BotB Monks

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:35 am

Originally posted by Rail:
But, once again, wherever they end up is just a title to categorize or organize the guild members.

If we go about it that way, we might as well let each and every member choose for themselves in which Wing they end up. I wouldn't have any problems with this, since it puts an end to all this discussion (including the multiclass issues).

If we just make a couple of places centered around a theme instead of a class, people will flock to whatever place they feel fits them best, which is the way it should be, IMO.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:56 am

I think that is not a very good idea. What kind of themes will you have? IMHO it seems a very dodgy idea...

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 7:55 am

How about the themes Good, Nuetral and Evil? or Law, Nuetrality and Chaos? IMO a good mage and a good fighter have a lot more in common with eachother than a good fighter and an evil fighter. Personally, I don't see why anyone would want to actually roleplay an evil character. It seems that the DMs in Argyle expect everybody to roleplay your characters.

P.S. IMHO this guild should become a good/nuetral guild in order to counteract the actions of the 2 smaller but evil guilds in Argyle. But if you really want to be be evil... don't hang around my character

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:05 am

Well I'd say that as a wizard I have more in common with a evil/good wizard than with a neutral fitghter.
We must remember that these wings are not ment as anything more than organizational, and possible a place to share experience about strategies. They are not meant as you must adventure inside the wings.

The reason I feel we made the wings was so that we could make an organisation were people could get heard instead of 1 leader we currently have a Council of Five.

Also one must remember that because a character is "aligment" evil, dosen't mean that this character runs around killing all that has aligment good.
It just means that this character has something other the other peoples wellbeing as motivation ei. a search for wealth or power.
Also in NwN IIRC your aligment can change if you only do good deed, your characters alignment will shift towards good and vice versa.

And I think that evil people should be welcome in the guild - after all our motivation for making the guild was to unite GB-players so we could RP together when we wanted to.

EDIT: Also in regardin to aligment.
Since it is only you and not your character that should know the other peoples alignment - maybe I should remove it from the lists as to avoid metagaming.

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Xandax ]

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:27 am

Yes but a person roleplaying a Paladin just might decide to kill an evil player after he casts that detect evil spell. Personally I could care less if people really want to play an evil character. I just want them to realise that you might have to actually roleplay and good characters will roleplay as well. So if you steal from that merchant but that Paladin across the street notices, you just might have to deal with your character being executed.

Now IMO good characters of different classes have more in common than characters of the same class with different alignments. For example:
A lawful good Mage and a chaotic evil Mage may both cast spells but the reason they cast spells is different. The lawful good mage may have taken up spellcasting to find a lost loved one where the chaotic evil mage may take up spellcasting just to strike fear into commoners. Now a lawful good fighter may also take up the sword to find a lost loved one. Sure characters of the same class but different alignment have more in common in terms of their abilities but their motivations and thought process are extremely different. In those respects, that is why I think a good fighter and a good mage have more in common with eachother than an evil mage and a good mage.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:32 am

But if a good wizard needs to share strategies about familiar summoning, spell sequences - would he be able to do this with a good fighter?
This is why IMO we have wings.

just like a good fighter talking about fighting feats, would he discuss these with a good wizard.
Or a good cleric discussing clerical spells with a good bard or an evil cleric?

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 9:43 am

You see we're talking about 2 different things here, you're talking about wings outside of the game and I'm talking about wings inside.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 9:51 am

I'm talking both in-game and out-game.

ei. ingame - wizard can share spells, this is something I would do even with an "evil" wizard if I trusted him/her - and not a good/neutral wizard I didn't trust.

and you don't have to adventure with all from your wing - you don't even have to adventure with anybody from your wing.
So you can adventure with all-good people if you wishes - I don't feel that this makes for a organisational change?

Also I don't see much use for the wings in-game actually?

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Xandax ]

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 11:52 am

All I'm saying is that if I see somebody perform an evil act, I'm going to get all up in their face.

As for a good wizard sharing a spell with an evil wizard: how can you get to trust a person you know is evil? Even wizards sharing spells with people they trust completely is incredibly rare. Granted you could play as a trusting young mage that is very naive in order to share your spells. Sharing spells is great for powergaming but not so great for roleplaying.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:19 pm

I honestly don't mind if people want to change things. I however like it the way it is. I beleive monks should go into the Divine wing because there strenght is spirit based. And with regards to the other things a wing will work together. After all, a CE character will want to become strong therefore he will help the guild.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:22 pm

Well the sharing of spells is a great way to exchange knowlegde and even an "evil" person will see this - therefore there is plenty of reason to embark on that.
I would be a fool, not to share my knowlegde with somebody if I feel that I get something good in return - maybe you can/will call it powergaming, but that is also the way I react IRL.

