The Internet is the root of all evil

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:24 pm

It is strange how coincidences happen, i happened to pick up Ben Folds Five by Ben Folds Five and there is a track called Philosiphy that applies particularly well to this situation, i reccommend you pick it up.

My new Sig features the begining of the Chorus

BTW their musicis always uplifting os i am in a particularly good mood at the moment

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:28 pm

Originally posted by loner72:
The Gospel of Thomas? It's Gnostic, and Thomas the apostle didn't write it. I've never read the Gospel of Thomas so unfortunately I can't answer this completely...

I heard it and it was a rumor, doesn't mean there was any truth in it

There is this thought that the Egptians/Catholics/Christians altered parts of the Bible to help their own cause, how much truth there is in this is debatable

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:31 pm

Hi Brink

@Sleep: Like I said, there are so many ancient manuscripts that got lost...the New Testament as it is now is really a hodgepodge of manuscripts, pieced together as best scholars can make out from the evidence. This leaves lots of room for rumors

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:41 pm

Originally posted by loner72:
This leaves lots of room for rumors

Conjecture LOL!

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:43 pm

Doesn't conjecture imply the existence of evidence?

Brink · Post by **Brink** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:46 pm

I have to go now

.I'll see you all later

.Have fun

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:46 pm

Originally posted by loner72:
Doesn't conjecture imply the existence of evidence?

ROFLMAO!

Top class

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:52 pm

@Sleep:

Bye Brink, take care

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:54 pm

Originally posted by Brink:
I have to go now .I'll see you all later .Have fun

Seeyah Brink.

@Loner So how did our conversation go over to you?

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:57 pm

@Sleep: It made me late for the heretic-burning

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:00 pm

Originally posted by loner72:
@Sleep: It made me late for the heretic-burning

Damn i missed it to, i still ahve time for the Catholic burning though....

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:04 pm

Originally posted by loner72:
Doesn't conjecture imply the existence of evidence?

Well... no

Hi guys

@Loner I'm sure I've been told by one of my Christian friends that the Bible says the only way to God is through Jesus... does it not say that?

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:20 pm

@Sleep: Trying to flame me are you?

@Georgi: in the Gospel of John there is the passage "No one comes to the Father except through me." That Gospel is rife with such sayings, that one cannot be saved unless one accepts Christ. This is a big problem with that Gospel (among so many problems with that Gospel; it has been seriously misused over the years...) St. Paul is the same way.

What needs to be understood is the context in which these things were written. God did not come down out of the sky and dictate the New Testament. It was written for very specific audiences, by people who were addressing very particular circumstances. The four Gospels are famous for their "contradictions", but those apparent contradictions come from the fact that they were each written for a different community dealing with different issues and struggling with different problems. For example, the strong anti-Semitism that comes across in the Gospel of John, was written just at the time when Christians were being thrown out of the synagogues and persecuted by their own Jewish communities. The author wanted to justify the split with the synagogue, so he emphasized the tensions with the Jews. St. Paul, as another example, wanted to standardize the faith and keep it free of confusing influences, since it was so young at the time. He didn't want people mixing things up. It has to be remembered that all these authors were writing for Christians, not for non-Christians.

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:27 pm

@Loner i would never do that. I might set you alight but i would never flame you

it has been fun and enlightening, goodnight, good luck with the heretics

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:33 pm

Bye Sleep

Have a good one

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:37 pm

Goodnight Sleep

@Loner 'kay, so how does one tell exactly which parts of the Bible are supposed to be taken literally?

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:44 pm

@Georgi: It's not so much about being taken literally, as it is about understanding the circumstances under which something was written. The passsages I referred to are literal; the authors meant every word they said literally. However we need to understand that there were specific reasons for those statements, and those reasons don't exist anymore. Going back to the treatment of Jews in the Gospel of John, no one would agree on that anymore. I wouldn't shun my Jewish friends because of it. But if I know the background it's easier to understand and accept the book for what it is, the product of a community in particular circumstances. I can still believe in the theological truths it conveys.

Does that make sense?...

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:49 pm

Night, @Sleep.

@Loner, I like your culturally sensitive approach to your religion. So many people take whatever is in their particular bible (since there are significant differences between versions) as not merely the last word on everything, but the exact last word that doesn't allow for cultural context. To hear them speak, "mulitply across the face of the earth" means having twelve kids and doubling the earth's population ASAP.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:52 pm

Originally posted by loner72:
However we need to understand that there were specific reasons for those statements, and those reasons don't exist anymore. Going back to the treatment of Jews in the Gospel of John, no one would agree on that anymore.

Not so sure about that, exactly this kind of thing is still used by some people to justify their prejudices.

I do get what you're saying... but couldn't that apply just as easily to any other part of the Bible? Isn't that manipulating what the Bible says to fit the way you live, rather than living according to the Bible?

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:55 pm

@Fable: LOL! You're right. And about the versions of the Bible, that will always be with us, since Greek and Hebrew are so dang difficult to translate in any standard fashion...That's why there are so many sects out there each toting a different translation and convinced that theirs is the right one. And there's no arguing becasue many times two or three translations of a passage can be acceptable, because of the ambiguities of the ancient languages.

I think every single person who reads the Bible should go study it at a good university, just a couple of courses. Then they would learn about the cultural/societal/historical factors I'm talking about.