A low-maintenance (i.e. "lazy") character for the OC & MotB

[GawainBS]

I played NWN2 with a Battlebard (awesome build), a melee Druid and a Fighter/Mage. All of these have in common that they require extensive pre-buffing.
Now I want to play the game with a simple, low-maintenance character. Given the nature of the OC/MotB, a melee-tankish build would be nice.

Any suggestions? Highest amount of buffing I'd consider is a Paladin. Extra points if I could work in conversation skills.

I use Kaedrin's so that opens plenty of PrC's.

Thanks in advance!

[Scottg]

Pretty much tailor made for this sort of activity..

http://nwn2db.com/build/?113958

A stupid character, but stupid easy.

While some buffs are *available*, none are really needed. (Feral Trance, Empty Body, and Sacred Flames.) At mid-epic levels for MOTB you'll have Blazing Aura (that with a Wisdom necklace) should provide a nearly persistent effect (because of the high Wisdom modifier).


Damage is immense with the build's scaling *unarmed attacks and the build's starting Strength modifier damage (..+ Strength enhancement belts). The one thing it's missing is Supreme Cleave.

*Note that the Unarmed Attack table is only delayed by one level at character level 18 (..because of the level of Cleric).

Defenses are AWESOME. High AC (and Deflect Arrows) + Spell Resistance (at lvl 16) + High Saves + Epic Resilience (lvl 18) + Improved Evasion. Several immunity's (..if a bit latter than a pure Monk), and even damage reduction with the option for 50% concealment. Basically, just make sure you have some robes crafted with immunity to criticals and your pretty much "covered" along with the usual AC-boosting equipment and your Wisdom + Dexterity modifier equipment.


For attacks you can add-in Knockdowns if you want, along with Stunning Attacks (that work) and a Quivering Palm.

[GawainBS]

Thanks. Do you also have an idea for a non-Monk? I love weapons and armour. But a Monk build was in the running anyway. No conversation skills is a turnoff as well.

[Tricky]

Thanks. Do you also have an idea for a non-Monk? I love weapons and armour. But a Monk build was in the running anyway. No conversation skills is a turnoff as well.

A dwarven defender / dualist? Sorry, I can't give you the Scottg style answer.

The best tank is probably my paladin/monk/warlock. Superhigh charisma/everything saves, superhigh AC. Takes a while to get ready though, until you get Word of Changing.

[GawainBS]

What's a dualist? Someone with two classes?

[Scottg]

..No conversation skills is a turnoff as well.

But you wanted something different, no?

Or perhaps just an Intimidator:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?98030

[Endugu]

I'm going to basically quote myself here:

I finished the OC & MotB with a meele ranger build. It was also a jack-of-trades, being able to talk (diplomacy) and disarm traps and locks.
Never ran into any problems with it. Of course, it''s not "perfect" in the eyes of some builder, but hey, I liked playing it.

The build was a human rogue 2 / fighter 1/ cleric 1 / ranger X.

Rogue levels were chosen for the increase in skill points and evasion as well as unlocking the relevant skills via the "able learner" feat. Cleric and fighter were taken for the bonus feats and heavy armor proficiency.

You could switch some classes, according to your preferred play style. For example, I dislike having to switch characters to disarm a trap, so rogue levels (and the able learner feat) are a must for my main character. Maybe take a level of barbarian for the increased movement. Something like that.
A yuan-ti or wood elf would also work well for this kind of character.

What I like about this build is the versatility it offers. Besides being able to fight, serving as a rogue as well as a diplomat, you can switch gear according to the situation you face.
Light armor & dual-wielding weapons makes for a rather offensive melee warrior.
Heavy armor & a two-handed works against some harder-hitting foes.
Heavy armor, shield & a one-handed weapon for situations where a better defense is asked for and so on...

Not to mention that you can use almost all weapons and armor you come across, which is a big bonus to me, especially on a first playthrough.

Anyway, have fun playing!

[GawainBS]

But you wanted something different, no?

Or perhaps just an Intimidator:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?98030

Evil is out of the question. I wanted something that's tankish in melee without having to buff yourself excessively.

I think I'll settle on a Paladin/Exorcist of the Silver Flame.

[Scottg]

Evil is out of the question. I wanted something that's tankish in melee without having to buff yourself excessively.

I think I'll settle on a Paladin/Exorcist of the Silver Flame.

..such a goody-two-shoes.

