Gender Preconceptions - No Spam

[Mr Sleep]

Since SYM is of a fairly well distributed gender, it occured to me that it would be interesting to see the opinions of members on the natural gender preconceptions that circulate in society.

For instance it is assumed that most gamers are male. Is this correct or should this be more of an equal playing field?

I will post more gender preconceptions as they come to my damaged psyche

[CM]

As i have said i am a chauvinist, so do you *really* want me to answer this???

[Mr Sleep]

Yes, it is a debate on the relevance of gender stereotyping so any opinions relating to that - even chavaunistic - are welcome.....just don't expect everyone to like them

[Maharlika]

@Sleep, to answer your question, yes, I seem to see it that way. Don't mean to be chauvinistic (like Fas here ) but I observed in a lot of net cafes that provide games, the females who tend to play looks like they are just playing to get closer to the boys. *somehow I can sense that I'm gonna get flamed for this by the fairer folk*

For one, I have observed that these females often play bad. Nevertheless they seem to enjoy playing with the males. LAN games are very popular here.

More often than not, in these cafes the females use the Net, ICQ, Pirch, etc. and not play games.

[VoodooDali]

Hey Sleep--the only SYMer who noticed I was female.

I usually use VoodooDali as my gaming identity, which is a vague name. I actually usually remain vague when people I've played with online try to figure out what gender I am, because it's more interesting that way.

I've noticed that there is a difference in the way I'm treated. I have to say that the following is *in general*. I can think of a lot of exceptions to the following scenarios. Usually people assume I'm male. Actually, when I think about it, when dealing with other females online, I've sensed no difference in the way they react--or at least, no incidents come to mind. When I've played games online where I have a partner--and games are weird in general since they are so competitive--if my partner is male and assumes I'm male, and I make a mistake--he really gives me a hard time, a lot of insults, etc. If he assumes I'm female, he will often say, "That's okay." I guess the underlying belief is that I'm mentally handicapped, and so can't be expected to perform as well in the game. On the other hand, I sure prefer the treatment I receive as a female. Men are really mean to each other! Another interesting thing I've noticed is that in online games where you can kill the other player--if the guys playing know I'm female, they are much more insulted when I kill them! I guess it's emasculating or something?

As far as games go, I think BG is the perfect game for both genders for the most part. You have a good experience either way, and there are elements that both men and women enjoy in the game. The game that women are supposed to love--The Sims--I played it for about two weeks and got bored.

What I'm curious about is how many men out there enjoy passing themselves off as female?

There are some good articles on gender-bending on this website: [url="http://www.womengamers.com"]www.womengamers.com[/url]

[CM]

Well stereotypes are the norm of society it just makes it easier to describe and understand different societies and cultures.
My gender baises are based on traditions and the culture from where i come.

If i marry - now that is a big if - my wife will not be allowed (chauvinistic, rude and crude to say allowed by that is how i see it) to work until the children are in there teens.
She can work before having kids, but one is that my ego could not hold her working a full time job.

Lets see what else?
Women are horrible drivers, but hey that is a given!

Women are far more emotionally instable than men.
Is this what you want to discuss sleep?

[NCT]

I've been playing RPGs,for quite sometime and the large majority of the players are male.However,the female players seem on the increase the past 3-4 years,something that begs a few questions,since RPGs deal mostly in a warlike atmosphere.Good topic for research this.I'll dig a bit and get back.

[CM]

Ah for gaming my bad - stupid me!

But i agree with my fellow COMMarde, women tend to play badly.
Now Voodoo that isn't because we think you are mentally inferior.
It is because we believe you don't play as much as we do.
A guy at a comp game will spend 7 tp 8 hours before he leaves the game.
From what i have seen a women will play fpr 1 hour max then do something else and then come back to it.

And yes guys tend to take it easier on girls when they are playing with them, because i believe you aren't aficandos of the gaming world - meaning you don't play 24/7. Second yes i will be insulted if a lady kills me.
She may be far better than me, but the fact that it was a girl would just kill me.

[Mr Sleep]

I wonder whether the problem lies with what we expect from female players, of course women are not going to be adept at something they never practice at, i only became good at FPS after a great deal of practice, throw any person male or female into a game of wits, concerntration and co-ordination without any practice and they are going to struggle. Men.boys tend to spend more time playing games, whereas women are not as encouraged to follow these paths.

