Sorc/Mage Help Wanted

Chips_40285 · Post by **Chips_40285** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:14 pm

Just some questions:
1. is a mage or sorc better (spell variety and memorization wise)?
2. specialist mage advantages worth it?
3. What are some good spells (especially needed for sorc)
4. do MR monsters in ToB make magic less of an offensive force and more defense-oriented?

Thanks!

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:30 pm

1. wild mage and sorcerer are the best
2. yes (with the exeption of an enchancter, transmuter or diviner)
3. it depends on whether you play solo or party, especially for the sorcerer. the following protection are very important in any case: mirror image, stoneskin, protection from magical weapons, spell immunity.
4. no, casters in ToB should be even more offensive, there are spells which lower the resistance and others, which ignore it.

Chips_40285 · Post by **Chips_40285** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:40 pm

To clear things up on what spells are best, i do plan to use a party. i hope that helps

Tirinal · Post by **Tirinal** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:56 pm

I personally prefer any type of mage over a sorceror. You gain a lot more exp thorugh scribing scrolls, are more versatile, and can take advantage of all the +1 memorization slot for whatever spell level items. Also, it means you don't have 4-5 rows of spells to sort through by the time you're level 25+. (I HATE doing that in a battle)

By the way, two quick questions:

1. What type of specialist mage would you people recommend for a solo SoA/ToB mage?

2. What is the probability a wild mage, without Chaos Shild on, has of a chaos effect taking place when he casts a normal spell (not Reckless Dwemeanor)?

Thanks.

DaJir · Post by **DaJir** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:51 pm

you only get wild surges when you use RD.

and sorcs are the best, even if you have a crappy spell selection you get to know that spell a hell of alot better than any other mage might do otherwise. Scribe'n scrolls just for the xp is plenty cheesy in book.

For any sorc just make sure you have spell immunity, chain contingency, a decent summon spell before the special ability summon and at least one or more clone type spell(mislead, project image, simmy.. i'd take em all) and the rest you can work with and still dominate. With clones and a scroll your limited spell repitoire is pretty much a moot point.
For MR resistant opponents just use your summons or debuff. They aren't you're biggest problem tho, TOB just loves to send swarms and swarms of enemies your way, so have'n your sorc have at least one decent damage AE(horrid wilting, tho i've seen folks make due with just chain lighting... yeck) is a very good idea.

I'd go out on a limb and say all specialist mages cept for edwin blow. That extra spell slot thing sounds good on paper but if you're a mage you learn spell conservation pretty quick, and clone spells like simmy and project image give you enough extra casts to a point where it really doesn't matter.
For pure mages i'd go with a level9 fighter type dual otherwise sorc and wild mage are your best bet.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:06 pm

@Tirinal
1. Conjurer or Invoker are the best (Wild Mage is a bit hard in the beginning of SoA)
2. that is always 5%. the chaos shield just shifts the surge towards better effects.

Scribing scrolls for xp is not a big deal (except when dealing with a "dual gap").

@DaJir
The bonus spell slot of a specialist may not count for a sorcerer, but it do count for a mage as they can only cast the memorized spells.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Sun Jan 20, 2002 7:35 pm

My vote goes for a wild mage. You get all the benefits of extra spell slots (specialist mage) and can cast lvl nine spells from day one (well once you get out and get one) without having to memorise them. It may seem hard at the start of SOA but once you have scribed a few uber spells you become a rampaging spell death machine.

There is a down side. Occasionally a wild surge effect will end the game for you outright.

So to sum up. You are like a sorcerer with an unlimited spell selection (with the number of level one spell slots you have) and the other memorise and cast spells are the ones you know your going to need anyway (eg. stone skin). Going solo I'd recommend having as high a wisdom as you can roll because you need it for limited wish and lore. - Curdis

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:59 am

Originally posted by Curdis:
<STRONG>There is a down side. Occasionally a wild surge effect will end the game for you outright.</STRONG>

A well played wild mage rarely gets a bad surge and could avoid all insta-death and counter most problematic effects.

fishhead · Post by **fishhead** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 3:50 pm

1. Mage is great if you want to dual form another class, especially a fighter or thief.

The Sorc is alotta fun more useful than a straight mage, very realistic as you really only use a small percentage of all the spells available on a level. For example magic missile, how many times does that get used? Or even the breach or Abi dhals horrid wilting. The ability to choose the spells as the situation arises surpasses even a well planned mage. How many ppl do u know use this cheese mage tactic.......fight a monster and die, reload game change your spell configuration and sleep and then fight the monster.........you know your out there. Not saying it's wrong just saying a sorc is better equipped for surprise encounters.

2. As I mentioned before the sorc IMHO wins hands down opposed to the straight or kit mage........there is tons of xp in the game, I don't believe the reading of scrolls dampens the choice sorcerer.

3. Here are my spell choices for my sorc I found that this setup helped me handle every situation. Think about being able to cast these spells any one of them 6 times in a row and that is without the extra spell items you find in the game.