Note that the "Evil Bastard" build could be altered into a good-aligned build with Anointed Knight instead of Warrior of Darkness. (..I just thought that it better complements the chosen race - which was specifically selected for several of it's bonuses, most notably the paralysis immunity.) The only two potential "buffs" this build has going-on is Frenzy/Whirlwind Frenzy (for the extra attack mostly), and possibly Enlarge Person (racial spell). (..the Invisibility racial spell I don't consider a "buff" - if used, it's not really a "battle" type spell.) Even the "Frenzy's" would be rare with another character capable of casting Haste. I believe the "Darkling Weapon" feat is instant activation, so not really a "buff".



Yeah, with the added spells that Kaedrin put in for the Paladin, it's now a good class all on it's own (and improves with new prestige classes).

The problem is that the Paladin is a buffer. (..and not just a little bit either.)

(..and you'll also get the same conversation results you always have, though perhaps that's desired.)

[Scottg]

The best tank is probably my paladin/monk/warlock.

Paladin/Monk to Warlock..

-Oh the role-playing horror.

[GawainBS]

A Paladin isn't a buffer to the extend a Bard or Fighter/Mage is, especially since he has such a low caster level that equipment serves a better job.

Please point out if I'm overlooking some spells.

[Scottg]

Please point out if I'm overlooking some spells.

Feat: Divine Might,
Feat: Divine Shield,
Spell: Bless Weapon,
Spell: Flamebound Weapon,
Spell: Deafaning Clang,
Spell: Divine Favor,
Spell: Silverbeard,
Spell: Aid,
Spell: Aura of Glory,
Spell: Benediction,
Spell: Flame of Faith,
Spell: Insignia of Blessing,
Spell: Shield of Warding,
Spell: Energized Shield,
etc.. (..and that's just the first 2 spell levels).

Note: most of these spells STACK with equipment.

As a practical matter however you'll only have a few spells to cast per level assuming a low Wisdom modifier.

At level 15 it's usually around 8 spells + your Divine Might & Divine Shield.



As for a Wizard or Sorcerer:

I generally buff much LESS than any Paladin.

Part of this is due to the longer duration buffs - particularly with Extend Spell. Though as levels get even higher I often don't need to use extended spell on all but a few spells.

Mage Armor/Improved Mage Armor, Spiderskin, Protection from Evil, Premonition, etc. - are all long duration buffs. For these spells it's more about buffing per *map* than it is about buffing before a battle.

Even spells like Mirror Image, Ghostly Visage, Shield, etc.. - tend to last for quit awhile at mid and higher levels, enough so that it's rarely cast more than twice per map UNLESS it's been "used up" OR it's been dispelled.

Basically it's down to Ethereal Visage extended as my one true buff. (..and exceedingly rarely an extended Lesser Spell Mantle.) Sometimes I'll add-in Displacement into the build (extended), but it's rare.


Having played the OC with Kaedrins multiple times (and with many Sorcerer builds and several Wizard builds), I know that I spend more time personally buffing Casavir than I do for any Sorcerer or Wizard, but only at levels above 13 or so and only with respect to *personal* buffs for that character.

With respect to "map" buffs for other characters by a Sorcerer or Wizard, a few of those buffs that I might otherwise use on companions (like Mage Armor/Improved Mage Armor), are not needed with enchanted equipment - so I tend to spend increasingly less time buffing *other* characters at the start of each map when you "hit" level 15-16. This is rather "inverted" to a Paladin where the Paladin has more spells to cast that do stack as levels increase for that character (..though most are personal buffs and not companion buffs).

The biggest time-waster for the Paladin is still Divine Might and Divine Shield - which is always immediately before or during a battle. This is when it *feels* like a buff. "Throw-in" the occasional Divine Favor and it slows down a battle sequence so much that Khelgar has killed everything in the room and wonder's if Casavir is having a seizure.

[GawainBS]

My current adversity to buffing isn't so much the amount, as it is the fact that you loose your buffs during transitions, which annoys me to no end. That, and once you hit Epic, they stop scaling with caster level.

[Scottg]

My current adversity to buffing isn't so much the amount, as it is the fact that you loose your buffs during transitions, which annoys me to no end. That, and once you hit Epic, they stop scaling with caster level.

Even Persistent spells will be lost with map transitions when "Traveling".

i.e going to the 1st orc encampment map from Old Owl Well - no spell will remain. However if it's long enough in duration and you cast it on characters ON the orc encampment map THEN transitioning to either orc/troll "cave" map won't remove it. At that point it's just a matter of duration.

The only thing that remains is persistent *feat* effects and enchanted item effects when traveling to different maps.

Most buffs are static, not scaling based on their description. The major exception is duration which continues to scale in level. Mirror Image would be an exception - it both scales in power and duration even into epic levels.


From what I gather from your post - you really don't want to rely on any spells at all. That makes the Paladin a poor choice, because he becomes quite a bit more powerful with those spells (..enough that when fully buffed Casavir is better than Khelgar at level 20 fully "kitted-out" with Kaedrin Fighter feats.)

