A question about Tolkeins works

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:32 pm

Good gawd. I have stumbled into the very den, living room, and kitchen of inequity.

Foul does you a disservice by failing to mention the lawsuits brought about by TSR hobbies against the Tolkien family for his blatant plagiarism. His final, and labeled by some in the know penultimate work, Tom Bombadil and Sauron Ride Again was quashed by the courts.

Foul Dwimmerlaik · Post by **Foul Dwimmerlaik** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:53 pm

Originally posted by Waverly:
<STRONG>Foul does you a disservice by failing to mention the lawsuits brought about by TSR hobbies against the Tolkien...</STRONG>

A very good point, I'd forgotten to mention it. Some debate this fact, but come on.

Top Ten Proofs That Tolkien Ripped Off D&D:
10) Dwarves
9) Magic
8)There are even hobbits (halflings)
7)Elves in Tolkien suspiciously similar to the originals in D&D Basic edition.
6)Tolkien was once recorded as attributing his start in fantasy to Gygax: "...and long had I though about exploring the mythopoeic realms of fantasy through my pen...and I had created a land for the creatures to live, a land beautiful and full of of life...but to people this land- to fill it with verdant and activity, and what better suited than than the conniving "orcs", "elves" and magic of Dungeons & Dragons...what better way to capture the hearts of both young and old..."
5) Evil vs. Good.
4)Mithril
3)Tolkien, though a very literary man, didn't have a WHOLE lot of imagination- above what he took from others. The vast body of his work was TRANSLATIONS from other people's writings (Sir Gwain, Beowulf,etc), he was primarily a philoligist, not a fiction writer (though I admit he's pretty great)
2) Three six-siders found on his grave in England
1) Dragons. Smaug, hello, RED DRAGON.

GandalfgalTTV · Post by **GandalfgalTTV** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:12 pm

ROFL!

That's good.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:27 pm

hmm, If I recall, Tolkien took a lot of his stories from classical mythology. So magic, dwarves elves etc were around prior to D&D.
Dragons have been around FOREVER, nice try there...

I disagree entirely entirely about your comment about him not being creative. The songs and poems in the Hobbit especially are very creative and interesting.
The plot of characters are the greatest strength to the series, something which does not come through copycatting.
Lets not forget all the maps he created.
And honestly, who ever heard of a Halfling for a hero before Tolkien came along.
I had more, but I forgot what it was in my rage

Some other devoted LOTR'ers will finish you infidels

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:39 pm

@KE, he's pulling your leg.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:43 pm

Man, sarcasm JUST DOESNT WORK WHEN TYPED!!!

Good stuff however.
fable, you still haven't explained who ER Eddison is or any examples of his work.

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:45 pm

@Foul Dwimmerlaik: Just a little bit of fact. D&D was first released in 1974. And the Hobbit was first published in 1937, and The Return of The King(the last book of the LOTR) was first published in 1956. Both of which are quite a few years ahead of D&D, and I read somewhere that D&D characters were based on Tolkien novels.

Getting back on topic I really liked the Hobbit, LOTR, and the Silmarillion eqaully, but on different levels. I didn't really like any of the unfinished tales or anything that his kids had put together from his notes as it says in the introductions. The Hobbit is just a fun book to read because, up until they reach the Lonely Mountain, you're waiting to see what happens to Thorin and Co. rather than what adventures they go on. In LOTR the whole story is filled with the thought of the evil eye of the enemy watching over, but will they get there in time. And the Silmarillion just makes you say this guy was a genious when you're done. To create, inhabit, and explain the events to present in one book is a marvel, and I really wish I new where my copy of it was so I could start reading it when I finish with RoTK.

This goes out to whomever said that LOTR and the Silmarillion were rip offs of the Hobbit. The guy wrote the Hobbit as a bed time story for his kids. So he publishes it and makes some money. This guy was no idiot looking for a quick buck. He went to Oxford and studied mythology(mainly nordic and celtic) and english. That's where he got his ideas from aside from the hobbits for I don't believe there were any Halflings in Norse mythology. But that is what he was interested in so he created a world with characters based in mythology, norse mythology did have elves, dwarves, and humans. This man had been drawing maps and making notes here and there for years after, during, and before each book he wrote about this world he created, and he would write stories about this fantasy world of his. I don't know why you would think there's a problem with this. Plenty of other authors have written many books all about the same general topic whether it be a main character, a certain town, or a certain time period. Are you gonna go crusify George Lucas now for writting I don't even know how many books about the same thing, and making 6 movies(out of order no less) about one story. The reason I know all this stuff is cause I had to do a biography on an author back in HS and I picked Tolkien because out of all the books I've read fantasy novels are the only ones I can actually sit down and read and the first and best one's so far were his.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:57 am

Originally posted by Waverly
Good gawd. I have stumbled into the very den, living room, and kitchen of inequity.

Foul does you a disservice by failing to mention the lawsuits brought about by TSR hobbies against the Tolkien family for his blatant plagiarism. His final, and labeled by some in the know penultimate work, Tom Bombadil and Sauron Ride Again was quashed by the courts.

LOL.
What about the orcs and the dark elves .

Totally took the dark elves from the drow.