times + 5 Spirit Potions), 227 Arrows +5 used
No reloads.
So the Paladin is, quite literally, breezing it until Rank 9. And this is where the choice becomes using lots of healing potions or lots of Arrows +5. By cost the Healing Potions would be better, but much less satisfying.
I managed to reduce my arrow use by attacking all the Remorhazes from outside the door and by using the returning electrical throwing axe (the Remorhaz being stuck in the doorway)
My Paladin is awesome against all the different Demons, even the Gelugons aren't very scary for him.
The problem is the big hit point, big damage monsters. The Frost Giants in the early levels, the Elementals and Apocalyptic Boneguards in the last two levels. In all these cases there normally isn't time to finish them with arrows and the resulting melee with 20 seconds to go in order to finish them off tends to result in a 50-100 hit point loss for me.
For the Apocalyptic Boneguards and the Fire Elementals a contributory factor is that I have no Fire Resistance. Minor Elemental Barrier (a Paladin buff) doesn't last very long and it's a pain wasting time casting it during a battle for just 3 saved hit points a hit. There aren't enough Protection Scrolls in the game to cover all the battles. The Ring of Fire Resistance is also just a paltry 3/- and hardly worth it over rings which increase Armour Class or Attack Bonus.
But the biggest problem is the fact that they hit me so easily. Right from the Cyclopses in level 3 all the way to the Elder Elementals in level 10, I just get hit far too easily. It's like an AC of 30 is just an average AC. I can hit them well enough and deliver easily enough damage in melee, but I can find no way to stop them hitting me so much.
So what's the best Fire Resistance items in the game? And how do you get an Armour Class significantly higher than 30 without resorting to Mage/Cleric buffs?
I notice his character's main stats after mass buffing are about the same as my Paladin's without buffing (my Paladin just has 6 more character levels and better equipment). A lot of these wear out after the first couple of monsters though so I suspect he either got lucky with his monsters/disruptions or did lots of reloading of monsters. But anyway, I am a bit curious, at close inspection, about some of his stats. The following caught my eye:
He has 4 attacks at level 10. Is this to do with dual classing or some benefit of barbarians? Is it a Dexterity thing? How is this possible? Edit: don't worry about this one, lol, it's Haste isn't it, I feel dumb :/
His attacks are listed as 29/24/19/18. Why doesn't the last attack drop by 5?
His Armour Class states he has a Deflection Bonus of 5. That is impossible isn't it? Armour Bonuses don't stack. The Defensive Harmony buff gives +4 so his Ring +1 would not stack with this. Edit: This is from the Aegis spell, wears off in 10 rounds.
How on earth did he get a Generic Armour Bonus of 4? Has his +4 Dodge Bonus versus Giants turned into a permanent Generic Bonus? Edit: Ah, this is from playing as a Deep Gnome, the only character which starts with additional free Generic Armour Class but has the worst level-up pace as a counter.
Do his feats Cleave, Maximised Attacks, Power Attack effect any of the above? I don't think they do? Is he using a mod or just benefiting from glitches? Edit: Nah, I was just confused by all the unnecessary multi-buffs and complicated character choice.
Anyway, back to improving my Paladin without the aid of Clerics and Mages...
The level 16 Paladin has just been through again, this time trying to minimise the use of Healing Potions and +5 Arrows, and this was the result:
Rank 1: No hit points lost, no arrows used except the basic regular free returning arrow
Rank 2: 13 hit points lost, no arrows used except the returning arrow
Rank 3: 66 hit points lost, no arrows used except the returning arrow
Rank 4: 99 hit points lost, 20 Stunning Arrows +1 used
Rank 5: 190 hit points lost (had to use Lay on Hands once), 72 Stunning Arrows +1 used
Rank 6: No hit points lost, 37 Impact Arrows +1 used
Rank 7: 229 hit points lost (Lay on Hands once), No arrows used
Rank 8: 194 hit points lost (Lay on Hands once), 20 Impact Arrows +1 used
Rank 9: 1511 hit points lost (Lay on Hands all 5 times + 15 Spirit Potions + 5 Extra Healing Potions), 150 Arrows +5 used
Rank 10: 992 hit points lost (Lay on Hands 3 times + 5 Spirit Potions), 227 Arrows +5 used
No reloads.
So the Paladin is, quite literally, breezing it until Rank 9. And this is where the choice becomes using lots of healing potions or lots of Arrows +5. By cost the Healing Potions would be better, but much less satisfying.
I managed to reduce my arrow use by attacking all the Remorhazes from outside the door and by using the returning electrical throwing axe (the Remorhaz being stuck in the doorway)
My Paladin is awesome against all the different Demons, even the Gelugons aren't very scary for him.
