Most powerful entity in the "Multiverse"

Jean_sans_terre · Post by **Jean_sans_terre** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:36 am

I used to play a lot of pen&paper AD&D some time ago but I did not learn much about the "Multiverse" and the planes during that time.
Now that I have played through PS:T I am a bit wiser and I suddenly feel an urge to open a topic about the question who is probably the most powerful entity in the "Multiverse".

My choice: The Lady of Pain
Why:
- She is able to keep even the most powerful deities away from her "turf" (Sigil)
- She can shape planes with her power (the mazes!)
- She never talks to anyone (I don't know why but this makes her seem even more powerful in my eyes ;-) )

Your turn.

RPGeek · Post by **RPGeek** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 3:36 am

LoP is just lucky. Location, location, location.

If you have the Dungeon Master Guide, you might want to take a look at page at the Outer Planes picture. See that infinite pillar? That's the Infinite Pillar.

On top of there is Sigil. That in itself is giving the deities a hard time to get in.
There are more reasons, as well.
First off, most deities simply aren't interested in taking over Sigil. Those who are, might want to take a trip through the portals. They'll soon after find their enemies doing just the same thing; walking through the portals from their own home planes. There will be a raging battle between alot of parts then. Since most lawful planes are smaller than the chaothic (excluding Limbo, which is only one plane), the battle will be between the smaller, but more "loyal" armies and the other armies, huge lumps of Tana'ri and other guys, all bashing at each others heads (or whatever limbs available). Eventually, they'll tire of killing themselves, and go to the nearby town, which is the third reason there are so few deities who could ever take over Sigil.
[url="http://www.planescape.com/adnd/outlands/narcoss/narcoss.htm"]Narcoss, the City of The Gods.[/url]
Additionaly, there are the Spell Keys, which makes magic stronger in some Outer Planes than in other planes, and so on.

Personally, I think that if someone could unite the Abyss, which is about 76 times larger than Baator, he would be the strongest entity.

Anyway, I suppose "Galand's master", the Lord of the City of the Gods, is the strongest person already.

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: RPgeek ]

RPGeek · Post by **RPGeek** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 7:43 am

I've been waiting for AGES for someone to argue with me here. Won't anyone at least point out a mistake I've made here...please?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 7:51 am

The master of Bones in P:T is quite sight. THe lady mazes you whereas he just ends your existence

Brock Landers · Post by **Brock Landers** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 11:59 pm

Ive often thought about this as well.

Does the lady of pain even have stats?
If she does I would love to see them.

Also, didn't vacna the lich almost kill the lady of pain or something? I remeber hearing about him messin with the city.

rapier · Post by **rapier** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 8:53 pm

Originally posted by PER ASPERA AD ASTRA:
<STRONG>
Why:
- She is able to keep even the most powerful deities away from her "turf" (Sigil)
- She can shape planes with her power (the mazes!)
- She never talks to anyone (I don't know why but this makes her seem even more powerful in my eyes ;-) )
</STRONG>

1)That's more because of where Sigil lies...

2)Every god can do this...

3)Oooooookay...

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 3:46 am

For me Tharizdun edges out the Lady of Pain in sheer oomph (I debated this at length with others on the Black Isle message board). See [url="http://www.greyhawk-codex.com/codex/greyhawk/religion/tharizdunq.htm"]22 Questions on Tharizdun[/url] for more info on the big guy.

RPGeek · Post by **RPGeek** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 11:52 am

Still of no matter. Sheer strength is what matters in Narcoss.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 10:47 pm

Also, Tharizdun was concieved before all these modern D&D concepts like overpowers and Sigil and such were even a gleam in a designer's eye. I'm more inclined to side with the old school bad @ss then the come-lately Lady of Pain.

ki-master2 · Post by **ki-master2** » Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:44 am

She has no stats ,she's a power not a physical creature I think.Lol imagine urself trying to hit her with a sword

RPGeek · Post by **RPGeek** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:50 pm

Powers are powers only on the Prime Material Plane. On the Outer Planes, they are mere mortal. Strong, but mortal.

