Thus if lv21 wizard slayer can dual to thief and gain 'use any item' ability, he will be deadly against most spell casters, dragons, ravager and *ahem* the final boss
Of course it won't tank as hard as kensai/thief, but I recon it could be fun Wouldn't it be cool to dual from lv21 wizard slayer to thief?
Wouldn't it be cool to dual from lv21 wizard slayer to thief?
Wizard slayer causes 10% chance of spell casting failure on each hit, which is cumulative. Thus at lv21, wizard slayer will have one whirlwind and one greater whirlwind abilities and what it basically means is that wizard slayer can cause 100% chance of spell failure in one round. And it sounds wonderful against dragons since most of them can cast 'heal' which is quite annoying.
Thus if lv21 wizard slayer can dual to thief and gain 'use any item' ability, he will be deadly against most spell casters, dragons, ravager and *ahem* the final boss Of course it won't tank as hard as kensai/thief, but I recon it could be fun
Thus if lv21 wizard slayer can dual to thief and gain 'use any item' ability, he will be deadly against most spell casters, dragons, ravager and *ahem* the final boss
Of course it won't tank as hard as kensai/thief, but I recon it could be fun While I admit that he may be a good character I just don't see the advantages of being either a kensai/thief or a wizardslayer/thief over a multiclass fighter/thief. You get more abilities and you get them early and you get from both classes. There is no end to the possibilties of this truly great character.
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Yep. A wonderful character indeed. Combine that with The Answerer in your main hand Spectral Brand in your off hand, dragons beware. Make sure you have a mage take out stoneskins, etc. Use armor piercing from your scimitar a round before your assault, and move in. Now you are ready for GWW, and rain hell upon the beast. The dragon feels the burn of 100% casting failure AND -150% magic resistance. Powerful.
The argument for wizard slayer/kensai thiefs over multiclass is simple. The kit bonuses. For a wizard slayer, see the scenario above. Combined with WWs and improved haste, WSs can shut down enemy spell casters like no other class. Magic resistance bonuses take you to 21% or 42% (I've read both 1% and 2% per level), which is nice. Use any item, Purifier or Carsomyr, for and added boost, when you are not bringing down magic resistance.
For the kensai/thief backstabing is the strong suit. Dualed at lvl21, this theif gets the bonuses of +7 hit/dammage and 6 kai shots. +7 to dammage equates to +35 to backstab. Kai equates to +0-45 (for a katana) per backstab. To make the most out of these abilities:
(hidden in shadows)
1st turn: Kai shot, Kai backstab + 2 or 3 Kai normal attacks
2nd turn: Assasinate, 1 or 2 Kai backstabs + 1 or 2 normal backstabs.
Everything x2 if you add improved haste
This brings down spell casters pretty well too...
The multiclass thief gets the advantage of more abilities. Either of the dual classes get 2 fighter abilities and about 10 thief abilities, where as a multiclass gets much more- especially from the fighter pool. This is an advantage, but it really changes the character of the class. Both duals take their fighting power from backstabs and should spend points on assinates, where a multiclass may load up on GWWs and traps instead. A multiclass will also have the added benifit of hardiness, but if your thiefs stay hidden in shadows like mine do, they don't take dammage until they backstab someone, and then they have the upper hand in the fight as well.
The argument for wizard slayer/kensai thiefs over multiclass is simple. The kit bonuses. For a wizard slayer, see the scenario above. Combined with WWs and improved haste, WSs can shut down enemy spell casters like no other class. Magic resistance bonuses take you to 21% or 42% (I've read both 1% and 2% per level), which is nice. Use any item, Purifier or Carsomyr, for and added boost, when you are not bringing down magic resistance.
For the kensai/thief backstabing is the strong suit. Dualed at lvl21, this theif gets the bonuses of +7 hit/dammage and 6 kai shots. +7 to dammage equates to +35 to backstab. Kai equates to +0-45 (for a katana) per backstab. To make the most out of these abilities:
(hidden in shadows)
1st turn: Kai shot, Kai backstab + 2 or 3 Kai normal attacks
2nd turn: Assasinate, 1 or 2 Kai backstabs + 1 or 2 normal backstabs.
Everything x2 if you add improved haste
This brings down spell casters pretty well too...
The multiclass thief gets the advantage of more abilities. Either of the dual classes get 2 fighter abilities and about 10 thief abilities, where as a multiclass gets much more- especially from the fighter pool. This is an advantage, but it really changes the character of the class. Both duals take their fighting power from backstabs and should spend points on assinates, where a multiclass may load up on GWWs and traps instead. A multiclass will also have the added benifit of hardiness, but if your thiefs stay hidden in shadows like mine do, they don't take dammage until they backstab someone, and then they have the upper hand in the fight as well.
I see your point but it is a very long wait for that first ability and to not be able to wear armour(kensai) or rings etc(ws) for that long hurts. My halfling fighter/thief does insane amount of damage already with staff of the ram. It doesn't really matter if you do 150 or 200. As for magic resistance, human skin, ring of gaxx, award in hell, amulet of the seldarine, purifier, deck of many things, machine of Lum the mad. That is 90% right there (100 if pickpocket kangaxx)so you can get pretty high with a normal fighter/thief aswell.
