Who dishes out heaps of melee damage...

ReignsOfPower · Post by **ReignsOfPower** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 4:14 am

I'm tired of being a mage or Cleric in BG2. To tell you the truth I am sick of developing spell strategies to kill a Single Goblin.

I am after a 'No brainer' as some of you might put it. I was thinking out of these 3 to choose.
Half- Orc, Barbarian
Half-Orc, Beserker
Human Monk

Obviously the Monk would deal out alot of damage, but I am concerned about low Hitpoionts.

Reall I am after a TANK, as best as they can get in ToB. Thanks for any help in advance.

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 4:25 am

The berserker.

After rewards in Hell, and the Machine of Lum the Mad, you have 23 str. Sure it may go up to 25 with the Barbarian, but if you choose berserker, you get the benefits of grandmastery which more than makes up for the loss with better thac0 bonuses, more attacks and more damage. You also have better selection of armor, but lower hitpoints. But those HP won't really be missed.

ReignsOfPower · Post by **ReignsOfPower** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 4:29 am

hrmmmm...I don't really like besrek though. U get winded after and can't re-use it fast enough.

I guess its Down to the Monk and Barbarian then.

StigTC · Post by **StigTC** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 5:14 am

The berserkers berserk makes him immune to imprisonment, the barbarian rage does not. And with the improved demi-lich AI, U ARE GOING TO NEED IT.

dimon37 · Post by **dimon37** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:11 am

I am pretty sure barbarian rage makes you immune to imprisonment

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:39 am

I've played an half-orc barbarian and barb-rage does NOT make you immune to imprisonment, believe me!

nael · Post by **nael** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 8:47 am

plus, even though you get higher hit points with a barbarian, the armour restrictions really suck.
and might i suggest that you use a dwarf instead of a halforc. with so many strength enhancing items, why do you need a halforc with 19 strength? you still get the 19 constitution with a dwarf, plus better savign throws against magic and poison.
i played a dwarf berserker modeled after korgan, dual wielding hammers and axes. plus as a dwarf you can get the dwarven thrower which is great to use when enemies are suck in door ways like golems.

Stoner Cold · Post by **Stoner Cold** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 9:56 am

i went through with a half-orc fighter. i dont like fighter kits. they should make one where you cant use blunt weapons, only blades. and vice versa. that would be interesting.

BilboTheHobbit · Post by **BilboTheHobbit** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 6:36 pm

The barbarian rage does make you immune to imprisonment, I have tried.

What do you think Kangaxx the demi lich did against my soloing barbarian? NOTHING, without imprisonment he is easy.

ReignsOfPower · Post by **ReignsOfPower** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:16 pm

Are you serious about the Barbarian rage making him immune to imprisonment???

I conducted some experiments.
I leveled up a Human Monk, Human Beserker and a Human Barbarian each to level 40.
I gave the Barb. and Beserker a Warblade 4+, a Full Plate Mail and a Plain helmet. They both had the same AC, yet the Monk remained a few higher (I hacked this down to make it even)

The first run was the Barbarian v Beserker using their Rage abilities. The Barbarian won 7/10 times.
Then I tried it without rage abilities but this time with greater whirlwind engaged. It was the Beserker this time with his grand mastery in Two Handed swords wich rose above the Barbarian. The beserker won 7/10 times.

I then tried the Monk v Barbarian (I hacked a plain helmet on the monk to avoid critical hits)without abilities the Monk 9/10 times. He rarely missed. With enrage abilities the Monk won 8/10 times. Same went with the Beserker.

I then tried Monk v Barbarian with Greater Whilwind. The Barbarian won 10/10 times. As did the Beserker. This time it was the Monks lower hitpoints which determined win or loss.

As you can see it is quite clear that the Monk owns the other two classes without abilities, hands down. But with Abilities (such as Greator Whildwind) He was dead before the Ability ended. (1 round)

I am still unsure as to which class is more 'Efficient' I am really after a TANK which can take AND deal large ammounts of Melee damage. I am leaning considerably towards the Monk than the Barbarian, however. This is because in 3rd ADnD rules the Monk gets its proper Special abilities like Balthazar. Solar Stance and Dragon Fist to name a few.

[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: ReignsOfPower ]

ReignsOfPower · Post by **ReignsOfPower** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:19 pm

Also concerning the Armour resrtictions of the Barbarian. He can wear the White Dragon scale which has a -2 AC, Which is just as good as all the Full Plate and plate armours.

nael · Post by **nael** » Sat Sep 08, 2001 2:03 am

yeah, but you get the white dragon scale so late.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Sep 08, 2001 2:20 am

Warblade is not the best of weapons for duels... Try Soul Reaver, Answerer, Blackrazor, Crom or the Flail of Ages. Those take stuff down much easier.

