Weapon suggestion for Cavalier?

concluder1 · Post by **concluder1** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 6:28 am

I am starting a new game and I am going with a Cavalier. I plan on getting Keldorn in my party, and plan on giving him Carsomyr to use. Should use it for my Cavalier Instead? I was thinking using sword and shield style for something different. Is this a good style to use, or should I stick with 2-handed swords,Halberds instead?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 6:32 am

Sword and shield style is fairly useless. However a shield can be useful. You could go for axe. There is Azuredge, it can help your cavalier since he can't use missile weapons. Mace is good if you get Mace of disruption. But it would be more Cavalier like to fight with Longsword(Dragonslayer) and dragon shield.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 6:36 am

Or why not use Daystar? A paladins weapon if ever there was one...

concluder1 · Post by **concluder1** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 6:52 am

Is the extra AC bonus you get with shields worth it to go with sword and shield style?

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 6:52 am

I agree about long swords - daystar is an excellent suggestion. Other good ones - the flaming long sword for killing trolls, and the blade of roses. I don't think it's far-fetched that a paladin would use a mace like mace of disruption. I think long sword: dragonslayer is not so great though. It's OK except the regeneration is so slow. 1 HP a minute! Why even bother? I usually just whip it out for dragon battles. I bet a cavalier equipped with it would go good against dragons good though. Aren't cavs immune to fear anyway? So the sword's immunity would not be too important.

If you don't have anomen in your party I would use that flail of ages sometimes. After all, Lord D'Arnise was a noble warrior and HE used a flail. Otherwise give it to anomen, although it's kind of wasted on him.

One other option would be spears.

speedball · Post by **speedball** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 7:30 am

Using an axe and a shield would be good, but it is cheese (since it allows you to use one of the throwing axes when you shouldn't be able to), so if you don't like to cheese...

You could use a 2-handed sword. Use the talking 2-handed sword from the sewers (can't remember the name right now) until you can get the Silver Sword later.

Hammers might be neat, especially with Crom Faeyr.

WizWom · Post by **WizWom** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 8:12 am

You are missing a great opportunity if you ignore dual-wielding. A couple pips in dual weapon style still allows two pips in long sword and axe, mace or hammer. And, of course, you can always go to a shield for the added abilities - shield such as reflection, or Balduran's.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 8:52 am

Originally posted by speedball:
<STRONG>Using an axe and a shield would be good, but it is cheese (since it allows you to use one of the throwing axes when you shouldn't be able to), so if you don't like to cheese...</STRONG>

?!? What axe aren't you supposed to be able to throw when you are wearing a shield? You can use all thrown weapons in one hand, and slings and light crossbows(?) as well.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:01 am

just too bad you cant have a thrown axe, rifthome for example, while dual weilding....hee hee eek!

By all means, next to holy avenger, in soa only, the best wep for a warrior is the silver sword...pick up a couple points for halberd for the wave halber later, and if you decide to be evil, black mist!!! And dragon breath!!

Now if you plan to get soa and keep the same char, get bastard sword and sword and shield prof....

purifier and shild of balduran comes to mind.

your ethos might keep you from using ravager, since it does do poison damage..

but it is by far the best two handed wep in the tob pack, with the possible exception of gram. both rock hard!

Catcher · Post by **Catcher** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:09 am

First, to the original question, I don't believe sword-and-shield style is worth placing slots in. Without it, you can still use a shield effectively; with it the only benefit is a SLIGHT improvement in your missile AC. Better to spread your proficiencies around in the weapons if you plan on making a standard weapon-and-shield fighter. There is a BIG difference weapon-wise between mere proficiency and specialization, much less difference as you progress. If you want to take a style point, look at single weapon style. You get the same AC benefit as a normal shield plus the improved chance of critical hit of the Two-handed style.
As for weapons themselves, take your pick. As far as role-playing a true cavalier goes, I would avoid a halberd as a "footman's" weapon. Further, if you're set on Keldorn, you probably want to avoid two-handed swords (though they are "footman" weapons as well). Other swords, axes, maces, and flails were all fine for the cavalier historically (though the flail's agricultural history made it suspect). Usually, a European-style cavalier would use a sword (long, probably) primary and a smashing weapon (mace or axe) as a secondary weapon. It might be interesting to do an Eastern cavalier with specialties in say katana and wakasashi (sp?) but then samauri were big into bows and good weapons will be harder to find/obtain. Further, the shield was not used in nearly the same way. Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helped.