That still makes the Paladin class an option as a "pick-up" class for Divine Grace and potentially Divine Shield and Divine Might, but you should always consider equipment modifiers (saves) in relation to Divine Grace's total result and utilizing a few levels as Cleric instead of Paladin for Divine Shield and Divine Might.

Divine Grace ex.

+5 save cloak vs. 12 in Charisma + Nymph cloak +8. Same save result. The only real difference is when you add-in the +5 to Divine Might and Divine Shield from the Charisma choice. Even then, there is a cloak at the start of MOTB that provides +5 save AND +5 AC - which nets you everything except the added damage of Divine Might, and does so persistently on the AC even through map traveling. PLUS, without the need to put points into Charisma you can distribute them to other attributes.

[GawainBS]

Effects which scale with lvl: Spider Skin, Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Protection (can't recall the name, 1st lvl divine spell which gives Deflection bonus), Barkskin, Divine Favour.
Relevant: You can use many spells to replace equipment, like the Natural Armour modifiers, Enhancement to Saves spells, etc. Once in MotB, the gear you get gives better bonuses than the spells, making them, and a huge part of the character, obsolete.

But on topic: Yes, I do indeed want to playthrough the game without having to worry about too many spells for once. But I want Diplomacy (and Bluff/Intimidate, if possible) as skills, just for feeling of having an influence. ;-)

My other idea is a Champion of Correllon Larethian. I think Kaedrin has that as Champion of The Wild or something.

A Monk is still on the table, but I like weapons and armour.

[Endugu]

How about a cookiecutter melee build?
Bard 1 / Fighter 14 / Red Dragon Disciple 10 / Frenzied Berserker 5.
No buffing, fights well and uses weapons and armor. With the able learner feat you can also make good use of the bard's diplomatic skills. Pick human for the extra skill points, if you think you won't get enough (though the +2 INT from the Dragon Disciple levels also helps).

[GawainBS]

I might consider that.

[Claudius]

I'm not sure crit immunes, but you could look up the build 'terracotta soldier'. It is optimized for PVP but still should be good.

Level split: F12B1RDD10WM(weapon master)7
http://nwn2db.com/build/?31287

There is also a build called kama no kaze (or something) that has sick AC and attack damage in MotB because it gets 18 attacks (hasted by friend) with all the built in damage of the sick MotB weapons.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Kaze_no_Kama

[Scottg]

Effects which scale with lvl: Spider Skin, Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Protection (can't recall the name, 1st lvl divine spell which gives Deflection bonus), Barkskin, Divine Favour.
Relevant: You can use many spells to replace equipment, like the Natural Armour modifiers, Enhancement to Saves spells, etc. Once in MotB, the gear you get gives better bonuses than the spells, making them, and a huge part of the character, obsolete.

But on topic: Yes, I do indeed want to playthrough the game without having to worry about too many spells for once. But I want Diplomacy (and Bluff/Intimidate, if possible) as skills, just for feeling of having an influence. ;-)

My other idea is a Champion of Correllon Larethian. I think Kaedrin has that as Champion of The Wild or something.

A Monk is still on the table, but I like weapons and armour.

All of those spells reach their max in power/effectiveness based on the spell description; it doesn't have anything to do with epic class levels. Most of course will still increase in duration with epic levels (..though Divine Favor also has it's duration with a max value).

Yes, many buff spells do reach a limit that is often surpassed by enchanted gear - BUT that's often NOT the case for Paladin spells.



OK, so armor/shield + weapon + Diplomacy. (..Champion of the Wild's main bonus is dexterity modifier damage, which is somewhat limited by being an armor-using character with respect to dexterity bonus AC limits when wearing armor.)

I'll play-around with NWN2 builder (..and look at older builds) later today, and should have something by tonight.

[GawainBS]

All of those spells reach their max in power/effectiveness based on the spell description; it doesn't have anything to do with epic class levels. Most of course will still increase in duration with epic levels (..though Divine Favor also has it's duration with a max value).

Yes, many buff spells do reach a limit that is often surpassed by enchanted gear - BUT that's often NOT the case for Paladin spells.



OK, so armor/shield + weapon + Diplomacy. (..Champion of the Wild's main bonus is dexterity modifier damage, which is somewhat limited by being an armor-using character with respect to dexterity bonus AC limits when wearing armor.)

I'll play-around with NWN2 builder (..and look at older builds) later today, and should have something by tonight.

Thanks, Scott. The point of me listing those spells is that they loose their benefit of replacing equipment, since they don't scale into Epic, but equipment does.

I'm really curious what you'll come with next. ;-)