Lykwid · Post by **Lykwid** » Sun Sep 09, 2001 2:09 pm

Also consider the monk has lay on hands ability , at the higher lvls its quite significant , and somewhat offsets the lower hp totals. Also the monk ends up with the best AC of all melee, and they can quite easily achieve close to 100 magic resist which you will find is invaluable (resists imprisionment and almost all other magic, even saravoks deathbringer assult is resisted), add the ability to find traps and hide in shadows , the monk makes and excellent lead tank.

The real downside is you dont get to play with alot of the really cool weapons that are in the game.

-Lykwid.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sun Sep 09, 2001 7:13 pm

As much as I agree that the Monk is an awesome fighter and really useful, that does not make him the best tank.
Tanks not only deal insane damage, but can take it. Monks use 1d8, the others use 1d12 or 1d10. Also, monks can only get 18 strength, the others can get 18/00. Yes im aware this isnt a factor cuz there are like 20 items to raise strength.
For the monks detect traps and hide in shadows abilities, there is a reason I have a thief. Lay on hands is good, but There is this thing called a cleric...

If I were going to solo, I would pick a monk hands down. But if I wanted a powerful tank to take the beatings, barbarian all the way

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:14 pm

Lets not forget that Monks can use Greater Whirlwind as well Reigns of Power...

Lets assume all the classes get maximum hit points per level up. Since classes only get Hit dice till level 9 the hit point difference is not a real factor. A fighter would have around 18 more hps. (a barbarian would have 18 more than the fighter and 36 more than the monk.) Now monks also have access to several items that fighters do not which increase their hps making the hit point difference a non-factor.

As for the detect traps ability being useless because their are thieves in the game... wrong. Thieves rarely lead the party through dungeons and are usually in the back where traps are no danger. The monk on the other hand usually is in front where trap detection is important. The monk detects a trap and stops, the thief then comes and disarms it. This is useful for dungeons where traps are sometimes gaurded by monsters.

As for the monks lay on hands ability... It is very fast, faster than a cleric spell. It acts like a very potent healing potion and is useful in the heat of battle where cleric healing spells have too long of a casting time.

Overall, I say go for a monk (if you couldn't tell) because after all, there are 3 fighters in the game.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 2:40 am

A Monk drawback is that they don't get to use any or all of the cool weapons that give various extra powers... And unless you rest after every fight, you won't be Laying On Hands and Quivering Palming as much either.

ReignsOfPower · Post by **ReignsOfPower** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 2:45 am

I am well aware that Monks can use Greator Whirwind and the sorts. The fact is, Monks have crappy HitPoints to be considered a 'Tank'. Weapons can dish out just as much damage as a Monk.

Sure lay on hands ability is fast but, isn't it 2 HP every two levels or something? None the less, Lay On Hands @ Level 40 heals approx. 20% of the Monk, Big deal.

I am playing a Barbaian (Half-Orc) and just ran through Irenicuses Dungeon. I have to tell you, He had a -2 AC at the end of it and barely got 25% hurt, thats without healing OR sleeping! The 25 Strangth and Constituion is really cool. (I rolled 100 for this guy!19/18/19/16/10/18)

Did I mention that the Barbarian has 20% resistance to all Pysical damage, his rage is imprisonment resistant and with a combination of 1 hardiness he has 60% resistance to damage, very cool.

I am not saying the Monks are crap. Hell No! They rule, they just don't quite cut it for a 'Tank'. A Tank for me is one who can kill a Demogorgon single-handedly. LOL, i tested this. I pumped A Monk and Barb. to max everything incl. items and took on Demogorgon. The Monk died (yet only after dealing a ****load of damage), no matter what strategy i used. But the Barbarian wooped his Demonic a$$. Weapons may not deal as much damage as the Fists, but they have some REALLY helpful abilities which makes up for it.

EDIT: Oh, and a Barbarian has 20 more Hitpoints than a Fighter and 40 more than A Monk woth the "same" Constitution.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: ReignsOfPower ]

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 9:44 am

Fighter classes get extra bonus hps if they have a constitution score above 16. A barbarian with con 19 get 5 bonus hps each level. A monk can only get 2. That is a difference of 7 each level until level 10.
This plus the physical resistance makes the barbarian a great tank.

jonaso · Post by **jonaso** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:17 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ReignsOfPower:

I would choose Human Monk. I played human monk first, and loved it. I have tried dozen other tanks, but it is not the same. When the monk gains his ablity stun his opponent, he becomes amazing. But pick what you like. They all have their pros and cons, but that is what makes them fun.

Its about finding yourself and your inner self