The problem is the big hit point, big damage monsters. The Frost Giants in the early levels, the Elementals and Apocalyptic Boneguards in the last two levels. In all these cases there normally isn't time to finish them with arrows and the resulting melee with 20 seconds to go in order to finish them off tends to result in a 50-100 hit point loss for me.
For the Apocalyptic Boneguards and the Fire Elementals a contributory factor is that I have no Fire Resistance. Minor Elemental Barrier (a Paladin buff) doesn't last very long and it's a pain wasting time casting it during a battle for just 3 saved hit points a hit. There aren't enough Protection Scrolls in the game to cover all the battles. The Ring of Fire Resistance is also just a paltry 3/- and hardly worth it over rings which increase Armour Class or Attack Bonus.
But the biggest problem is the fact that they hit me so easily. Right from the Cyclopses in level 3 all the way to the Elder Elementals in level 10, I just get hit far too easily. It's like an AC of 30 is just an average AC. I can hit them well enough and deliver easily enough damage in melee, but I can find no way to stop them hitting me so much.
So what's the best Fire Resistance items in the game? And how do you get an Armour Class significantly higher than 30 without resorting to Mage/Cleric buffs?
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LastDanceSaloon
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
- Contact:
This will be the final post about my Paladin, though I shall continue to look for more goodies and update the main guide when necessary.
The main problem with forming an accurate guide to tactics/advice is that the area is so glitched it's difficult to know what's a glitch specific to your game and what's general, normal occurrences.
Some more glitches I've found:
Ranged combat is glitched. Using the Boots of Speed I could move between corners and put half the room between me and the monster. But sometimes I'd turn and face the monster and steadfastly refuse to fire any arrows. The character might not even raise his bow until the monster is right on top of him. This is infuriating, particularly when facing a monster you don't want to melee. It worked out that the game would 'let him' fire anything between 12-26 shots per square. With Frost Giants at a regular 220 hip points, and me firing 13 damage average per arrow, it's easy to see that 17 hits is what is required, mostly achievable, but, occasionally... glitched out of possibility.
I feel sure the monster attack is glitched as well. With me using ranged attack to kill anything with big damage, I am, occasionally (due to the range-glitch), am forced to melee something horrible. These stats are the result of just a couple of rounds finishing of the last third of a Frost Giant (my damage in white, the Frost Giant's in red)
33 20 7 19 53 13 6 16 18
So, in the space of two rounds it's wiped 99 hit points off me using a 1d10 weapon with a damage range of 10-25 that has triple criticals which certainly must be more than just a roll of 19/20. Not to mention the fact that it has at least 2 attacks per round, both of which seem to be guaranteed hits. (Please bare in mind I had a damage reduction of 5/+1 on all these hits! so it was actual damage of 119 hit points in 2 rounds). This isn't a Frost Giant, this is an End-of-Level-A$$-kicking-Giant-With-Weapon-of-Death.
And this is not an isolated incident. It seems all too common that, after a period of arrow flinging, the first wave of assault from the monster in melee will be the most devastating it's possible to be, as if the AI is catching up for lost time before resettling to a 'normal' fight scenario. Here's a batch of stats I got for attempting to melee easy enemies at the Badly Wounded/Nearly Dead stage:
Greater Boneguard: 27 8 28
Remorhaz: 18 24 35 15 16
Frost Giant: 24 21 15
Greater Werewolf: 6 14 17 28 16
Remorhaz: 17 38 16 24 36 15 14
In the space of a couple of rounds ALL these critters seem to have plenty enough attack value to guarantee a (devastating) hit on an AC of 30. Likewise, if attacking from melee from the get-go, there ALWAYS seems to be a hit striking my character in the first couple of rounds, even if the monster fails to get a single hit over the next 6 rounds after that.
Another glitch I noticed was the two spells 'Bless' and 'Protection From Evil'. Both are listed as having a duration of '1minute/lvl', so, obviously one will expire at virtually the exact same time, give or take half a round. Protection From Evil expired relatively quickly while Bless would last for aaaages. The difference between the two wearing off was 100s of rounds.
Another glitch is the time warnings from the Ice Golem referee. If you lose sight of the Golem then you miss the time warnings, but, on top of this, once he reappears he will give you the first warning of 'twenty seconds' even if you only have 3 seconds left. At first, the player feels like they are being cheated and the glitch is that the battle is ending too early whereas the actual glitch is that, once the golem is out of sight the time warnings are frozen until he reappears at which point he starts from the first line of his set of instructions regardless of the actual time left.
The random rewards seem to be relatively non-glitched in that certain rewards will always be level-specific, but some rewards do rank-jump, such as the Force Bullets and missiles +5 leading me to wonder how the rewards are calculated and from which pool of rewards each rank draws from, or that some of the rewards are a lil bit glitched and jump around.
