What is a "hit dice"?

antich · Post by **antich** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 10:56 am

As in many spells descriptions we read something like "creatures with 4 HD or less have no save, 6HD are not affected" or something similar.. So what does this hit dice mean? How is it related to hit points? Level?

Because i don't exactly understand that i don't know when which spell to use, and that makes me insane sometimes...

Appreciate your explanation

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:10 am

The lvl times the hit dice = the Hit points

antich · Post by **antich** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:21 am

So hit dice uses which dice? d6 or d10 or which?

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:28 am

Hit Dice = Level for monsters... Dunno why they didn't just call it "level".

As far as I know, all monster Hit Dice are rolled with a D8.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:31 am

It varries

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:04 pm

xyx is pretty much right. HD is the number of times a character or creature has rolled a dice for determining hit points. For mages this is a 4 sided dice,rogues are 6 sided, priests are 8 sided, and warriors are 10 sided. Monsters use an 8 sided dice. HD just translates to level but the game uses HD because monsters don´t have levels, just a fixed HD. Voila!

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:20 pm

HD isn't exactly the same as levels: you can only get to 9 or 10 HD with any (N)PC, after you reach the appropriate level, you get the "+..." addition to your hit die (it's like a more powerful subcategory, but you'll NEVER reach the 11th HD)

TC, Geert

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:15 pm

It´s still considered a HD when you´re above level 9 for determining spell level and such. The +something categori is only for determining hit points (confused?)

In short you can be a 16 level character or a 16 HD monster and be affected the same by spells (like death spell) that looks at HD before determining effect.

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:34 pm

In PnP you just stayed at 9+x HD. Normally, a spell would check the target's *level* to determine effects. Monsters don't have any *levels*, so their *HD* was used instead. (At least, that's how it was over here

)

TC, Geert

antich · Post by **antich** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 1:05 am

Quite a mess

But i got the idea, thanks!

So, all the monsters use d8 for rolling? Why? I mean, they have to keep track of not only hit points but of HD for each monster too, for the sake of determining how this or that spell affects it. So how do they decide which monster rolls how many times? Or is it something determined in AD&D rules?

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: Rentgen ]

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 3:16 am

According to dnd rules (3e) creatures of varying types use different hit dice. For instance: humanoids (elves, humans, gnomes, orcs and so forth) giants (ogres, trolls, giants) monstrous humanoids (centaurs, minotaurs, medusas) outsiders (from demons to angels and probably elementals, I don't remember) and abberations (umber hulks, mind flayers) use the d8 die. Feys (like nymphs) use d6. Dragons and undead use d12.
A human(oid) gains another hit die for every level he accumulates (the type of hit die also depends on the character class) up to level 9 or 10. From that point he only gets extra hit points but not extra hit dice. From level 10 or 11 the creature rises in levels only. This means human(oid)s can only get up to 9 HD.
Monsters who do not have a character class only go up in their monster class which is measured by HD (unless they're humanoids)

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 7:52 am

Right, thimk of it this way. If a wizard of lets say 17´th level tried to dispel the magic of an ancient dragon with say 16 HD it would be a very difficult thing to do (16-9 =7 - 11-7= 4 out of 20 = 25% chance of succes) if he never goes beyond 9 HD whereas a wizard of 17 HD would stand a much better chance of succeeding. I realize that it´s just a matter of definition, but I find that thinking of HD and level as the same thing makes monster/character comparison much easier.

Oh, well. I think I´m just making things even more complicated now.

Vinin · Post by **Vinin** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 1:46 pm

Hmmm, but on other threads I distinctly remember trolls of the same type having VASTLY different hit points. If they are same HD shouldnt they have same hit points?

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 7:50 am

Nope
First of all, 2 creatures of the same type can have different number of hit dice (perhaps one is older/more experienced). Second, remember that you need to roll the hit die. That means if it's a d8 that means that the hit die gives between 1 and 8 hit points.

And there's always the constitution modifiers.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:23 pm

All creatures are spawned off a template with their Hit Points already determined. No Hit Dice are ever rolled for monsters.

The reason that Trolls need such varying amounts of damage to drop is that their scripts often "miss" dying when they suffer a heavy battering...

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 1:30 pm

Rodo: very true for pnp; not so for computer games, though.
Xyx: very true.

Yuusuke · Post by **Yuusuke** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 3:03 pm

I've played AD&D games for a while now, both PnP and PC, but till this very day, I still have no idea just what the hell exactly Hit Dice controls, I know that it controls hit points but I also know it controls other stuff like levels, spells known, and whatnot, but I'm murky on the details. And here is why, I shall provide the official definition of what Hit Dice are in a word-for-word quote straight off a 2nd edition AD&D Monstrous Compendium.

"HIT DICE controls the number of hit points damage a creature can withstand before being killed. Unless otherwise stated. Hit Dice are 8-sided (1-8 hit points). The Hit Dice are rolled and the numbers shown are added to determine the monster's hit points. Some monsters have a hit point spread instead of Hit Dice, and some have additional points added to their Hit Dice. Thus, a creature with 4+4 Hit Dice has 4d8+4 hit points (8-36). Note that creatures with +3 or more hit points are considered the next higher Hit Die for purposes of attack rolls and saving throws."

Feel free to print out a copy and take it to your lawyer for an interpretation.

eschew · Post by **eschew** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 4:57 pm

Well.. call me dense if you will (just not out loud) but I still don't quite get it SO here is my q - which is better: 2d4 or 1d8?

Math tells me it's the same thing but that can't be right..

Yuusuke · Post by **Yuusuke** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 5:08 pm

Well, hrmph, I guess it depends on what you feel is "good" assuming that good means achieving the highest number possible then 1d8 is better, since your chances of rolling an eight with a d8 is 12.5% while your chances of rolling two 4's with a d4 is only 6.25%.

But if good means the least risk of rolling the lowest number possible then that means 2d4 is better since the chance of rolling a 1 with a d8 is 12.5% but there's no chance of rolling a 1 with 2d4.

And if you count 2 as the lowest number possible since the chance of rolling a 1 is impossible with 2d4, then 2d4 is still better in that case because the chance of rolling a 2 with 2d4 is 6.25% while the chance of rolling a 2 with a d8 is still 12.5%.

eschew · Post by **eschew** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 5:14 pm

whoa... you are *good!

*laughs*

I get it now.. thanks.