Dual, 2 hand or sword wirh shield

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 12:47 pm

And they were costom items

he he he he he he he he he he he he he he

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 4:03 pm

Originally posted by sigurd:
<STRONG>I cant see any shield making up for this.. AC is extremely low anyway... And magic is the mayor problem, not normal attacks</STRONG>

exactly. the shields are pretty good, but they don't have really uber abilities.

i do like to use a shield now and again, once the char is reduced to 30% (aprox) hit points, then i switch to whirlwinds.

too many nifty one handed weapons, the two handers sometimes don't even seem to match up. (possible exception for carsomyr, ravager, staff of ram)

pomr · Post by **pomr** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 5:17 pm

Shield of Harmony /is/ darn nice though. Really helpful to not be subject to domination, charm, confusion and so on.

In response to a Kensai - it is pretty cool not to dual class them. By the end of my last game my guy had a natual STR of 24, used 2H weapons exclusively (Ravager!), and had a -29 THAC0 -- he didn't miss much that I noticed.

Char_Aznable · Post by **Char_Aznable** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 10:46 pm

I personally dun believe in having too much AC. My Monk has an AC of -19 and still get hit more often then I would like. I believe in investing in THAC0 and finishing the fight faster is the way to go.

1 Thing I'm not sure about is when using whirlwind. does the dual still have that extra attack or is it rendered useless???

Absolute · Post by **Absolute** » Mon Dec 31, 2001 12:12 am

I believe its rendered useless

two · Post by **two** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:28 pm

Originally posted by Absolute:
<STRONG>

Finally I think that dual wielding is grossly overrated. It is never worth missing out on the defensive benefits of the various excellent sheilds available, for a single attack per round at +2 Thac0.

Dual wielding only makes sense for kensais especially when they use the kai ability, however I think that the method mentioned above is superior - Give a kensai Boots of Speed & just sit back and watch.</STRONG>

As others have mentioned, this ignores a few insanely powerful dual-wield combinations.

These include the infamous "adds to attack number per round" weapons, such as Kundane, Belm, or Scarlet Ninja_to. These weapons in the off-hand add an extra attack to the non-off-hand (would that be primary?) attack. So put these off hand, and you get an extra primary AND off-hand attack (2 attacks). If you have CromF in your primary hand, the huge strength bonus means you will almost always hit with all attacks and do sick damage all around.

In general, is it better to kill an opponent quickly, or let him live a round or two and hope your AC is low enough so that it/he/she misses? With an extra attack or two, and slow/stun abilities from Cfury and/or FOAges, it's almost always the case that you kill/disable your opponent BEFORE they can do damage.

I've played both (dual-wield and shield w/high AC) and honestly, I found dual-wield got me hit LESS often because the battles were over just so darn quick. And sometimes, vs. mages and the like, an extra attack or two with elemental damage or special effects makes the difference between a maze spell coming at you (a shield does not help against this) and watching contingencies going off all over the body newly fallen at your feet.

If you doubt, just dual-wield Korgan with whatever nasty weapons you can think of. Even if you don't give him the ubers (Crom, FOA) he's just so much more effective then S&Shield it's not funny. In fact, Korgan is really overpowered in SOA if you dual-wield him with axes. I think.

Lykwid · Post by **Lykwid** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 3:16 pm

After playing through this game at least 10 times , as alot of us have im sure, i would say the most destructive character i had was useing the ravager +6 . The no save decapitation was absolutely awesome. I also put the gloves of extra ordinary skill on him , so he had 3 attacks per round. He mowed through enemies quite a bit faster than my duel weilding warrior (flail/cromfear). I also found it very handy to be able to switch to the bow and other 2handed weapons so easily. Add in the extra criticals , and he was the man. Just my two cents on the issue.

-Lykwid

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 2:37 am

In SoA dual-wielding was the way to go but in ToB with whirlwinds it is more even IMO. For the ordinary battles it doesn't matter what weapon you are using, you win anyway. For the big battles you use your abilities and then the twohanders are slightly better, do not underestimate the greater reach.
Give the shield to your single classed cleric.

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:18 pm

I'm quite a fan of single weapons style. It really comes into its own when you're switching between a sword and a bow.

Snipercon · Post by **Snipercon** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:37 am

I think dual weilding is very balanced and legitimate as a roleplaying weapon style.

a) You can never hit as well as you could with your normal hand. -2off for experts and -2on -6off for the vast majority of classes.

b) It takes an extra point of skill to be an expert at dual wielding compared to other fighting styles.

c) You only get one attack with your off hand, which means fighters only use their second weapon for a convienient quick strike amidst a flury of normal attacks with their normal hand. For rogues this is a better bonus since they use their primary weapon for quick strikes as it is. Now they get two quick strikes.

Its very true that you get the full magical bonuses from the second weapon, and this is very benificial. The argument against dual weilding is that its unrealistic to use with skill. Absolutley true, but you only use the second weapon with limited skill (and even then after practicing 50% more). The only time you get significant combat usage out of your off hand weapon is with Belm, Kundane or Scarlet Ninja To which give extra attacks. Even then, are those attacks applied to your main hand?

My second weapons of choice are, Crom Faeyr, Angurvadal, and Spectral Brand. I like the strength bonuses and immunity to level drain.

redscull · Post by **redscull** » Wed Jan 23, 2002 1:32 pm

Attacks

I have a question relating to the dual weilding attacks. What's the most you can get using equipment in ToB? And I don't mean theoretical/calculated, I mean, what's the most you've seen on a character you had. I consider using the CluaConsole cheat for exp/in-game items as valid. Hacked/custom items would not be a valid example.

I have not managed to make a char get more than 4 attacks no matter what equipment I give him. Or at least, the char sheet never says higher than 4. I haven't counted the attacks to see if it's more in actual combat.

And whirlwind does not count either. I know that gives a temporary 10...

Thanks for the info!

Red

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:52 am

No answers?

redscull,

I seem to remember that someone did tests on all weapon combos a while back, and as part of all that it was determined that the way the game clock handles some weapons is not particularily consistent (which may make it difficult to ever come up with a definitive answer to your question).

The lack of response may also be due to posing a question well into a post which is really discussing something else.

This reply will buimp the thread but if you really have to know start a new one just for this question. - Curdis !