Your Votes Needed! Assassin vs. Swashbuckler vs. Bounty Hunter

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 8:27 pm

Hello everyone! I've managed to get some friends hooked on BG2

and now that they've been playing for a while we're going to try out a multi-player game, hopefully over the network at work!

The role that I've been assigned is as the party thief, which is fine by me since I've been meaning to try out a thief for a while now. I've rolled up the following possibilities to take into the game:

Grimfoot - Halfling Assassin
16 STR + Short Sword
19 DEX + Dagger
16 CON + Short Bow
16 INT + Single Weapon Style
13 WIS
10 CHA
Gawyn - Elven Swashbuckler
17 STR + Long Sword
19 DEX + Short Bow
16 CON ++ Dual Wield Style
12 INT
10 WIS
16 CHA
Ichiro - Human Bounty Hunter
18 STR + Katana
18 DEX + Scimitar/Wakizashi/Ninja-To
16 CON + Short Bow
15 INT + Single Weapon Style
10 WIS
13 CHA

All rolls add up to 90 - that was the number we agreed not to exceed. Besides, Imoen adds up to 87, so I don't feel I'm that far out of whack! Each one has their own peculiarities. The Assassin is cunning and wise but not very likeable, the Swashbuckler is a charmer, but not the brightest around, and the Bounty Hunter is a bit of both.
Here is my problem. They are all pretty cool, and each one I feel would make a great thief PC. However, I'm having problems choosing between them so here's where you come in. Please, help me out and vote for the one that you would take adventuring, and maybe state a quick reason why.
Thanks for helping,
ElvenKing

P.S. - I realize that Dual and Multi Class Thieves are incredibly powerful, but I intend to play one of the PURE Thief Kits all the way through. So please, no votes for anything that involves changing professions. Sorry for not clarifying this earlier!

EK

[ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: ElvenKing ]

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 8:34 pm

Id go for the swashbuckler as my preference in combat is melee and not backstabbing.

Huskylaw · Post by **Huskylaw** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 8:41 pm

I also vote for swashbuckler. I keep reading lots on dual classing swashbucker to cleric, but I enjoyed the swash/mage combo quite a bit. I guess the whole image of a swashbuckler as a mace wielding cleric loses me. Also, I was disappointed in bounty hunters. Yes, the traps are a godsend early on. But I got very annoyed after awhile when my special traps started to cast Maze on opponents. I hated that.

The Antichrist · Post by **The Antichrist** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 8:58 pm

swashbuckler/mage is the best combo

i soloed the first dungeon then stole heaps of scrolls from the guy in waukeens promenade
and then dualed to a mage, read all the scrolls, and leveled up to level 6 instantly =)

my friend did the same but he stole every scroll and got an instant 200K exp

Huskylaw · Post by **Huskylaw** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:08 pm

Just a thought on swash/mage ... I ignored hide in shadows and used invisibility spells instead. This allowed me to boost skills like Detect Illusion along with the standard Open Locks or Find Traps. With a high level of Detect Illusion, I never had to memorize True Sight. If an enemy disappeared via invisbility, or other illusion, all I had to do was turn on Detect Traps and the illusion was quickly removed.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

I'm a bit partial. Assassins are my favorite of the thief kits, but it depends on what you need. Clearly, assassins are the killers, so if you want the thief to backstab, go with assassin; they are the snipers. None of the kits are great at melee, but swashbuckler is the best of the three. Bounty hunters require patience and coordination and are difficult to use well in multiplayer games.

However, what does the party want? Do they expect you to be a lockpicking, trap finding machine? Assassins get low thief skills and need stealth early, so often aren't the best at locks and traps. Bounty hunters are limited, but better than assassins.

Do they expect you to backstab, taking at least one foe out of the game before the fight even starts? Swashbucklers can't do this at all. Assassins rule, here.

Maybe a true thief, no kit, is the best solution. That is..., if you don't go for the assassin.

moriveth · Post by **moriveth** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 10:06 pm

If you go for an assassin, why don't you put two of those intelligence or wisdom points in strength to bring it up to 18? The idea is to do as much damage as you can in one hit, after all...Also, I'm not sure the daggers in the game are very good. Can always get long swords or something else with the proficiency point.

I agree Rail with that if you're going to be the only thief in the party, you might want to go pure thief.

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 10:31 pm

@ Rail - Basically each of us are left to choosing exactly which kit to take. We all drew a PC class to play, after that it is up to the person playing that character which kit, proficiencies, spells, etc. they want to use. I drew the role of party thief; what kind of thief is left to my discretion.

