Level 9 spells

[tahuti]

Which lvl 9 spells are the most useful for a sorceror? I mean the real spells, not the 'high level combat' spells.

- Shapeshift: seems ok, stunning with mind flayer, killing with iron golem, regenerating with greater werewolf.
- Wail of the banshee: the enemies at that time when its achieved throws their save against is, so i dont see it too useful.
- Power word, kill: like above, just those enemies have more HP than it would be effective.
- Meteor shower: hits party members too, and the target enemies doesnt wait till they die, and run over the party, so either they avoid the spell effect area, or it must be cast on the party too.
- Black blade of disaster: too high THAC0 a mage has, rarely hits. If it had a THAC0 bonus, maybe it would be effective.
- Energy drain: 2 levels stolen from a high level enemy is nothing. Its the most useless lvl9 spell.

So what you found useful?

[Bruce Lee]

I like timestop, chain contingency and imprisonment.

[theone]

with imprisionment, when you cast that on your enemy do you still get cp for killing it and do you still get the equipment?

i don't think so, so i think it is not really worth using it. unless you use it against a very hard mage and then kill everyone else he is with and then free the mage and deal with him by himself.

[The fallen one]

Well the spell that I used the most would have to be time stop.
But what about the spells like Spell strike, Spell trap, and Absolute Immunity. How many of you used these spells. Looking at them on paper they do look good. Well maybe absolute immunity not so good to short.
And gate could always be fun when fighting a large group of goblins

[Kovi]

I agree on timestop, chain cont. and imprisonment. Shapechange is also nice, especially because of the mind flyer int drains. But you can only choose three...

If you want to get the items/xp, it is better not to use imprisonment on real bosses (anyway most of them are immune), only on some of the tough, magic resistant monsters.

[Luther]

Yeah, I think it's weak that you don't get XP for imprisonment. It makes it worthless for characters. I think it's one of those spells that's in the game just for an enemy to use. It can also provide a good story arc like the mage in the underdark.

unless you use it against a very hard mage and then kill everyone else he is with and then free the mage and deal with him by himself.

This would be fun tactic when you're looking for something new, but not too practical. It's not worth it to waste a slot on freedom.

-Luther-

[Quitch]

Black Blade of Disastor might be nice if combined with Tensers Transformation. I've never tried it though.

Time Stop and Chain COntingency are the best spells at level 9.

Imprisonment is a nice way to allow yourself to plan for a fight with one less enemy in mind. Not exactly a "must have" though.

Energy Drain, LOL, what a waste of time

[Xyx]

Those are the (Un)Holy Three, IMO.

Chain Contingency is front-loaded with cheese (cast as if you had Improved Alacrity).

I believe you did get XP for Imprisoning stuff. Casting that and Freedom over and over again even gets you XP each and ever time.

[Nightmare]

Level 9 spells:

Time Stop (must have)
Chain Contingency (must have)
Imprisonment (have for cheesy kills, though it is unbalanced)
Spellstrike (a Breach and a Ruby Ray is almost as good)
Spell Trap (if you don't have Staff of the Magi)
Wail of the Banshee (good if you have a habit of casting Greater Malison/Doom)
Absolute Immunity (bad length, Stoneskin is better)
Power Word Kill (no)
Meteor shower (good for solo, bad for parties)
Shapeshift (nah)
Energy Drain (this is a level 9 spell?! )
Black Blade of Disaster (no)
Wish (optional, but can be quite useful. Much more useful in PnP)
Gate (alright, but not the greatest summon)

EDIT: Forgot Gate.

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Gaxx_Firkraag ]

[Bobsy]

The black blade of disaster is really handy for fighter-mages and thief-mages. Remember, when they were originally implemented it was pretty much impossible for them to be memorised, so a mage of any level could effectively use level 9 spells. Backstabbing with a black blade is... fun...

Oh, and you're all being a /little/ harsh on energy drain. Against mages it can instantly neutralise their top spells. Shame it's only two levels though. Nevertheless, I still use Gram the Sword of Grief (crap name though) because of its level drain on successful hits.

Oh, and spellstrike is bloody excellent for when mages buff themselves up with a chain contingency. As for chain contingency, however good it may be for solo mages or small parties, a larger party means that your mages rarely need to buff themselves anyway.

[Luther]

Wish (optional, but can be quite useful. Much more useful in PnP)

what's up with the Wish spell anyway? It seems like it's only good for some fast combat effects, and none are even really that good. Improved haste on everybody, slow on all enemies, etc. The best effect I saw was 25 in all stats for all party members, but even then it only lasts 4 rounds.

I thought Wish spells could give you permanent stat increases and other really cool things. In BGII it's only good for combat and even then it's not too practical to negotiate with a genie in the heat of a battle. At least with limited wish you could get some items or that quest. I'm thinking limited wish was more fun.

Thoughts?

