Multi Fighter/Theif or Swashbuckler?

GrimReaper · Post by **GrimReaper** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:12 pm

Basically, which do YOU THINK is better with ToB installed and why? Also, what do you think is the best race for a multi fighter/theif? Also, I don't want to dual class my theif. I haven't tried the theif special abilities and so I want to have a theif that levels up for ToB.

P.S. Notice the capitalized YOU THINK. I am asking your opinions here so please don't tell me it depends on my playing style.

Raenvan · Post by **Raenvan** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:50 pm

I haven't played ToB yet, but I liked multi fighter/thieves in BGI (Coran) and in BGII. I think they're the best backstabbers. If you'd like to play a melee fighter choose a half-orc because of str and con bonuses. An elf fighter/thief can be a very good bowman, they get a THAC0 bonus when using bows.

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:04 pm

Ummm I like fighter/thief myself. Especially in smaller parties because then the Multi-class slow experience gaining doesn't matter as much. Ok I like fighter/thief more because:

They can Backstab

They can specialize in a weapon

They can wear heavier armor earlier

They can actually hit stuff (swashbucklers in my experience just can't hit as often. the good thing is they can't be hit themselves.)

best race for a fighter/thief: Elf

There is what I THINK!

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 12:40 am

I have to agree that the fighter/thief is better - my favorite race would be half-orc (if you don't play half-orc with 19 STR, then the fighter/thief is even more superior because you can have 18/whatever STR instead of just 18). i WANT to like swashbucklers, and they are pretty cool, but in the end the fighter thief is better:

The swashies THACO bonus just brings them into line with the fighter/thief, but the fighter thief can grand master in weapons, and use more different weapons like halberds or long bows.

The swashies AC bonus is nice, but the fighter/thief can wear a helmet and use a shield and still use all thieving abilities.

The fighter thief gets "use any item" and the special traps just like the swashbuckler, but can also backstab and use grtr whirlwinds, which is better than the wirlwinds that the swashbuckler gets. (and the ftr/thief can get "assassination too"!)

So I think that the fighter/thief is superior.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 5:34 pm

I am a big believer in swash buckler because of the major ac bonuses, and the dual wield abilities. Back stab, who cares. The swash buckler is WAY more fun. Who is cooler, seamon or, hmm, can't think of a f/t of hand. meh,.
For a fun game, take a swashbuckler becuase of straight thief skills. Fr power gaming, take f/t

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:11 am

If you like backstabbing, go for a Fighter/Thief. Otherwise pick the Swashbuckler.

I'd prefer the Fighter/Thief since backstabbing is really cool (and useful). My preferred race would have to be a Halfling because of high Dex and their race bonuses to thief skills. And because of nostalgia, I guess - Montaron was great! Why not keep the AC down to a minimum using a shield. A short sword for melee and backstabbing and a sling for distance (less known than the elves' bonus with bows, halflings get the same with slings). Makes for an original and fun PC.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:27 am

I thinkt it's stupid to just look at what is the most powerfull. I only pick whats appealing to me.

Not when I find, say the crom fayer start specialising in hammers simply because it's powerfull! If you like a sword use it, if you like an hammer use it.

Pick what you think is the coolest!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 3:39 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin:
I thinkt it's stupid to just look at what is the most powerfull. I only pick whats appealing to me.

Not when I find, say the crom fayer start specialising in hammers simply because it's powerfull! If you like a sword use it, if you like an hammer use it.

Pick what you think is the coolest!

Are you referring to me mentioning racial bonuses? I can't see anyone else discussing the choise of weapon. Well, I totally agree with you. I think a Fighter/Thief using a sling *is* cool. And it sure isn't as powerful as the Gesen or Tancheron bows.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:15 am

Originally posted by Astafas:
Are you referring to me mentioning racial bonuses? I can't see anyone else discussing the choise of weapon. Well, I totally agree with you. I think a Fighter/Thief using a sling *is* cool. And it sure isn't as powerful as the Gesen or Tancheron bows.

Well, what I mean is, they are discussing what the best race is for say a theif.

And I think, don't look for what race has what benefits(poisen protection ect.), pick a race that appails to you. Like a dwarf = be a dwarf, wannna be human then be humen!

I used the weaopons as an example.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 10:03 am

The swashbuckler is the coolest character in the game so go with that.
If you want to powergame then dual him/her to a fighter. But you didn't want to dual did you.

Saigo · Post by **Saigo** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:36 pm

I've played a Swashbuckler in several games since January, and it's definitely my top choice. I have a level 35 Swashbuckler in ToB now with the Bladesinger Chain and other AC enhancing items. At this point, his AC is -17, without breaking a sweat! If I tried harder, I could probably get it to -20 and not lose my thieving skills.

Armed with the Celestial Fury (and any good sword in his off hand) or with the Gesen Bow, he is easily as good in melee as a fighter.

I have done something different with this character, though. I use him as a Ninja. He's not the "happy go lucky" type. He's the main character, so I beefed him up with Belts of Giant Strength and Boots of Speed. He wears the Ring of Gaxx and a Ring of Regeneration, healing 6 points a round. And with the Avoid Death special ability, he's virtually unstopable.

It was fun getting this character to this point, too.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 3:26 pm

If yoou want powergaming in ToB, take the Fighter Thief definately, But the Swashbuckler is still my fav. I had mine at the end of SoA dual wielding equalizer and blackrazer, wearing blade singer chain, belt of giant strength, boots of speed, gaxx and human influence. His AC was -21 i think, -23 is he used one weapon. Gave him that theif amulet in the firegiant place MAN ALIVE!!
Nothing could hit him at all. I just walk him into anything. Demogorgan even missed. It was crazy, then with my skald going IMP battle song YIKES. He was unstoppable.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 5:57 pm

Originally posted by Meerlight:
Ok I like fighter/thief more because:

They can specialize in a weapon

So can Swashbucklers!

Originally posted by THE JAKER:
the fighter thief can grand master in weapons

Dual: yes, multi (what we're dealing with in this thread): no (unless this somehow changed for ToB).

Originally posted by Rob-hin:
Pick what you think is the coolest!

My characters think powerful weapons are cool.

Some other considerations for The Choice:

The multi gets more base Hit Points and benefits from Constitution 17+.

The multi gets extra attacks!

The Swashbuckler advances much quicker.

Masteraleph · Post by **Masteraleph** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 6:04 pm

I'm not sure which is better, but I like swashbuckler a lot more. My current PC in fact is one, his name is Dread Pirate Roberts (for those princess bride fans out there).

GrimReaper · Post by **GrimReaper** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 8:47 pm

After thinking about it, I've decided to go with the Swashbuckler. I did a few tests by making a couple characters and leveling them up and also importing some of the equipment I would expect them to be wearing.I'm sure I'll miss the backstab, the Swashbuckler makes up for it in the fact that with the White Dragon chain for armor and Crom Faeyr in my offhand as well as various other equipment I had a -9 thac0 with either hand and a -16 AC without loss of thieving skills. I also noticed that on top of normal theif abilities, the Swashbuckler gets whirlwind attack, though they miss out on assassination. I think this is a good trade, and I could see the Swashbuckler as the best fighter in my party. And one last thing, the thieving skills are ridiculous by the end for the Swashbuckler.