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 4:25 pm

What does the location of Sigil have anything to do with the fact that powers can't get there? If lowly humanoids can do it then I would assume powers could as well, how can mere infinity hold up against a god.

Those mazes created by the Lady of Pain are probably a lot like the mazes created by the Maze spell - a demiplane within the Ethereal Plane, only hers are permanent.

About a powerful being combining the Abyss and it's 666 layers. They changed it, it now has infinite layers.

I think the most powerful creature is either the Lady, or Io, the supreme dragon god.

TheHalflingBarb · Post by **TheHalflingBarb** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:08 pm

*bump*

a highly entertaining topic... anyone else care to continue this debate?

*warning - extreme rubbish ahead*

personally i dont see how the lady could possibly compare to Tharizdun, his simple 'waking' often creates pure havok around the multiverse....
That is quite something. Didnt it take a mass of other Gods to contain him and even then they couldnt banish him totally... like i mentioned above, occasionally he 'awakens' briefly and this mere occurance has many complications throughout the multiverse...
If such a being/entity/God was able to roam free at full power... i really dont think the lady of pain could do diddly (perhaps throw some magic missiles at him? ;P).
In fact the only way i could ever imagine taking down a God of suh power would be through an extremely powerful spell i once read about. I forget its name... but it was equivilent to level 12 or so and gave a mere mortal (albeit one with obviously extreme intelligence and power as a mage.. almost like a mortal god anyway) the ability to take the place of a God. Thinking about it though.. i dont know if it applies, because what if the God does not have a 'place' as such?
I think Fable needs to get involved in this, i always find his posts intelligent and well-informed. I on the other hand lean more towards spouting rubbish then relying on 'unconfirmed' misinformation to prove my point =\

but moving on..
In fact - there are so many incredibly powerful beings in the multiverse that i find it hard to imagine there being one definate "most supreme" one which is more powerful than the others.

hmm... i dont know what it is about topics like this - but they have always pickled my interest! When i was a child i used to dream and ask -everyone- who they thought was more powerful... Godzilla or King Kong, He-Man or etc etc.

Btw i highly doubt that Ao is the most powerful God - i have heard this argued before, but i think thats mainly because he is represented as being supreme by most FR books/games. Remember there is a _BIG_ world (? ;-]) outside of the mere lands that Ao rules over.
I would love some book to come out in the future describing in detail these questions for us... which entity is the most powerful etc. I think the multiverse is an incredible place and extremely interestign to all its fans... there are just a few holes that i want fixed.

ok now THAT was a rant. ive been at law school all week and this is the first time ive been able to think about something non generic since monday =\

Peace out y'all

p.s. Godzilla would win

Trias · Post by **Trias** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:44 pm

My fav is Lothar,maybe he's not the strongest,but he's cool!

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:31 pm

Originally posted by Trias
My fav is Lothar,maybe he's not the strongest,but he's cool!

Not sure about whether he's the strongest in the universe, but in the game, Lothar cannot be killed without cheats. I tried and tried and found out the hard way.

However, there's a thread Killed Lothar, anyone? started by yours truly where Platter found a way to kill him.

This cheat may be applied to the Lady of Pain too, but I have not tried it myself. Wouldn't want to tempt fate twice!

Cheers.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 12:13 am

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan

Not sure about whether he's the strongest in the universe, but in the game, Lothar cannot be killed without cheats. I tried and tried and found out the hard way.

However, there's a thread Killed Lothar, anyone? started by yours truly where Platter found a way to kill him.

This cheat may be applied to the Lady of Pain too, but I have not tried it myself. Wouldn't want to tempt fate twice!

Cheers.

The game conveniently made that impossible, since the only way you meet her is in cut-scene mode.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:05 am

Originally posted by Sojourner

The game conveniently made that impossible, since the only way you meet her is in cut-scene mode.

Ouch! Teaches me to remember and check things better before I shoot from the hip.