arattanir · Post by **arattanir** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:42 am

I also agree that if you have Keldorn, you should put points on dual-wielding, long sword and in morningstar. Why? Fighting trolls and Golems? Flail of Ages, Undead? Daystar, Dragons? Dragonslayer. With dual-wielding, you can keep Flai of Ages in one hand and put other long sword into action. You also have Blade of Roses and the Equalizer as other choices.

If you have TOB, you can go to Watcher's Keep and get a long sword called Purifier. It is a 1-H version of Carsomyr, located in the 3rd. level of the dungeon. You will probably be able to stand a chance in there until chapter 6, though.

In ToB, the longswords keepo getting cooler, so it is safe bet to have you char dual wielding to the end. The Flail of Ages also keeps getting stronger.

I found it is better to have the char with gauntlets of dexterity a strong armor and dual wielding, than using a shield. In my games, only Anomen use the stuff.

Catcher · Post by **Catcher** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 10:02 am

First, to the original question, I don't believe sword-and-shield style is worth placing slots in. Without it, you can still use a shield effectively; with it the only benefit is a SLIGHT improvement in your missile AC. Better to spread your proficiencies around in the weapons if you plan on making a standard weapon-and-shield fighter. There is a BIG difference weapon-wise between mere proficiency and specialization, much less difference as you progress. If you want to take a style point, look at single weapon style. You get the same AC benefit as a normal shield plus the improved chance of critical hit of the Two-handed style.
As for weapons themselves, take your pick. As far as role-playing a true cavalier goes, I would avoid a halberd as a "footman's" weapon. Further, if you're set on Keldorn, you probably want to avoid two-handed swords (though they are "footman" weapons as well). Other swords, axes, maces, and flails were all fine for the cavalier historically (though the flail's agricultural history made it suspect). Usually, a European-style cavalier would use a sword (long, probably) primary and a smashing weapon (mace or axe) as a secondary weapon. It might be interesting to do an Eastern cavalier with specialties in say katana and wakasashi (sp?) but then samauri were big into bows and good weapons will be harder to find/obtain. Further, the shield was not used in nearly the same way. Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helped.

Nightfire · Post by **Nightfire** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 10:26 am

As always, the question is: who else will you take along? Is weapon group X already "spoken for" by one of your companions-to-be? Is there a particularly nice weapon you'd like to use in weapon group Y, but no NPC is proficient in it?

Even if you're not using Carsomyr yourself, there are some other nice two-handed swords. Personally, though, I'd go for 2-weapon style and long swords for SoA, then bastard swords in ToB. The upgraded Purifier and Foebane would make for quite a nice -- and appropriate, for a paladin -- combo.

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Nightfire ]

speedball · Post by **speedball** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 10:54 am

Xyx, I was referring to the fact that Cavalier's aren't supposed to be able to use ANY ranged weapons, but CAN use throwing axes and daggers in what I believe is generally accepted as a cheesy exploitation of a game bug.

I know that there are a bunch of ranged weapons that can be used one handed (Jaheira and the Sling of Seeking + one of the STR Girdles comes to mind as a particularly good example), just not by a Cavalier.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 11:00 am

the ac is missile only...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 11:03 am

I did not realize this about sword and shield...thanks!!!!

shields do have their uses, tho. my clerics, jaheira and aerie are the shield carriers in my party, certain shields have perminent protections I want kept up at all times, the refelction shield and shield of balduran come to mind.

but yeah, for the true warrior types, you want to keep them in offensive meelee or offensive ranged attacks at all time. the warriors should keep offensive meelee, in most tight dungeon situations, where ranged is not so critical. only switch to ranged when you got summons out or in a bigger map.

offensive ranged is a two handed sword and bow, in the second slot, to make easy changes to first. offensive meelee is something like belm or kundane or scarlet ninja to in the off hand, for the extra attack, and a bash wep in right hand.

