Harry Potter

[Nightmare]

What do ya think of the books?

Personally, the books are extremely good. But all the commercialization now about it (Harry Potter action figures, Harry Potter bath towels... ) is bad.

Now, the movie. I was certain it was going to be bad, until I saw the final trailer a week ago. It comes out on Friday in North America, and IIRC its already out in England. Just I won't be able to see it for weeks. Tickets are being booked so far ahead...

What do you think of Harry Potter?

[fable]

I have one major problem with the books (of which I've read the first three). The whole HP universe is built around the notion that there are a huge number of people who are ordinary and powerless, while a privileged few are gifted to be wonderful, colorful, and magical. The latter are everything. The former are to be despised, pitied, or treated like pets because they're "cute."

To me, everybody's got the potential to be something special, and I don't think kids should be brought up on feudal crap that gets them thinking along lines of "belonging to the only worthwhile group around."

Yeah, I know I'm bucking the marketing hype with this. Not for the first time.

[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

[ThorinOakensfield]

I haven't read the series and don't plan too unless the movie makes me think otherwise.
I stick to Dragonlance and Tolkein.

BTW, LotR coming out Dec 18. IIRC. Can't wait.

[average joe]

I've never read them, though they do catch my interest with the huge following. I must ask...what is the big deal? I'm just curious. Aren't they children's books? Or am i wrong? I'm still waiting for the next Wheel of Time....actually, i should prolly check for any recent news on it.

[Tamerlane]

My parents often buy the books for my younger brother when we go on holidays. He reads a few pages and throws the book over to me.

I've read the first four now and they're actually not bad. Better then most of the fantasy stuff out there.

[Maharlika]

I have read the fourth book and I found it "entertaining" , like, I didn't look at it as seriously as I would read a Tolkien book. I found it amusing in a nice kind of way.

The way I see it, Ms(?) Rawlings' target audience is basically the kids or the kids-in-us. Like one of those Hardy Boys series.

I would like to think that all those commercialization (that word again, I know) is primarily for that purpose in catering to their primary target audience.

Here in Thailand where I work, HP is a huge success (thanks to the translation of the books into Thai, plus all those commercial hype). A lot of my students are into it and even much of the local young adults.

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>I have one major problem with the books (of which I've read the first three). The whole HP universe is built around the notion that there are a huge number of people who are ordinary and powerless, while a privileged few are gifted to be wonderful, colorful, and magical. The latter are everything. The former are to be despised, pitied, or treated like pets because they're "cute."

To me, everybody's got the potential to be something special, and I don't think kids should be brought up on feudal crap that gets them thinking along lines of "belonging to the only worthwhile group around."

Yeah, I know I'm bucking the marketing hype with this. Not for the first time.

[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: fable ]</STRONG>

Fable has some points to ponder there.

However, I saw it in another kind of way. True, there was this concept of being "special." But somehow, what I understood on this concept was more on being responsible for being special. The magically-gifted ones are always reminded by their society not to use magic if they are not in their territory.

Because of this, "our world" is not aware that "their" world exists.

Reminds me of being a mutant in the world of the X-men. With power comes responsibilities. Unfortunately, the non-mutants know they exist and a number are afraid of them/hate them, which perhaps the wise members of HP's secret society thought would happen if their existence were made public.

[average joe]

Originally posted by Maharlika:
<STRONG>Reminds me of being a mutant in the world of the X-men. With power comes responsibilities. Unfortunately, the non-mutants know they exist and a number are afraid of them/hate them, which perhaps the wise members of HP's secret society thought would happen if their existence were made public.</STRONG>

X-men...now that's a classic



Really though, i was impressed with the quality of the movie, X-men, considering it was what it was. What that is i'm not exactly for sure, but it certainly wasn't bad. I hope a sequel comes out.