LVL1(5) Blindness,Chromatic Orb,Magic Missile,Shield,Spook
2(5) Blur,Detect Invisibility,HorrorMelf’s Acid Arrow,Vocalize,
3(5) Dispel Magic,Fireball,Haste,Melf’s Minute Meteors,Spell Thrust
4(5) Confusion,Greater Malison,Secret Word,Spider Spawn,Stoneskin
5(5) Breach,Chaos,Cloudkill,Cone of Cold,Lower Resistance
6(5) Chain Lightning,Invisible Stalker,Pierce Magic,Protection from Magical Energy,Summon Nishruu
7(5) Finger of Death,Khelben’s Warding Whip,Limited Wish,Spell Sequencer,Sphere of Chaos
8(4) Abi-Dalzim’s Horrid Wasting,Maze,Simulacrum,Spell Trigger
9(4) Bigby’s Crushing Hand,Time Stop,Spell Strike,Wish

4. Regards to MR on enemies, basically alot of the spells that remove enchantments dont need any MR checks such as the 5ht level spell breach. Most of the advanced fighting will require the sorc to wear the defenses down of opponents while the tanks keep them busy and then use spells that lwr resistance and finally AbiDhalzims is not affected by MR, but they can make a save for half damage only. With a sorc you could throw a greater malison spell and 3-4 abidhals in a row, how is that for killer spells?

Anyways hope that helps you

fishhead

DaJir · Post by **DaJir** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 5:52 pm

omg, you picked Bigby’s Crushing Hand over Chain contingency? wow, you must really want a challenge.
No project image? No animate dead? no polymorph self or shapechange? no mislead?
Where's the cheese man??!?!?!

(1)identify, magic missle, Chromatic orb, protection from evil, spook
(2)Knock, blur, Mirror Image, Strength, Glitterdust
(3)Melf's Minute Meteors, Protection from Normal Missles, Remove magic, Flame Arrow, Skull Trap
(4)Stone Skin, Improved Invisibility, Polymorph self, Greater malison, (fireshield red or minor globe invul)
(5)Animate Dead, Feeblemind(hold monster for you noncheesy folks), Breach, Lower Resistance, Spell Immunity
(6)Mislead!!, Protection From Magic Weapons, Contingency(didn't like it at first but its okay), Spell Deflection, Death Fog(true sight if you're lazy)
(7)Project Image, Mordenkainen's Sword, Summon Hakeshar, Limited Wish(or mass invis which i use alot but with scroll on project image), Khellon's Warding Whip
(8)Abi Dalzin's Horrid Wilting, Power word blind, Simulacrum, Spell Trigger
(9)Chain Contingency, Wish, Shapechange, Spell Strike(if goin no item solo i'd get spell trap. could take timestop or meteor swarm, doesn't matter much to me since i mostly use level9 for chain contingency or wish)
Thats my sorc, great for solo, great for group, great for cheese. Well... mostly solo cheese

Thanks for let'n me take a look at your spell choices, maze is cool enough to make me consider give'n up the cheese of power word blind.... Naw, prolly spell trigger.

I really gotta ask since i haven't used the spell much at all. What use is invisible stalker?

Sorry to get into a sorc spell debate but its a little obsession with me. Only recently started to warm to mage magic in bg2/tob, was a straight warrior or a straight thief in bg1.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:08 pm

@Kovi, really depends on how occasionally occasionally is.

@fishhead, The wild mage can not be so easily dismissed.

wins hands down opposed to the straight or kit mage

the exp arguement while worth considering does not answer my claim that an UNLIMITED (by levels/by 'choices') spell choice is BETTER than a sorcerer. - Curdis

DaJir · Post by **DaJir** » Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:12 pm

@Curdis
Untrue, that what clone spells and scrolls are for. And um.. sorcs get more chicks.. ya.. that too..

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:46 am

@Curdis
I think it is possible to play through a no-death/no-reload solo wild mage.

@DaJir
It is possible to have "unlimited" spells, but without the multiple clone cheese you can't "cast" them fast enough. Try Improved Abazigal or Ascension with a solo Sorcerer.

fishhead · Post by **fishhead** » Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:31 am

@Curdis

You are correct, I neglected to exclude the wild mage as I haven't played them, hence I have no right to say the sorc is better. However IMHO the sorc is better than the straight or kit mages pre-ToB.

@Dajir

Yeah, basically my sorc choices are designed for a party. In big battles I like to have my tanks go medieval, while my sorc throws stuff like greater malison, chaos, abi and bigby on the stronger leader types. For me bigby isnt the most powerful spell, but in terms of roleplaying it's hilarious..........the thought of a huge hand b*tch slapping my enemies makes me LMAO.....hehe

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:13 pm

@Curdis Untrue, that what clone spells and scrolls are for. And um.. sorcs get more chicks.. ya.. that too..

I bow to your greater wisdom although getting to choose reasonably easily is a factor too, we are talking about chicks here - Curdis

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:19 pm

As an experiment, get a Sorc and hack in all the spells. I'd be surprised if you end up using more than 4 different spells per level.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:39 pm

@Xyx

Which if we include only level 7, 8, and 9 spells is twelve scrolls you have to micro manage for your project image/simulacrum.

It is also the 'once in a blue moon' flexibility which can really make the difference - Curdis !

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Jan 27, 2002 7:29 am

Sorcerers have the added "advantage" of not being able to scribe scrolls. This means you can keep bigger stacks or Horrid Wiltings and Time Stops for your clones to use.

DaJir · Post by **DaJir** » Sun Jan 27, 2002 1:46 pm

how many static places can you get a horrid wilting scroll in SOA before the elf city?
i've only managed to find 3, but one was loot from a skele warrior and i think that was just a fluke. Timestop scrolls also.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:23 pm

sorcs are best of all...for many, many reasons. as for xyx's commenet, I have added spells to a sorc, got up to 12 at one opint, and he is right, most spells are trivial or castable by scroll...