LMAOOriginally posted by Aegis:
<STRONG>Alright C E! Your kicking butt! Keep it up! Whats a "Beetohven"?
(Kidding)</STRONG>
Eminem
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
Originally posted by Aegis:
<STRONG>You are on a roll tonight C E!</STRONG>
I got to get some sleep now, though.@Eminem: I'll be happy to continue discussing with you later
Please also check in on the "Is the internet a root to all evil"-thread, in the discussion about moral and religion I wrote a long post just for you, and you never replied "There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
@Eminem how much Rap music do you listen to? To proclaim that eminem is the best rapper in the world is a joke.
I found Eminem vaguely amusing on his first album but everything he has done since has really bored me (except Stan, which was undoubtedly good ) The idea that this man should be praised for his lack of moral ideals seems slightly awry to me.
i think the other problem with Eminem is Dr Dre, the mans style is just plain boring every song i hear og Dre's sounds the same....
I found Eminem vaguely amusing on his first album but everything he has done since has really bored me (except Stan, which was undoubtedly good ) The idea that this man should be praised for his lack of moral ideals seems slightly awry to me.
i think the other problem with Eminem is Dr Dre, the mans style is just plain boring every song i hear og Dre's sounds the same....
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
@Elegans
Appealing to popularity to assure quality is a usual argument. "Half on the earths population eat rice every day, so rice must be the best food in the world."
If Eminem or someone else is the best rapper in the world, is a question of how we define "best". If we define "good" as selling most records, than Brittney Spears and Back Street Boys are much, much better than Beethoven, Chopin and Tchaikowsky taken together. Also, soap operas and "emotional entertainment" like Jerry Springer talk show, is better than a BBC program about the history of 19th century literture.
Do you get my point?
I get your point and still must disagree. I think popularity IS one indication of success. Take William Shakespeare. "He was not only of an age, but for all time," meaning his theater company (The Lord Chamberlain's Men) was the most popular theater company during his time. His plays were performed in the Globe Theater (the 16th century Broadway) and in the court of the Queen Elizabeth herself. He attracted audiences from the lowest and highest strata of society, and there definintely was no shortage of Puritan critics petitioning the authorities to put a stop to his "immoral" and "licentious" (read: politically incorrect) productions. Charles ****ens is another example. He was the bestseller of the Victorian age, the Stephen King of the 19th century. His books sold very well, yet their place in the English literary canon is undisputed. Leo Tolstoy's works are no different. War and Peace was widely regarded at his time as a masterpiece, and the Russian people responded to the book like a national treasure. The reception of Anna Karenina was, if possible, even greater.
After reading it, Dostoyevsky was seen running down the steets of Moscow proclaiming Tolstoy "the god of art."
I'm willing to bet that if the music of Beethevon, Chopin, and the rest were available to the contemporary masses in the same way the Backstreet Boys and Brittany Spears works are available to us through mass media, they would indeed have been as popular. As it was, only the upper classes were able to enjoy the music of these classic artists. The majority of the populace were too busy ploughing fields and harvesting crops to worry about listening to music. Lastly, I think it is unfair to compare the record sales of classical composers with modern day pop artist. Our musical sensibilities and preferences have changed over the past 300 years. What appealed to the masses in the 17th century will not appeal to audiences in the 21st.
RE: The Internet is the root of all evil thread. I just wanted to state the fact that more deaths have occurred under Communist/Atheist regimes than under governments ruled by men with even a semblance of religiosity. Seeing that the discussion was becoming a debate for/against the existence of God, I figured Theological Quandries had already covered that topic anyway, and I had no desire to begin a parallel thread.
Appealing to popularity to assure quality is a usual argument. "Half on the earths population eat rice every day, so rice must be the best food in the world."
If Eminem or someone else is the best rapper in the world, is a question of how we define "best". If we define "good" as selling most records, than Brittney Spears and Back Street Boys are much, much better than Beethoven, Chopin and Tchaikowsky taken together. Also, soap operas and "emotional entertainment" like Jerry Springer talk show, is better than a BBC program about the history of 19th century literture.
Do you get my point?
I get your point and still must disagree. I think popularity IS one indication of success. Take William Shakespeare. "He was not only of an age, but for all time," meaning his theater company (The Lord Chamberlain's Men) was the most popular theater company during his time. His plays were performed in the Globe Theater (the 16th century Broadway) and in the court of the Queen Elizabeth herself. He attracted audiences from the lowest and highest strata of society, and there definintely was no shortage of Puritan critics petitioning the authorities to put a stop to his "immoral" and "licentious" (read: politically incorrect) productions. Charles ****ens is another example. He was the bestseller of the Victorian age, the Stephen King of the 19th century. His books sold very well, yet their place in the English literary canon is undisputed. Leo Tolstoy's works are no different. War and Peace was widely regarded at his time as a masterpiece, and the Russian people responded to the book like a national treasure. The reception of Anna Karenina was, if possible, even greater.
