anomen

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat May 19, 2001 8:50 pm

Ah yes, and don't we all want to be treated like goddesses

Must be why we all appreciate the attentions of certain slaves so much

[ 05-19-2001: Message edited by: dragon wench ]

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Sun May 20, 2001 12:34 am

Goddesses you are and ever shall be.

Now, if I understand correctly, one of the appealing aspects fo the Anomen Romance is that you, as PC, can use your love for him to help change him for the better. He is the only character whose alignment can change in the game. The romances for the men simply have sex as an ultimate goal. Yet, the one romance for women offers a bit more. This may be the result of a shrewd understanding of the female mind on the part of the game developers. But couldn't they also be playing into gender stereotypes of the kind that say women always try to change their man, never accepting them for who they are? Or maybe they are saying "behind every great knight there is a great demi-goddess?" Another stereotype. Why can't the men have a greater influence on their romances? Perhaps an alignment change for Vic or a couple of points to Constitution for Aerie (i.e. a little backbone).

Although, I fully acknowledge the possibility that some gender stereotypes may be derived from factual tendencies.

Mayhap men have little interest in affecting such change, and this is why so many on this board find Anomen to be an egotistical creep. It takes a women's understanding and empathy to be willing to see his true potential under that bravado.

Some late night musings. My gender issues course work was so long ago. Sleep well, my Mistresses.

[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: Gwalchmai ]

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun May 20, 2001 6:45 am

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
But couldn't they also be playing into gender stereotypes of the kind that say women always try to change their man, never accepting them for who they are? Or maybe they are saying "behind every great knight there is a great demi-goddess?" Another stereotype. Why can't the men have a greater influence on their romances?...

This has crossed my mind as well...but if you think about it, the PC is never actively trying to change Anomen, just to help him through his issues, as a good friend would. And that, having a caring friend to listen and advise -- having someone think he's worth something, for a change, after being constantly reminded of his worthlessness all his life -- is what naturally brings about the change from anger and bitterness. So I see it more as a positive influence than an attemp at changing a person...I know that my best friend and I have influenced one another's lives for the better without the intent of changing each other (most of the time

)...

It takes a women's understanding and empathy to be willing to see his true potential under that bravado.

[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun May 20, 2001 8:36 am

Interesting....I've also thought a lot about the ways in which the pc influences Anomen. And when you consider it, it's a highly significant part of the romance.

When Anomen's father dies he explicitly states that his having listened to the pc's advice had resulted in his father's death.
I'm not sure if all this parallels real life, where listening to the advice of a friend can have mixed consequences......or if the game developers are perpetuating sterotypes. I mean, it's certainly true that they've held by other stereotypes throughout the game. As I mentioned in the romance scipt thread, "evil" characters are portayed as singularly lustful (Viconia), while "good" characters focus more on the caring elements of a relationship. As Georgi has discovered, Anomen becomes less sexually inhibited as a CN character. And isn't Aerie emblematic of the sweet, innocent, young girl who can't handle sex, and thus needs to go off and think once consumation occurs?
So given these stereotypes, it's reasonable to question the motivations behind the Anomen romance as well.
Yet, I also think that Loner is right, in a close friendship/relationship it's inevitable that the individuals involved will have a huge impact on one another's lives. Indeed, often even passing contact can result in someone's life being changed forever. I don't have the exact quote with me, but I remember that Tennyson in his poem Ulysses makes this point.
So while the game developers may in fact have been employing stereotypes in creating Anomen's character/relationship, they also appear to have unwittingly scripted a romance that has a greater bearing on reality than do the others.
I don't know............it's really hard to say. But I haven't had coffee yet, maybe my thoughts will be clearer once the caffeine has started to course through my system.

[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: dragon wench ]

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun May 20, 2001 9:39 am

Originally posted by dragon wench:
As Georgi has discovered, Anomen becomes less sexually inhibited as a CN character. And isn't Aerie emblematic of the sweet, innocent, young girl who can't handle sex, and thus needs to go off and think once consumation occurs?

Yep

But hopefully, Senior Wizard Manveru will change all that

Petri · Post by **Petri** » Sun May 20, 2001 1:58 pm

WOW!! There are like LOTS of posts on this thread.. This

Anomen

must really be something special, eh?!?