[Mr Sleep]

@VDali, i play quite a lot of FPS on LANs and for some reason i do not get aggressive and i don't get blood lust or any of the effects which are common, in fact i tend to unwind when i play competitive games of that nature.

The internet as a community is very prone to gender bending, the idea that one is virtual leads to a whole set of different rules on how one conducts themselves on line. It will be interesting to see how those rules and preconceptions change over the coming years with more and more people online.

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Mr Sleep ]

[fable]

There may have been more boys playing than girls, and more boys than men, at one point (why not expand this to include teenage boy stereotyping?), but I don't think that's the case, any longer. At least two major gaming companies that dropped a ton of money into "games for girls" folded relatively quickly, because girls didn't want to play conversation games; they wanted to do exactly what their brothers did on the computer: waves swords, cast spells, kill things, micromanage resources, fly spaceships and planes, etc.

And as these kids have grown up, they've continued playing, so that we have more sophisticated audiences on the computer than the generation that grew up on games a decade or two ago--since this group has raised the bar of what's acceptable.

Which isn't to say that sexism has vanished, just because many more women are now playing games. I've occasionally placed female avatars into online MUDs and such, and been fascinated with the different way in which I'm treated. I'm given items, ushered around, watched over carefully; and berated or insulted if I contradict anything or ask questions. I'm supposed to be spoonfed, and like it, evidently.

[VoodooDali]

MMORPG's are the wave of the future, I guess, and it will be interesting to see how much people take advantage of all that role-playing has to offer, and what they learn from it.

Actually, I play for hours on end, as hooked as any of you guys out there. My husband only gets to use the computer while eating breakfast! Mwahahaha.

I seem to one of (I suspect) many out there who don't fit the core gamer type--female, late 30's...

Another thing this brings to mind, is that when I tell people my age and older that I'm really into gaming, I often get reactions of disgust! They think I'm wasting my life. I think that games are the new art form. Just as film was not taken seriously in its infancy, games are not taken seriously now--but I believe that will change. I got into a heated argument with a friend of my husband's who knew nothing about gaming, and said he wouldn't let his daughter play games, he thought they were corrupting, too violent, etc. I told him he was turning into a reactionary old fart--would he say the same about music?--forbid her to listen to old Black Sabbath records and such? She'll probably turn into a gamer!

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by VoodooDali:
<STRONG>MMORPG's are the wave of the future, I guess, and it will be interesting to see how much people take advantage of all that role-playing has to offer, and what they learn from it.</STRONG>

I think we will still see a great proportion of guys trying to pick up girls, men expecting the women to stay as maidens while they go off and obtain some such treasure for the beatiful maiden. I don't think that will ever change Men always want to be Knights in shining armour

<STRONG>
Another thing this brings to mind, is that when I tell people my age and older that I'm really into gaming, I often get reactions of disgust! They think I'm wasting my life. I think that games are the new art form. Just as film was not taken seriously in its infancy, games are not taken seriously now--but I believe that will change. I got into a heated argument with a friend of my husband's who knew nothing about gaming, and said he wouldn't let his daughter play games, he thought they were corrupting, too violent, etc. I told him he was turning into a reactionary old fart--would he say the same about music?--forbid her to listen to old Black Sabbath records and such? She'll probably turn into a gamer!</STRONG>

Hopefully she wont take up some of Ozzys more interesting habits Hamster anyone?

Age really shouldn't have anything to do with having fun and testing yourself. There are differences to every norm. Just as some retired people spend time out cycling others prefer the indoors and whiling away there time without pleasure.

[Maharlika]

Originally posted by VoodooDali:
<STRONG>
I seem to one of (I suspect) many out there who don't fit the core gamer type--female, late 30's...

Another thing this brings to mind, is that when I tell people my age and older that I'm really into gaming, I often get reactions of disgust! They think I'm wasting my life. I think that games are the new art form. Just as film was not taken seriously in its infancy, games are not taken seriously now--but I believe that will change. I got into a heated argument with a friend of my husband's who knew nothing about gaming, and said he wouldn't let his daughter play games, he thought they were corrupting, too violent, etc. I told him he was turning into a reactionary old fart--would he say the same about music?--forbid her to listen to old Black Sabbath records and such? She'll probably turn into a gamer!</STRONG>

Honestly, I don't see age having anything to do with appreciating games. As modern technology develops itself at an increasing rate, the games we play arent just for "sheer entertainment." They make you THINK and be analytical.