The main problem with forming an accurate guide to tactics/advice is that the area is so glitched it's difficult to know what's a glitch specific to your game and what's general, normal occurrences.
Some more glitches I've found:
Ranged combat is glitched. Using the Boots of Speed I could move between corners and put half the room between me and the monster. But sometimes I'd turn and face the monster and steadfastly refuse to fire any arrows. The character might not even raise his bow until the monster is right on top of him. This is infuriating, particularly when facing a monster you don't want to melee. It worked out that the game would 'let him' fire anything between 12-26 shots per square. With Frost Giants at a regular 220 hip points, and me firing 13 damage average per arrow, it's easy to see that 17 hits is what is required, mostly achievable, but, occasionally... glitched out of possibility.
I feel sure the monster attack is glitched as well. With me using ranged attack to kill anything with big damage, I am, occasionally (due to the range-glitch), am forced to melee something horrible. These stats are the result of just a couple of rounds finishing of the last third of a Frost Giant (my damage in white, the Frost Giant's in red)
33 20 7 19 53 13 6 16 18
So, in the space of two rounds it's wiped 99 hit points off me using a 1d10 weapon with a damage range of 10-25 that has triple criticals which certainly must be more than just a roll of 19/20. Not to mention the fact that it has at least 2 attacks per round, both of which seem to be guaranteed hits. (Please bare in mind I had a damage reduction of 5/+1 on all these hits! so it was actual damage of 119 hit points in 2 rounds). This isn't a Frost Giant, this is an End-of-Level-A$$-kicking-Giant-With-Weapon-of-Death.
And this is not an isolated incident. It seems all too common that, after a period of arrow flinging, the first wave of assault from the monster in melee will be the most devastating it's possible to be, as if the AI is catching up for lost time before resettling to a 'normal' fight scenario. Here's a batch of stats I got for attempting to melee easy enemies at the Badly Wounded/Nearly Dead stage:
Greater Boneguard: 27 8 28
Remorhaz: 18 24 35 15 16
Frost Giant: 24 21 15
Greater Werewolf: 6 14 17 28 16
Remorhaz: 17 38 16 24 36 15 14
In the space of a couple of rounds ALL these critters seem to have plenty enough attack value to guarantee a (devastating) hit on an AC of 30. Likewise, if attacking from melee from the get-go, there ALWAYS seems to be a hit striking my character in the first couple of rounds, even if the monster fails to get a single hit over the next 6 rounds after that.
Another glitch I noticed was the two spells 'Bless' and 'Protection From Evil'. Both are listed as having a duration of '1minute/lvl', so, obviously one will expire at virtually the exact same time, give or take half a round. Protection From Evil expired relatively quickly while Bless would last for aaaages. The difference between the two wearing off was 100s of rounds.
Another glitch is the time warnings from the Ice Golem referee. If you lose sight of the Golem then you miss the time warnings, but, on top of this, once he reappears he will give you the first warning of 'twenty seconds' even if you only have 3 seconds left. At first, the player feels like they are being cheated and the glitch is that the battle is ending too early whereas the actual glitch is that, once the golem is out of sight the time warnings are frozen until he reappears at which point he starts from the first line of his set of instructions regardless of the actual time left.
The random rewards seem to be relatively non-glitched in that certain rewards will always be level-specific, but some rewards do rank-jump, such as the Force Bullets and missiles +5 leading me to wonder how the rewards are calculated and from which pool of rewards each rank draws from, or that some of the rewards are a lil bit glitched and jump around.
HoF mode at the battle squares isn't as tough at it looks. The monsters have more HP and deal more damage but so do your characters.
5 attacks per round with a returning throwing axe +5 (sling+5 + magical bullets is even better) can do a lot of damage if the character is fully buffed and has maxed strength.
Ironman might be difficult but with a little save/reload you can beat everything, even my HoF solo barbarian could.
5 attacks per round with a returning throwing axe +5 (sling+5 + magical bullets is even better) can do a lot of damage if the character is fully buffed and has maxed strength.
Ironman might be difficult but with a little save/reload you can beat everything, even my HoF solo barbarian could.
In my game the north door (where you can cheese giants using a long weapon) is closed. I want to open it so I can cheese giants and beetles.
Thanks
Thanks
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Useful, Graci!
Note: (added info for 1st post):
Scrolls -
Rank 6: Lvl 6 Improved Haste
Rank 7: Lvl 7 Elemental Barrier
Spells I used for this (..going "solo"):
Critical spell:
Improved Invisibility
Improved Invisibility's power seems to be relation to character level. The higher in character level your party, the more effective it is - even to the point of maintaining invisibility while pounding on your opponent. At a more moderate character level it provides a first attack and adds a concealment bonus. The concealment bonus is important, but it needs to have mirror image to be more effective. (..and perhaps Blur as well, but I don't know if it stacks or not.)
