Fable's House of 3D Pancakes and Spam

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:01 pm

Thank you. Thank you all!

What's new, everybody?

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:04 pm

@CE: Kagemusha means "the double". The double for kings/emperors/shoguns etc.

I haven't read all of Mishima's works, so I am not a expert on his writings. I think his writings are uniquely west meets east; I mean, he's not too westernized, but nor traditional Japanese style either. That is strange in a way, as he was an extreme nationalist. I like his sharp description and splended choice of words. I don't know if those can be translated in English as he intended, to be honest.

EDIT
Hello, Georgi and Gwalchmai (and congrats for you).

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: Minerva ]

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:10 pm

@Georgi: Hi, it's always nice to meet other night owls

@Gwalchmai: Nothing much new here, I finished Planescape:Torment today and rain has been pouring down all day. How about you?

@Minerva: When I first read Mishima as a teenager, the style and language was what struck me the most. Probably it's even better in original. In English, his prose is like poetry, abstract, symbolic and yet very sharp and almost minimalistic. Later on, I started appreciating the East-meets-West thing. I guess culture clashes always fascinate me although they often hold tragic elements.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:19 pm

@CE It has been cold and rainy here all day too

and it's going to be the same for the rest of the week I think.

@Gwalchmai nothing much new here, I still haven't found a summer job, soon there won't be much summer left!

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:21 pm

@CE: "Symbolic" may be a character of traditional Japanese writings. If you read classic Japanese poems (Tanka or Waka, in particular), there are many symbolic words in them. We tend to avoid describe things directly, and that reflects in poetry and novels, I think.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:37 pm

@Georgi: I believe Swedish and British summer are quite similar. Either it's baking hot, or it's raining a lot

What kind of job are you looking for?

@Minerva: Hm, I've never read Japanese poetry. Do you think it's any idea to read it in English? Or is too much lost in the translation?
Describing things in an indirect way is, I think, one of the points with literature. It makes you see other things than what first meets the eye

The Swedish tradition is typically realistic or social realistic, the so called "I novel", ie self biographic novels describing peoples lives and relationships, are the most common.
What Western writers do you like?

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:46 pm

@CE sounds about right. We've had a few weeks of hot weather, I think that was the entire summer

I started out looking for some kind of office job, data entry or something, but having been told by several temp agencies that they don't have enough work to go round, I am getting more desperate, and less picky. Just about anything is better than where I've worked the last two summers, fruit picking (among other things) at a local farm.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:50 pm

@Georgi, hi.

CE writes:
You know Flemish? That's a language I don't understand a spoken word of.

I used to know it enough to follow it fairly well, after spending half a year as an exchange student (back in the 16th century) in Amstelveen, and subsequently befriending a number of French-speaking Flemish folks at a university where I ran the public radio station. (They came to me for Flemish translations. Strange.)

I love Kurosawa's Seven samurai, Yojimbo (sp? The first film featuring Mifune, what a great actor) and Throne of Blood. I have never seen any of the other directors you mention. Japanase film, like literature, is considered narrow and "intellectual" here, so it's difficult to find.

Yojimbo is right. You might look for Sanjuro, his other film following the same landless samurai. Roshomon was his first big hit outside Japan. (The story goes that it was included in a group of releases sent overseas for evaluation as foreign festivals because they were one short. When it won numerous awards, the studio executives claimed it was because gaijins didn't understand the Japanese.) It demonstrates the subjectivity of reality, as we watch what might be a murder (or a suicide) in feudal Japan replayed from the perspective of four different people, all seeing something entirely different.

(I remember watching a Simpsons episode where they went to Japan. As they're arguing over whether to go, Marge says, "But Homer, you always said you liked Roshomon," and he replies, "That's not the way *I* remember it!" -A wonderful in-gag.)

Ran is Kurasawa's version of King Lear, and a superb film, too.

Mizoguchi did a lot of films that tend to focus on Japanese prostitutes and peasants, frequently in the feudal period. (His early life was one of grinding poverty, and his sister, forced into prostitution to support the family, died young.) They are beautiful, disturbing films. Ugetsu is perhaps my favorite, for its elegance, its sense of story, and its humanism. Try to rent a copy and see it, if you can.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:56 pm

@Fable hello

and...

@all goodnight, I must be off to bed, see y'all later

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:58 pm

@Georgi, night.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:01 pm

@Georgi: Hope you find a job

Good night!

@Fable: Thanks for your recommendations, the trouble is to find those films. I missed almost *all* of the films Swedish TV showed last winter because I was at holiday in Morocco.

I've seen Ran, but I didn't like a lot for some reason, it's one of his most popular films in Sweden. For Shakespeare adaptation, any Shakespeare adaptation, I think Throne of Blood (Macbeth) is outstanding.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:02 pm

@CE: I'm sure there are some translated ones, so I'll check it.

The western literature? Hmmm, let me think... I read without any particular order. I just read what I'm interested in.

Having said that, I've been reading mainly my research related books for past 7,8 years. It's a shame, but even for me, reading for research, and then reading for pleasure during my off time can be too much sometimes...

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:25 pm

@Minerva: Please do check it

Thank you, I think I'm incredibly lucky to get literature recommendations from you since who are both interested in literature AND bilingual

I recognise the problem with reading so much research related texts so that reading doesn't feel like a pleasure anymore. I have regained my joy in reading the last couple of years, before that I only read normal books at my holidays for about 5 years

For Western literature, I particularly like Greek drama, Renaissance drama and poetry, Russian social realism and some European modernists. Of contemporary writers, Umberto Eco is a favorite. There's no need to read it in any particular order, I read it almost backwards historically speaking

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:39 pm

@CE: I enjoy reading Umbert Eco, though I read them in Japanese.

I read most of Shakespear's works, but in Japanese. I'm reading 16th century archives for my research, and I don't really want to read more of those for fun...

I'm going to bed now. Speak to you soon.

Goodnight, everyone.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:48 pm

Good night Minerva, I'm also going to bed soon. It's soon dawn here at the Subarctic latitudes

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 9:17 pm

@Minerva, night.

I wonder if she reads The Tale of Genji in Japanese?

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:15 pm

"Subarctic latitudes" sounds nice this time of year for me...

A thick discussion of 'culture'. Hmmm. You would think that such talk would hold my interest, since I am an anthropologist. Ah, well. I am of the low-brow variety. Honestly, though, I wish I could immerse myself in such things. I've always admired people like yourselves. Imagine! Talking about esoteric Japanese movies on the one hand, then toddling off to play a computer game on the other. That would be the life!

Brink · Post by **Brink** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:22 pm

@C Elegans-Sorry for running off like that...I was rushing for school

@Gwalchmai-Heya

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:36 pm

Heya, Brink. Sorry, but I have to go to bed now. Take it easy.

Brink · Post by **Brink** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:41 pm

@Gwalchmai-I will

.Good night