@ moriveth - The reason I left the Assassin STR at 16 is strictly a roleplay decision. I didn't want a super strong Halfling; it just does not feel right. Actually for each of the characters I rolled I feel the STR ratings accurately reflect a racial trait; the Human is the strongest, the Elf is in between and the Halfling weakest. The proficiency point is also subjective - I just can't see a Halfling weilding a Katana or Long Sword. It would be as big as he is!!!
Actually, now that I think of it, isn't the Sling more a Halfling weapon than the Short Bow? An Assassin with a Sling? I can just see it now...

@ Huskylaw - I agree that the Swash/Mage is pretty incredible, but I'm gonna keep this one pure - no dualling. However, I never knew Detect Illusions was that good! How many points do you drop in for it to become an effective skill? Thanks for bringing this up.

[ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: ElvenKing ]

Huskylaw · Post by **Huskylaw** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 10:54 pm

Unfortunately I can't answer what level is became effective. This is because I boosted it to 80-100 fairly early. Of course it took me awhile to realize I had to click on the Find Traps button to get it to work. Since you're going to go with a pure thief you'll probably want to boost this after you get a comfortable level in other skills.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 10:59 pm

@ElvenKing- frankly I'm a bit jealous. I wish I had that kind of time and those kind of friends to undertake adventuring.

I really like your views on roleplaying your characters. I can't picture halflings using longswords any better than I can dwarves using halberds. Yes, it works in the game, but would it really? I think the characters are interesting the way they are, and yes, detect illusion really IS that good. Very valueable later in the game.

I still think you might be better off as a true thief. You'll get great thieve's skills and still have a good backstab. Stick mostly with distance weapons in combat if you aren't backstabbing. Keep in mind, if you're close to a corner, you can run out of sight, hide in shadows, run back to the fight and backstab again, if needed.

If not the true thief, I still vote for the assassin. Great fun playing hit and run. Are you taking any NPCs, like Imoen?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Apr 30, 2001 12:34 am

I have played many games as a thief and I would have to say that my favourite was as a halfling swashbuckler so I would go for the elven swashbuckler. I would consider ending up with ** in scimitar ** in short sword and *** in dual wield. This is so you can use belm and kundane and get 4 attacks per round. Detect illusion is a must, it is like having endless true sights. You should have around 100, as a pure swashbuckler you have the points to spare.
I would also like to say that I found the special traps of the bountyhunter to be extremely powerful. You can set them from a distance (kinda like a fireball). I found maze to be very useful. You can maze almost any enemy which means you can take them down one at a time. If you maze two or more than as they normally have different intelligence they come back at different times.
However this playing style may not suit you. Go for swashbuckler and you'll have a great thief aswell as a tank.

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Mon Apr 30, 2001 3:06 am

my vote goes to the assassin, i played the game with a assassin and it was fun.
i really love backstab. .
The assassin gets *7 backstab multiplier and posion.
I had my assassin weilding The Daystar and the Celestial Fury.
those 2 combiened was an awfull high amount of damage usually around 60/70 and if that didn't kill the enemy the posion did.

The bounty hunter is also a good char, that special trap i very good, but it is his only
special move.

The swashbuckler is good because u get better weapon professions so he should be a better tank then the assassin.
But he can't backstab and i like the sneaky part of being a thief and back stabing is a great part in that.

]RiPPeR[ · Post by **]RiPPeR[** » Mon Apr 30, 2001 5:08 am

60-70?? even my level 21 monk cant deal that much of damage unless with a critical
my vote goes for the assassin

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Mon Apr 30, 2001 1:32 pm

@Elvenking: My vote goes for the assassin. I would boost the strength to 17 (racial max), however, to get an extra +1 to hit, then later get him one of those strength girdles. You can get away with setting Lock-picking and Trap-finding to about 85 for a while, while boosting stealth skills to over 100 with items and level-ups. Then you have to decide what skill you want to work on next: Trap-setting or Detect Illusion. Detect Illusion starts becoming effective at 90, but it takes a long time to reach that, esp. in a group. Trap-setting is a very effective way to deal with golems from level 12 on, and there are items in the game that will boost it: Mercykiller ring and potion of Mind-Focusing (lasts for 12 hours and you get the skill bonus from +3 DEX).

I prefered equipping my halfling assassin with the shortsword - I couldn't see him using a Katanna, and long swords don't have a low enough speed factor. (I've found the lower the speed factor, the better the chances were for a successful backstab.)