So I would still go for a multiclass but that's just my opinion.
So I would still go for a multiclass but that's just my opinion.
You can't handle the truth!
Wouldn't character heal from magic spell damage if his/her MR is over 100%? I've tried it with my PC with over 100% magical fire resistance (hint: red dragon scale+spell) and fireball cast on him actually healed my character! Thus WS/thief will have base MR of 40% and MR can easily go over 100% with ring of gaxx (x2 if you pickpocket twice) and other items (so say hello to horrid wilting since it will heal my PC ). However, it is valid that multiclass fighter/thief will get more abilities. Dual-classing has lost its main advantage (grand-mastery) when Bioware decided that true AD&D grand mastery would be too powerful...
By the way, just one more thought: if WS/thief causes 100% spell failure, will imprisoned one/final boss be able to summon their minions? I'm trying WS/thief over this holiday and will find it out
). However, it is valid that multiclass fighter/thief will get more abilities. Dual-classing has lost its main advantage (grand-mastery) when Bioware decided that true AD&D grand mastery would be too powerful...By the way, just one more thought: if WS/thief causes 100% spell failure, will imprisoned one/final boss be able to summon their minions? I'm trying WS/thief over this holiday and will find it out
Magic resistance works differently than any other resistance. Meaning that if a spell fails its test for penetreting your MR it wont do anything. With other resistances it does a percentage of the normal damage. A percentage over 100 means negative damage which is the same as healing.
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I think that both the dual to thief and the multiclass are great. Wiz slyr/thief and Kensai/thief have both been mentioned, but there is also Berserker/thief which is very nice as well.
I don't know if the bosses in TOB would be effected by the spell casting failure attack of the wiz slay because I have read that they "force" their spells - for instance you cannot interrupt their spellcasting. If anyone wishes to test this out....
Greater WW with the Answerer is definitely a great tactic - why have your mages cast lower resistance once you have this sword?
I have been playing a half-orc fighter/thief multiclass and he has really held his own in TOB. For most of the big battles he wears Gronmir's +2 full plate and uses assassinate ability or potions or other abilities to get invisible backstabs in. I don't really like to use traps so I have taken all abilities in assassinate, greater ww, and hardiness (of course use any item was first - I cast find familiar from a scroll and got 24 extra hp - sweet!) A lot of the bosses you would most like to backstab in TOB are unfortunately immune, most of the people that you can backstab you don't need any extra damage on, they go down just fine
I don't know if the bosses in TOB would be effected by the spell casting failure attack of the wiz slay because I have read that they "force" their spells - for instance you cannot interrupt their spellcasting. If anyone wishes to test this out....
Greater WW with the Answerer is definitely a great tactic - why have your mages cast lower resistance once you have this sword?
I have been playing a half-orc fighter/thief multiclass and he has really held his own in TOB. For most of the big battles he wears Gronmir's +2 full plate and uses assassinate ability or potions or other abilities to get invisible backstabs in. I don't really like to use traps so I have taken all abilities in assassinate, greater ww, and hardiness (of course use any item was first - I cast find familiar from a scroll and got 24 extra hp - sweet!) A lot of the bosses you would most like to backstab in TOB are unfortunately immune, most of the people that you can backstab you don't need any extra damage on, they go down just fine
May you walk on warrrrm sannd....
I think WS/T and K/T are mentioned over the bezerker/thief because they have better abilities. Huge +hit/dammage or +MR and spell failure is arguably better in most curcumstances (exception: when people imprison you). These advantages are ballanced when the K and WS can't use many times. Thats why they dual to a thief. As a bezerker kit, why not dual to a cleric to gain cool spells and turn undead.
In rebutal against a multi/class using cool items to get amazing MR, the dual WS/T can do it with one item (Carsomyr or Purifier) leaving other items and bonuses to help party members. If you are soloing, this doesn't matter, but who solos with any fighter thief combo. Very true the long dualing time is very painful. Ouch. A level one thief running around the end of SoA...
On a side note. I use cheese every chance I get to equip my characters with equipment and experience. For example, pickpocketing Gaxx and unlimited experience from the tanner. I live for the back and forth explosions everywhere fights, so I don't use fighting cheese (traps, some mage combos, backstabbing with staves?). Does anyone else feel this way?
In rebutal against a multi/class using cool items to get amazing MR, the dual WS/T can do it with one item (Carsomyr or Purifier) leaving other items and bonuses to help party members. If you are soloing, this doesn't matter, but who solos with any fighter thief combo. Very true the long dualing time is very painful. Ouch. A level one thief running around the end of SoA...
On a side note. I use cheese every chance I get to equip my characters with equipment and experience. For example, pickpocketing Gaxx and unlimited experience from the tanner. I live for the back and forth explosions everywhere fights, so I don't use fighting cheese (traps, some mage combos, backstabbing with staves?). Does anyone else feel this way?