And as for the trusting part - well that is one reason I joined this guild, was so I could trust the people I game with.
And the aligment thing, is only a guideline - it is not how the player truly is.
If not - well then I'd might as well play with somebody met online calling himself "Kill-em-all".
The whole idea is that eventhough we are
different - we can still "live" together.

Again an evil person - needs not be a person running around killing everybody, he could simply just look out for himself first.

As for you RPing a "good" fighter that wants to kill all evil - well you are permitted to do that, I'd just think it would be hard for you to automatic attack anything evil.

But all I'm saying, really, is that IMO it would be pointless to divide/change the wings into "good", "neutral" and "evil" instead, because I know that as a wizard I'd talk to, and share knowlegde with other wizards (good or evil).
And I belive that if I'd played a fighter - I would exchange information with the fightingmen (again good or evil) etc.

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:46 pm

Ok Xan, I think you missed my point. I want to travel around with players I know and trust just like you but just because I trust the player doesn't mean my character has to trust his character, you see what I'm saying? Thats role-playing. I will exchange strategies with all characters in my wing outside of the game. But in the game I might not be so willing to tell that evil fighter that trolls only die to fire or acid...

I'm not advocating that we change the ways the wings are organized from the way they are now. I was just giving an example of another way to organize our selves as per Nippy's request.

My character is not going to destroy all evil outright. (I'm no paladin!) All I'm saying is that if I see an evil act occur, I'm going to try my hardest to set things right.

As for wizards exchanging spells: I don't really believe that an evil wizard would want to do this unless he clearly came out with the better deal. For example: Evil wizard learns Fireball and other wizard learns Identify.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:11 pm

Originally posted by Nippy:
What kind of themes will you have?

Well, I was thinking along the lines of...

Nature boys (we already have that one).
Boozers, gamblers & other tavern-going folk (a bit like the Fighter's Wing is now ).
Magic-users. Not strictly for Wizards & Sorcerers, but for everyone who's interested in magic.
A$$-kickers. What the Fighter's Wing should be like, IMHO. People sparring all day long.
Skullduggers (what I imagine the Rogue's Wing to be under Weasel's competent guidance). Not restricted to Rogues; maybe some warriors or mages also feel up to no good.
Goodies. For all you Lawful Goodies out there. Not limited to Paladins and Clerics, since other classes can value righteousness almost as much and may want to be a part of it.
Powergamers.
Elves.
Roleplayers.
Anything else that has a group of about five people to flesh it out...

Note that these are just general ideas...

Originally posted by Xandax:
Well I'd say that as a wizard I have more in common with a evil/good wizard than with a neutral fitghter.

And I'd say that as a True Neutral Elven Sorcerer with an appetite for destruction I have more in common with a True Neutral Elven Cleric with an appetite for destruction than a Lawful Good Human Wizard that likes to summon hot-tub waitresses.

Originally posted by Xandax:
because a character is "aligment" evil, dosen't mean that this character runs around killing all that has aligment good.

Well... the opposite is certainly true.

Originally posted by Meerlight:
if you steal from that merchant but that Paladin across the street notices, you just might have to deal with your character being executed.

Thief: "But I only stole a bread to feed my starving children!"

Paladin: "Off with his head!"

Originally posted by Meerlight:
The lawful good mage may have taken up spellcasting to find a lost loved one where the chaotic evil mage may take up spellcasting just to strike fear into commoners.

And then there's that 95% that casts spells to kill stuff in dungeons and get phat lewt.

Originally posted by Xandax:
Or a good cleric discussing clerical spells with a good bard or an evil cleric?

Actually, all spellcasters can pretty much cast the same spells. Almost every spell in the game can be cast by at least three different classes. If you want discussion on this, you'll have to include more than just Wizards and Sorcerers.

Originally posted by Meerlight:
All I'm saying is that if I see somebody perform an evil act, I'm going to get all up in their face.

And that's why Rogues get Stealth.

Originally posted by Meerlight:
Sharing spells is great for powergaming but not so great for roleplaying.

Why? What's so unnatural about maximizing your chances of survival?

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 6:05 pm

Yikes! I didn't mean to touch off such a firey debate

Forget I asked. It doesn't seem to matter much in any event, as no one has opted for a monk character.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Meerlight:
Ok Xan, I think you missed my point. I want to travel around with players I know and trust just like you but just because I trust the player doesn't mean my character has to trust his character, you see what I'm saying? <snip>

Yes - neither does mine, but he wont naturally distrust anybody that get's label as "evil" by alignment/detect evil