-Luther-

[Silvanerian]

In AD&D casting a wish spell costs the mage to age 5 years.
And I think he loses 1 point in constitution also (not 100% sure about this).
Some might say: "Well, who cares? Just wish for you to be 10 years younger and get 2 points in con" - but there're a lot of danger in wishing stuff like that.
10 years younger could mean that you're teleported back to the time you actually were 10 years younger, not even knowing the spell by then, ect ect.
Also, only mages with 18 int could cast level 9 spells.
And no, potions of genius don't help. Well, maybe they would, but then you'd have to drink one every time you wanted memorize AND cast a level 9 spell.

About the level 9 spells: I think some might the a bit overlooked because of all the way-too-powerful weapons. Who would want to cast Energy Drain if a fighter with a special sword has the same effect (if not better!).

About the imprisonment and XP: I thought you got xp for imprisoning enemies. I've heard some cheesy "tactics" to gain unlimmited XP for imprisoning/Freeing Dragons. But maybe it's changes in ToB.
I do know, however, that turning your enemies to stone does give you XP, so why shouldn't imprisoning them do?

-Sylvanerian

[tahuti]

Originally posted by The fallen one:
<STRONG>Well the spell that I used the most would have to be time stop.
But what about the spells like Spell strike, Spell trap, and Absolute Immunity. How many of you used these spells. Looking at them on paper they do look good. Well maybe absolute immunity not so good to short.
And gate could always be fun when fighting a large group of goblins </STRONG>

Spell strike seems less useful, ruby ray can remove lvl9 spell protections (spell trap) too, and usually a mage has 1 or 2 spell prot at a same time, so neednt spell strike. (Remember, i playe sorcerer, which cant learn all spells, so i must choose only the best of them.) Spell trap can be achieved from the staff of magi, which is used anyway (is ther some1 not using it? ).

[tahuti]

Originally posted by Luther the Hard:
<STRONG>what's up with the Wish spell anyway? It seems like it's only good for some fast combat effects, and none are even really that good. Improved haste on everybody, slow on all enemies, etc. The best effect I saw was 25 in all stats for all party members, but even then it only lasts 4 rounds.

I thought Wish spells could give you permanent stat increases and other really cool things. In BGII it's only good for combat and even then it's not too practical to negotiate with a genie in the heat of a battle. At least with limited wish you could get some items or that quest. I'm thinking limited wish was more fun.

Thoughts?

-Luther-</STRONG>

I think limited wish is much better. You can heal with your mage, useful when soloing. And you get always the same thing, and can choose from all options, not just a random selection as in wish. Anyway, i didnt see really useful things in wish, maybe the double time stop, but the only bad side of it, that you cant get it for sure, just if the genie offers it, and its really random.

[Kovi]

Originally posted by Tahuti:
<STRONG>Spell trap can be achieved from the staff of magi, which is used anyway (is ther some1 not using it? ).</STRONG>

Well, my solo sorceress had no items at all.
But I still haven't used spell traps.

Anyway I forgot to mention Wish. It was my first spell choice of the 9th level. The rest option (especially in combo with Project Image) is so tempting, even though I never really needed that (neither the Pocket Plane:rest).
But without items, the stat boost is important (eg. to open Fire giants door). And as I remember there were some others with interesting "side-effects" (map spells to "detect"/weaken enemies).
The double-length timestop + improved alacrity also seemed interesting, especially as the original game incorrectly set the casting speed to 0 instead of the alacrity (very useful if someone doesn't have Vecna). But I have played with the Baldurdash patch (no 0 casting), and generally I haven't used Wish in combat because of the mentioned luck factor.

[Kovi]

double post.

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]

[Kovi]

Triple post.
But to add something (offtopic): limited wish (as one of the best multi-purpose spell) is really good choice for a sorcerer.

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]

[Nightmare]

Limited wish is good for the bunny horde. Cast in the middle of enemies (or a dragon), back off, and cast spells and arrows at them while they try to kill the bunnies. Too bad the bunnies aren't like the one from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...

[Morlock]

Time Stop (if you have other spells to back it up)
But by the time I got to lvl. 9 spells I only had a couple of level ups till lvl. 10 spells!

[Xyx]

Originally posted by Bobsy:
<STRONG>Oh, and you're all being a /little/ harsh on energy drain. Against mages it can instantly neutralise their top spells.</STRONG>

Harsh!?

This spell hampers enemy Mages (the effect on other creatures is hardly noticeable), but still does not make them harmless.

Compare this spell to:

• Imprisonment: Need I say more? It even bypasses magic resistance.
• Power Word Blind: Also neutralizes the top spells - and the rest along with it!
• Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting: Disrupts spells and blasts through all that Spell Trap cr@p.
• Time Stop: Just throw Melf's Minute Meteors for three rounds and you have a dead Mage.

That's only a few, and some are not even level 9! Moreover, all these spells have great uses besides dealing with Mages.