Cleric/Mage multis- are they worth it?

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Oct 18, 2001 11:05 pm

For anyone who's playing or has played through SoA and ToB with a Cleric/Mage, what did you think of them? Are they really "The ultimate spellcasters" without the XP cap?

I'd be really interested in hearing peoples opinions as I'm considering making my next character a cleric/mage.

Also, is it better to go as a half-elf cleric/straight mage or a gnomish illusionist/cleric?

Thanks for any advice.

prime_dweller · Post by **prime_dweller** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 4:24 am

Cleric/Mage multi is an interesting class, especially because they can put cleric spells in contingencies. Also, since the highest priest spells are level 7, and you can place spells of up to level 8 in a chain contingency ...

For example, sequencer 3 dooms, chain contingency 3 implosions, 3 storms of vengeance, etc.

The Robe of Vecna speeds up your spellcasting, even the cleric side.

You weapon selection is also good: you can use Mace of Disruption, Flail of the Ages, Crom Faeyr, Runehammer, Club of Detonation or any other blunt weapon. I would use Staff of the Magi and FoA in the quick slots, switching to Mace of Disruption/Runehammer for undead.

This character is the ultimate Kangaxx killer: Spell Immunity Abjuration, Death Ward, hit with Mace of Disruption 2 or 3 times - dead Demi-Lich.

You can make yourself immune to anything:
- Mind affecting spells: Chaotic Commands.
- Mind Flayer Int drain: Prot. from Magical Weapons.
- Vorpal weapons, monk's quivering palm, Howl of the Demi-lich: Death Ward.
- Physical damage: 4 x Armor of Faith, Prot. from Magical Weapons.
- Damage spells: Prot. from (Magical)Energy, Cloak of Mirroring.

Finally, decide whether or not to be Evil. It's much more practical to explode undead than to control them ... but perhaps less satisfying.

With the 8M xp cap, you can reach level 20 as a mage, which only allows 2 level 9 slots (3 for the illusionist/cleric).

If you decide to download the "ToB safe" cap remover from Baldurdash, you can reach levels 40/40, turning you into the "ultimate" spellcaster.

I wouldn't go with the gnome illusionist/cleric, because gnomes get a penalty to Wisdom, which hurts the cleric side, and more importantly, they can't cast Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, which is ... horrid.

As for roleplaying a Cleric/Mage, I think the most interesting example is the True Necromancer prestige class in 3E.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 7:51 am

prime dweller pretty much says it all. It's a great class combo to play. Have you ever used aerie. IMHO, she's the best NPC because she is useful in every situation.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:31 am

Yes, the Cleric/Mage multi is the ultimate spellcasting class. Actually in the end it became one of the best overall classes, almost as powerful as the sorcerer.
I would recommend the Illusionist/Cleric especially for solo. In my opinion the additional mage slots worth the loose of the bonus priest slot and the necromancy mage spells.
The cleric part can still cast necromancy spells and you can even cast mage spells from scrolls. Holy Smite can be better than Skull Trap. Animate Dead is cheaper to cast from the cleric part. Death Fog can be used instead of Death Spell (against Nishruus). The effectiveness of Abi Dalzim is really a miss, but there are so many ways to deal with the enemy.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:18 am

I loved my elven cleric/mage. Great spellcaster, with good AC cause you can use a shield. and when he was wielding FoA or CF he even wasn't that bad of a tank.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:53 am

Many thanks for all the advice. Probably go Neutral Evil to keep Blackrazor without repercussions and for the Turn Paladin ability (Order of the Radiant Heart watch out! Heh heh).

Stilgar, how did you get an elven mage/cleric? I thought only half-elves and gnomes could be mage/clerics. Which leaves the question of Aerie unanswered, now I think about it.

Thehalfelf · Post by **Thehalfelf** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 7:36 am

I understand that the Cleric/Illusionist really rocks, but is it better than the Kensai/Mage. Is sorcherer the best class in the game? Just curious!!

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:24 pm

Matter of taste, though Kensai/Mage will be much easier to use effectively.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 1:10 pm

As Xyx notes. A kensai/mage is effective almost from the start because of the fighter side. As soon as you get the mage to the level that permits both professions to work, you're doing well. But as soon as you get the mage and clerical side working in that combination, you still have a long, steady hill to climb. And you can't use good armor, either, which is one of the benefits of the cleric.

MindShadow · Post by **MindShadow** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:08 pm

For me Multiclass cleric/mages are great because they are balance between offense and defense. think about it , you have a character that can heal others as well as dish out damage using magic. plus a cleric/ mage has more hit points that either class alone( at least I think)and with access to spells like tenser's transformation and Righteous Magic it is possible for your C/M to become a formidable fighter. all in all it depends upon your personal prefrences. go with what feels right.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 5:17 pm

Any healing Clerics do, with the possible exception of Greater Restoration, is made totally redundant by any fool with a Rod of Resurrection and a purse full of gold.

Cleric/Mages on Tenser's suffer from a lack of attacks per round. You'd have to dual-wield and use Improved Haste to get near the level of warriors.

MindShadow · Post by **MindShadow** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 12:31 pm

I see your point about using tenser's Xyx, but you've got to admit that free healing isnt all that bad,especaly if you dont't have enough gold.

Oops I almost forgot to ask you which do you think is better, multi or dual class Cleric/ mages?

DraySkullan · Post by **DraySkullan** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 1:55 pm

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper:
Probably go Neutral Evil to keep Blackrazor without repercussions

Out of curiosity, what reprecussions are there? I didn't know there were. I've been weilding it with my CN swashbuckler, and havent noticed any.

General · Post by **General** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:34 pm

Originally posted by DraySkullan:
Out of curiosity, what reprecussions are there? I didn't know there were. I've been weilding it with my CN swashbuckler, and havent noticed any.

I think he means so you don't have to worry about the alignment change for being evil in hell

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:41 pm

Originally posted by MindShadow:
which do you think is better, multi or dual class Cleric/ mages?

I'd say the dual in SoA, but the multi in ToB.