or if its soemthing really nasty, foebane and purifier come to mind.

ut keep in mind while in tob are some really killer weps, in both tob and soa, the best crap is two handed. I love ravager +6! it is so kool! I had to take it away from korgy the first few days because when we rested, he would sleep with it, like some kinda teddy bear, and I didn't want him to cut himself. he's got it under control now, and he's even civil to aerie these days. course, aerie is much spunkier these days anyway, I think giving her several dragons to bash helped.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 12:24 pm

I've noticed Korgan sleeping with the Axe of the Unyielding in one hand and Crom Faeyr in the other - but he said it was "for protection"!?! It's OK if he cut himself because the regeneration would heal him anyway.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 8:29 pm

Aerie is sleeping with storm star...since I am sleeping with jaheira, she has to bunk near Korgan and jan...she muttered something about her virtue and missing hubert her teddy bear and went to sleep clutching storm star...we got woken up by a scream in the middle of the night and found aerie with her hair sticking way out...apparently storm star is actually a portable van de graff generator, and she managed to shock her self silly!!!

Jaheira in maternal mode insisted aerie sleep next to us, and I kinda suspect jaheira considers aerie as not competition but as a surrage daughter...

anyway I told korgy the next day one snicker, one guffaw and he could spend the next month as a squirrel...as he has seen me take down demogorgon solo, he took this threat very seriously...

will have to make it up to him, we plan to hit the next bar together and drink black mountain dwarven ale, the best stuff and swap "how many humans it takes to screw in a torch" jokes and get puking drunk....jaheiera disapproves because when we first traveled together and I got drunk for the first time I blew up the Goat and Hammer tavern in an effort to quiet a bard singing next door in the morning while I was hung over...hmmmmm that bard looked remarkably like haer dalis!!!!

no wonder I can't stand him!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:36 pm

back to the question...sorry about the story...can paladins have 3 points in dual wield?

I think so, since minsc does. anyway you might consider the ultimate speed and hybrid dual wield... belm in one hand and kundane in other...cast imp haste and get around 8 attacks per round...forget whirlwind!

anyway, while this combo is great for chewing thru hordes of ogres and assorted riff raff, for the formal guests in a reception, the ones who rented tuxedos, something more is called for.

put foebane or axe of unyeidling in one hand and kundane in other. good attacks per round, and hit whirlwind for the crucial points in a battle...like when the beastie tries to regenerate or heal itself.

if you have keldy in the party you want to get the purifier upgraded, its mass heal is very useful, and while I think you lose the dispell magic per hit holy avenger has, the ability to csat dispell magic is quite welcome. load up on that spell in your spell book and keldy is great at that too... make sure your mage has plenty of breach and you should be fine.

I don't know...I never cared for the paladin kits or paladins in general, and its due to the low weps proficiencies... warrior kits are just as nice, and punching thru magic defenses is the job of your mage or sorc. the priest spells are nice, but unless wis is 18 or so, you won't get a good amount to suppliment your clerics. you do plan on having clerics, right?

The way I see it, as a paladin your kits redeeming perk is holy avenger and purifier. any strategy, dual wield and sword and shield is based on one of those weapons....

in my opinion there are better weps out there, and you're better off using them as a fighter due to more prof per level you can put in the wep. and the ravager and axe of unyeilding vorpal effect punches right thru stone skin. i tested this, so the big advantage of holy avenger is lost. the magic resist is nice, but then dual a wizard slayer to thief for that.

I'm sorry concluder1, I say,

"don't do it!" either choose another type other than fighter, and get korgy or saverok, or choose a half orc berserker or wizard slayer thief!

Lykwid · Post by **Lykwid** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:41 pm

Id duel weild and use the weapons you need for certian fights, id have points in Flail longsword , then mace then some warhammer. Crom Fear in off hand with flail of ages in mainhand is very very hard to beat. Then you just want the ability to switch to mace of diruption and daystar when you fight undead. For weapons you want in offhand you really only need 1 point in , and only 2 are needed for mainhand weapons (for max attacks per round).

Lykwid