[Georgi]

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
<STRONG>Now, the movie. I was certain it was going to be bad, until I saw the final trailer a week ago. It comes out on Friday in North America, and IIRC its already out in England. Just I won't be able to see it for weeks. Tickets are being booked so far ahead...</STRONG>

Officially it comes out Friday here, but it previewed all weekend. I didn't get to it, but I know someone who did, and they quite liked it. Main criticism was that it was too long - and 2.5 hours is pushing it for a kids' movie, IMO. From what I've seen of the trailers, it looks fairly entertaining, but unlikely to have any of the extra adult humour that the likes of Toy Story had. There's a lot of talent in the cast, so let's hope it's good

BTW, I haven't read the books. Heck, I only just started reading The Fellowship of the Ring

@AJ I think X Men 2 is in production at the moment, and it will revolve around Wolverine and his quest to discover his identity. (How could you doubt they would make a sequel, after the ending to the first one that would win "Most Blatent Set-Up for a Sequel" Oscar, if such a thing existed? )

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Georgi ]

[HighLordDave]

Originally posted by Georgi:
<STRONG>How could you doubt they would make a sequel, after the ending to the first one that would win "Most Blatent Set-Up for a Sequel" Oscar, if such a thing existed?</STRONG>

The first X-Men movie was the "necessary evil" of the franchise that established the link between 30+ years of comic book lore and how it would be portrayed on screen. Just as they had to make a first Star Trek movie (which sucked), they had to make a first X-Men movie to lay the groundwork for a half-dozen sequels.

I saw the Harry Potter trailer at Monsters, Inc. and it looked very, very good. Lots of top rate talent: John Cleese, Maggie Smith, Robbie Coltrane, Warwick Davis et al. My wife and boy rave about the books; I'll have to read up on them before we go see the movie. The fundy Christians up the street are already gearing up their protests against Harry Potter's "promotion of witchcraft and the occult". I say, "Get a life!"

@Georgi: If you haven't read The Hobbit yet, read it first.

[Georgi]

Originally posted by HighLordDave:
<STRONG>The first X-Men movie was the "necessary evil" of the franchise that established the link between 30+ years of comic book lore and how it would be portrayed on screen. Just as they had to make a first Star Trek movie (which sucked), they had to make a first X-Men movie to lay the groundwork for a half-dozen sequels.</STRONG>

Yeah, it did have the feel of just being the start of a much bigger story. But you make it sound bad... IMO it was a great movie. Did everything you wanted it to do I've never been a reader of the comics, but from what I've heard there were enough in-jokes to keep the hardcore fans from complaining too much. (Yellow spandex ) The biggest complaint seems to be about the characters that have been left out.

<STRONG>I saw the Harry Potter trailer at Monsters, Inc. and it looked very, very good. Lots of top rate talent: John Cleese, Maggie Smith, Robbie Coltrane, Warwick Davis et al. My wife and boy rave about the books; I'll have to read up on them before we go see the movie. The fundy Christians up the street are already gearing up their protests against Harry Potter's "promotion of witchcraft and the occult". I say, "Get a life!"</STRONG>

Yup, not forgetting Alan Rickman, Richard Harris... I just hope the kiddies aren't too sickly sweet. I thought the fundies had already been protesting about the books... you mean it gets worse?

My mother, of all people, has been raving about the books. So I guess they must be something more than kids' books

<STRONG>@Georgi: If you haven't read The Hobbit yet, read it first.</STRONG>

Thanks for the advice, but I've started now... I haven't read The Hobbit, but I know the story (I saw it done in the theatre once).

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Georgi ]

[scully1]

Originally posted by HighLordDave:
<STRONG>The fundy Christians up the street are already gearing up their protests against Harry Potter's "promotion of witchcraft and the occult". I say, "Get a life!"</STRONG>

A Christian friend sent me an e-mail containing such an article. It "quoted" Rawlings and several random children as cursing Christianity, blaspheming Christ, and praising Satan. This article portrayed "Potter"'s author and fans as so blatantly satanic that I had my doubts as to its authenticity.

In fact, the article came from a German satire magazine and so was -- well, satire. However, Many Christians (including the friend who sent the article to me) took this seriously and still honestly believe that Rawlings is a black-magic priestess or something, who is out to destroy Christianity by teaching the youth of the world to despise it. According to them, this is the purpose of the entire Harry Potter series.