(Cleric Demarch of Mask has this, and a Sorcerer can as well. If you don't have this yet then do the first level (3 squares) of the 4th Rank and save your game just before the Golem awards you your bonus at the end of that level - that way you can re-load until you get Improved Invisibility. This is also a good way to ensure other rewards like Exp. points.)
"Buff" Spells I used:
Improve Attack Numbers:
Cleric: Bull's Strength, Bless, Aid, (Prayer, Recitation.. these last two if necessary during the match against harder opponents).
Wizard/Sorcerer: Melf's Minute Meteors (..this is for the added attacks - once the "meteors" where off, the attacks are left for whatever weapon you want to use), Emotion Hope, and finally Haste. Note: Melf's doesn't always provide extra attacks after-the-fact. Test it for yourself to see if it works for your character.
I'd usually do it like this:
Bull's Strength (making sure I got +4 or more in Strength bonus), then
Melf's Minute Meteors, then
Bless, then
Aid, then
Emotion Hope, then
Haste, then
Start Battle.
Melee weapons only (after Melf's is exhausted), making sure to have both higher attack weapons of Blunt and Slashing.
Various shielding and spells aren't required accept any but the 9th and 10th Rank "Gate" demon (..something like "galeberu"?). That demon can see through Improved Invisibility, and for those Ranks you should have some added protection "buffs".
It's more important to have this character with the ability to cast Improved Invisibility during combat for those higher/longer 4th and 5th levels for each rank (in case it doesn't last long enough for the whole level).
I had no problem getting all 10 Ranks (and "Mastery") with my SOLO Multi-class Mask-Cleric/Wizard - who despite having low attack numbers (with a 2-level racial penalty as well), was sufficiently "buffed" for any grouping of opponents in the Battle Room.
Note: (added info for 1st post):
Scrolls -
Rank 6: Lvl 6 Improved Haste
Rank 7: Lvl 7 Elemental Barrier
Spells I used for this (..going "solo"):
Critical spell:
Improved Invisibility
Improved Invisibility's power seems to be relation to character level. The higher in character level your party, the more effective it is - even to the point of maintaining invisibility while pounding on your opponent. At a more moderate character level it provides a first attack and adds a concealment bonus. The concealment bonus is important, but it needs to have mirror image to be more effective. (..and perhaps Blur as well, but I don't know if it stacks or not.)
(Cleric Demarch of Mask has this, and a Sorcerer can as well. If you don't have this yet then do the first level (3 squares) of the 4th Rank and save your game just before the Golem awards you your bonus at the end of that level - that way you can re-load until you get Improved Invisibility. This is also a good way to ensure other rewards like Exp. points.)
"Buff" Spells I used:
Improve Attack Numbers:
Cleric: Bull's Strength, Bless, Aid, (Prayer, Recitation.. these last two if necessary during the match against harder opponents).
Wizard/Sorcerer: Melf's Minute Meteors (..this is for the added attacks - once the "meteors" where off, the attacks are left for whatever weapon you want to use), Emotion Hope, and finally Haste. Note: Melf's doesn't always provide extra attacks after-the-fact. Test it for yourself to see if it works for your character.
I'd usually do it like this:
Bull's Strength (making sure I got +4 or more in Strength bonus), then
Melf's Minute Meteors, then
Bless, then
Aid, then
Emotion Hope, then
Haste, then
Start Battle.
Melee weapons only (after Melf's is exhausted), making sure to have both higher attack weapons of Blunt and Slashing.
Various shielding and spells aren't required accept any but the 9th and 10th Rank "Gate" demon (..something like "galeberu"?). That demon can see through Improved Invisibility, and for those Ranks you should have some added protection "buffs".
It's more important to have this character with the ability to cast Improved Invisibility during combat for those higher/longer 4th and 5th levels for each rank (in case it doesn't last long enough for the whole level).
I had no problem getting all 10 Ranks (and "Mastery") with my SOLO Multi-class Mask-Cleric/Wizard - who despite having low attack numbers (with a 2-level racial penalty as well), was sufficiently "buffed" for any grouping of opponents in the Battle Room.
-
LastDanceSaloon
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That's excellent information, very well done.
I can't update the main post any more, that's why the info peters out around the later levels, because I've reached my word count limit and try as I might, I've run out of things to delete in order to add while maintaining legibility.
Excellent info though, so I hope people will be able to read down and see it.
I can't update the main post any more, that's why the info peters out around the later levels, because I've reached my word count limit and try as I might, I've run out of things to delete in order to add while maintaining legibility.
Excellent info though, so I hope people will be able to read down and see it.