I'm not an expert in psychology but I do remember reading somewhere the difference between the sexes when it comes to perspective.

e.g., given a (floor)plan of their future house, the husband would immediately see the posts, the pipes, the wirings, etc. while the wife would figure out the best panelling, the perfect curtains for each room, etc.

My point is, such behavior normally found among males may be a reason why most people who play our kind of games are males.

Correct me if I'm wrong fellas.

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by Maharlika:
<STRONG>My point is, such behavior normally found among males may be a reason why most people who play our kind of games are males.

Correct me if I'm wrong fellas.</STRONG>

That is exactly what i mean by pre-conceptions, that a man would be more adept due to such and such study, however doesn't one adapt past those behavioural normailities?

[Dottie]

I realy HATE gender stereotypes, why cant people be just people and allowed to create thier own identity?

Generalizations like "womans mind works diferently then males" and such does only serve to destroy individuality, and when any generalization is applied to a certain individual it becomes discriminating.

[fable]

Originally posted by Maharlika:
<STRONG>I'm not an expert in psychology but I do remember reading somewhere the difference between the sexes when it comes to perspective.

e.g., given a (floor)plan of their future house, the husband would immediately see the posts, the pipes, the wirings, etc. while the wife would figure out the best panelling, the perfect curtains for each room, etc. </STRONG>

Funny. I'm the one in my family who sees color combination possibilities, shapes superimposed upon an empty room, the way several items can subtly reinforce the image of a central piece of furniture or a painting, etc. My wife asks about the plumbing, the siding, the insulation, etc, when we look at a new house. She also replaced a wall in her old house, before I ever knew her, doing all the work herself.

But you see, my folks were from urban NYC, and lived in apartments until they decided to raise a family. They knew nothing about house repairs. My wife's father, though, is heavily into that sort of thing, and my wife was the first kid in the family. She watched, and she learned it all.

Which only shows that upbringing and social conditioning are responsible for these mindsets, not some inherent x/y chromosome factor.

[Celegorm]

hm... well i guess my experiences have given me a different outlook.

i've found with the games i've played there really aren't very many true females (obviously) but the percentage of those who actually get serious about it and play the game instead of just doing it to flirt or as a novelty, do it really well and is higher than that of a guy.

guys just play because they can, and the sterotype is that they do. so they stick around and keep playing even though they may not be so great at it.

so in MMORPGs now, there's a lot of guys at higher levels, but not many of them are any good. now, the few girls who get over the learning curve are really good, and they're serious. something a lot of guys lack. because they're just playing because they're friends do. and they get to stare at half dressed elves running around.

i think the 20+ male crowd is pretty good in the mmorpg's i've played, they don't bull**** around often and keep the game down to earth. there are, like in any catagory though, that are complete morons.

as for guys playing girls and girls playing guys. it comes on all levels. i know of a member of the US navy who plays a female, and is in a leadership role in her guild. there was also an all female guild on the EQ server i played on who was formed and lead by a male who played a female, at least thats what i was told for the most part i think 50-60% of all the female characters you come across in games like EQ are really guys. and as long as the "girl" stays in character and doesn't start asking for my email addy or if i'd like to call them, i don't care.

its a game made to roleplay, nothing wrong with pretending you have a chest larger or smaller than you really do... isn't that what we all do with our mind, strength and other parts of our body? just remember it is a game, and leave those characteristics there, please.

[VoodooDali]

As usual, I agree with Fable. I was brought up the only girl in my family with three brothers. I've noticed that I tend to not pay attention to color combinations, don't really care about fashion at all (Living in the NYC area is great--you just have to wear black all the time like everybody else). However, shopping is a different matter...have to drag my husband kicking and screaming to the grocery store--he's always asking, "Do we have to go down every aisle???"

[NeKr0mAnCeR]

when i play online i always use a female avatar if possible, cause i like women so i can look at one and play at the same time

also in some games beign a female has some benefits. like in fallout2, you can get discounts (after doing a "quest") if you are a female. in unreal females are smaller and thus harder to hit (at least i think so)

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: NeKr0mAnCeR ]