IMO this just reflects a fear that comes from being unconfident in one's own beliefs; fear that anything beyond their understanding could come in and rock their limited world. So they ban things. It goes way back.

[scully1]

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
<STRONG>Personally, the books are extremely good. But all the commercialization now about it (Harry Potter action figures, Harry Potter bath towels... ) is bad.</STRONG>

I know this is a HP discussion; but the same is true of LOTR. When I heard that Burger King had a deal for LOTR stuff my heart just.....

[Georgi]

Everything is overmerchandised these days

BTW, the author is J.K. Rowling, I believe.

[scully1]

Originally posted by Georgi:
<STRONG>BTW, the author is J.K. Rowling, I believe. </STRONG>

Sorry

[humanflyz]

I only have one problem with Harry Potter:

While I am reading it, I am really getting into it. I am addicted to it while I am reading it. However, once I am done, I just put the book on the shelf and won't think about unless something triggers my memory. With other books, for example, Lord Of The Rings, after I am done reading it, I won't forget for a long time. You can ask me anything right now and I can answer them even though it is almost a year since I last read the whole series. That I think is what makes LoTR a better series than Harry Potter.

[Nippy]

Originally posted by humanflyz:
<STRONG>I only have one problem with Harry Potter:

While I am reading it, I am really getting into it. I am addicted to it while I am reading it. However, once I am done, I just put the book on the shelf and won't think about unless something triggers my memory. With other books, for example, Lord Of The Rings, after I am done reading it, I won't forget for a long time. You can ask me anything right now and I can answer them even though it is almost a year since I last read the whole series. That I think is what makes LoTR a better series than Harry Potter.</STRONG>

I am very much the same with books from authors like Andy McNab. If I read a military strategy I have a tendancy to analyse it, I'm not a military strategist but it does interest me.

[Craig]

I know someone who is mad(about the series) but that "Black preistes" stuff is stupid

[ThorinOakensfield]

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>I have one major problem with the books (of which I've read the first three). The whole HP universe is built around the notion that there are a huge number of people who are ordinary and powerless, while a privileged few are gifted to be wonderful, colorful, and magical. The latter are everything. The former are to be despised, pitied, or treated like pets because they're "cute."

To me, everybody's got the potential to be something special, and I don't think kids should be brought up on feudal crap that gets them thinking along lines of "belonging to the only worthwhile group around."

Yeah, I know I'm bucking the marketing hype with this. Not for the first time.

[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: fable ]</STRONG>

fable- its just a kids book. Don't take it so seriously.

[fable]

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
<STRONG>fable- its just a kids book. Don't take it so seriously.</STRONG>

If "kids' books" = "casual stuff, not to be taken seriously," how do you explain the fact that educators, parents, religious institutions and governments everywhere try very hard to determine the content of kids' books? No, it *is* a very serious business. The ideas we stuff into kids' heads have a major effect on their later behavior--and I suspect most parents would agree with me.

[VoodooDali]

I read the first Harry Potter book--I like reading kids books. Couldn't get myself interested in the next one, the second two are just sitting on a shelf and I doubt I'll read them. Don't remember why I lost interest, and that's probably the problem.

Fable, have you ever gone back and read Chronicles of Narnia as an adult? I loved those books as a kid, but as an adult, I was shocked at how overtly preachy they are. Kids don't mind preachy stuff, though.

I didn't really take issue with the special vs. non-special people in the book. I think kids all love the idea that they might have a hidden specialness that no one can see...

Ever read the Susan Cooper books? I highly recommend them, esp. if you like Tolkien. It's five books called The Dark Is Rising Sequence: Silver On The Tree, The Grey King, Greenwitch, The Dark Is Rising, & Over Sea, Under Stone. The title book, The Dark Is Rising, is the best of the lot. All of them are mainly based on Welsh mythology--a lot of stuff from the Mabinogion.