After reading it, Dostoyevsky was seen running down the steets of Moscow proclaiming Tolstoy "the god of art."
I'm willing to bet that if the music of Beethevon, Chopin, and the rest were available to the contemporary masses in the same way the Backstreet Boys and Brittany Spears works are available to us through mass media, they would indeed have been as popular. As it was, only the upper classes were able to enjoy the music of these classic artists. The majority of the populace were too busy ploughing fields and harvesting crops to worry about listening to music. Lastly, I think it is unfair to compare the record sales of classical composers with modern day pop artist. Our musical sensibilities and preferences have changed over the past 300 years. What appealed to the masses in the 17th century will not appeal to audiences in the 21st.
RE: The Internet is the root of all evil thread. I just wanted to state the fact that more deaths have occurred under Communist/Atheist regimes than under governments ruled by men with even a semblance of religiosity. Seeing that the discussion was becoming a debate for/against the existence of God, I figured Theological Quandries had already covered that topic anyway, and I had no desire to begin a parallel thread.
-
Georgi
- Posts: 11288
- Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: Can't wait to get on the road again...
- Contact:
Right. So that's why people are still listening to Bach these days. In a hundred years time, will people even remember who the Backstreet Boys were? Or even in ten years time?Originally posted by EMINEM:
<STRONG>Lastly, I think it is unfair to compare the record sales of classical composers with modern day pop artist. Our musical sensibilities and preferences have changed over the past 300 years. What appealed to the masses in the 17th century will not appeal to audiences in the 21st.</STRONG>
Who, me?!?
Hopefully they wont have a clueOriginally posted by Georgi:
<STRONG>Right. So that's why people are still listening to Bach these days. In a hundred years time, will people even remember who the Backstreet Boys were? Or even in ten years time?</STRONG>
@Eminem, do you actually answer peoples questions?
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
The thing with all these people and musicans now adays, is that their doing nothing to be remembered. The Backstreet Boys, and Eminem and all them, they'll be a thing of the past. They are a fad. If you look, the Backstreet Boys are already becoming less popular, andnit's only been two or three years. It'll be the same with Eminem because he is not doing anything that really stands out.
With his arguement about Shakespere being popular and all back then, well, he did something that stood out. He went against the norm. When everyone was writing comedies, he was writing tragedies. That is why he is remembered. It was almost a fluke that his stuff was very well written. Another reason his stuff is still done is because it is a part of history. It was some of the earliest play rights (Aside from Greek/Roman) in the English speaking world (I added Greek/Roman because we came from them when they retreat from Britain).
With Eminem, all that he's done was a few slightly humourous songs, then a wave of these violent, loud, aggressive, and abusive songs. And in a lot of them, he is going on about how life sucks, or about beating the crap out of his/someones girlfriend. Then there is the drug promoting he's done in Purple Hills. He is just like every other rapper, except he's white. That is why he is getting the attention. It's because people in general are petty and racsit, still, wheter they want to admit it or not.
With his arguement about Shakespere being popular and all back then, well, he did something that stood out. He went against the norm. When everyone was writing comedies, he was writing tragedies. That is why he is remembered. It was almost a fluke that his stuff was very well written. Another reason his stuff is still done is because it is a part of history. It was some of the earliest play rights (Aside from Greek/Roman) in the English speaking world (I added Greek/Roman because we came from them when they retreat from Britain).
With Eminem, all that he's done was a few slightly humourous songs, then a wave of these violent, loud, aggressive, and abusive songs. And in a lot of them, he is going on about how life sucks, or about beating the crap out of his/someones girlfriend. Then there is the drug promoting he's done in Purple Hills. He is just like every other rapper, except he's white. That is why he is getting the attention. It's because people in general are petty and racsit, still, wheter they want to admit it or not.
God I could do with a few M&Ms right now....
I remember seeing a cool flash rap about eminem - amd him look a real jerk - the lyrics were up to his regular standard though (ie. utter crap ) so I am no longer sure...
[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: Alexander Denethorn ]
I remember seeing a cool flash rap about eminem - amd him look a real jerk - the lyrics were up to his regular standard though (ie. utter crap
) so I am no longer sure...[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: Alexander Denethorn ]
"I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"
As far as i am concerned it is only a good thingOriginally posted by Aegis:
<STRONG>Well thank you Sleep. It's not like me to make sense, or even post relevant stuff, it's kind've new and fun for me!
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
Sorry, Sleep. I had an errand to run and just got back home.@Eminem, do you actually answer peoples questions?[/QB]
Do I listen to rap/pop?
Not really. I don't even listen to Eminem that much - I got none of his records. The only time I do so is when I'm in the car and tuned into a radio station that happens to be playing a particular song by him. I'm more into Mozart and Bach, actually, and a number of talented but largely unknown Christian artists outside the evangelical sphere of influence.