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Sun May 20, 2001 4:02 pm

Congrats all, This has again been a fun read! I have lots to think about regarding Anomen, and the romances in BG2 in general

Does the PC change Anomen? Hmmm..yes and no... I don't like the idea that you set out to change another person..but that's just the way it seems to be set up. In BG2, because of the dialogue options, one does directly influence him, and ALL you come in contact with. (Keldorn being an example: One can send him to the courts or to talk it out with his wife.)

Onto Anomen again: I've been playing through again, and he doesn't like the fact that I'm a thief. Not lawful enough I guess?

But, the romance has been very fun. In some ways moving very fast (Just had three dialogues in a 'game' day ). He now seems to want reassurance of my love, that I am not using him only for 's-e-x'...oh it's fun to see what he'll say

Petri: Actually he does

He's got that 'devoted to my cause, not used to women, yet know what I want' thing going for him

Evandarian · Post by **Evandarian** » Sun May 20, 2001 4:11 pm

Hey! Here to post my two (or three) bits about Anomen and everything else this post has to say

First of all, I am sorry to say that I cannot be a slave of the Harem because I am currently devoted to Jaheira

(glad some of you have sorta changed your minds about her)
I think that Anomen and Jaheira's romances with the most depth. As you ppl have said, consummation is mostly the main, final point of the male pc's romances.

This is one of the things that irks me and made me start considering Anomen as a romance
Like a lot of the ppl around here, I was really turned off with Anomen's arrogance and all... I didn't really like being compared to his sister! but he turned out to be really sweet and everything...

On another point, I've been writing BGfic too (cheers to Georgi; thought I was the only one around). I wanted a sort of love triangle for my male PC and Jaheira and I was thinking -possibly- Anomen

Of course, not that Jaheira would choose Anomen over Kael!

but it was a thought, like maybe Jaheira helping Anomen obtain his knighthood as a friend, gets hit on by Anomen

yeah, I think this will get flames from the Harem...

or the other way around, with Viconia as the third person but that's another thought...
I might start another fic after with a female PC- the alternate romance stuff you've got in the other post is cool

**awaits the flames! (possible suggestions, too)**

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun May 20, 2001 4:12 pm

@Vivien -- So he makes comments about you being a thief? Interesting...that's gratitude!! I hope you keep reminding him of who disables the traps

Hmm...I don't recall getting a "hope you're not using me" dialogue. Class and alignment have got to have something to do with all this...

@Evandarian --

The Harem greets an Anomen fan...even if you don't want to be a slave...Stop by our tent at SYM anyway...

Alas, we've found that stereotypes abound in the BGII romances...but what I like most about the Anomen romance is that it starts out as a friendship -- like the Jaheira romance, probably why those two have, as you say, the most depth...

Someone mentioned (was it Gwalchmai???) getting a fiction page on GameBanshee...something to pursue, now that we have a few talented authors?...Feel free to join in on the "Alternates" thread too...

And you know, in the game Anomen does comment on how "striking" Viconia is...she's probably the type to be interested in him, too, if only for the sake of making him lose his Lawful Good inhibitions

...the old male attraction to the "bad girl" type (we were talking about stereotypes, right?

)...just a thought...

[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

Evandarian · Post by **Evandarian** » Sun May 20, 2001 4:44 pm

**whew, no flames?**

A fiction page would be a really cool idea
I've got the first chapter of BG1 (and half of the first chapter for BG2, but that's fast-tracking wayyyyy ahead- gotta have a solid foundation?

) for my pc, Kael

I was thinking, maybe a female PC in a romance with Anomen and Viconia comes along...

of course, I can never manage to finish a story because they end up wayyyyy too long (a novel! the first chapter i've written is like 5 pages font 10!)

okay, you ppl can call me an Anomen fan, maybe, but I'm a Jaheira fan first and foremost!

[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: Evandarian ]

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sun May 20, 2001 4:50 pm

Originally posted by Evandarian:
I was thinking, maybe a female PC in a romance with Anomen and Viconia comes along...

When Anomen made that remark in my game it went like this:
"Looks like they're burning a Drow. Good."
(Party conversation w/Viconia...)
"I had no idea the Drow could be so...striking...Keep her or not, it matters not to me..."
So as long as she's gorgeous, it's okay

I really thought there would be a triangle developing there, but I guess not...

okay, you ppl can call me an Anomen fan, maybe, but I'm a Jaheira fan first and foremost!

Ah, such devotion is delightful to see...

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun May 20, 2001 7:56 pm

Yes, please everyone, do feel free to contribute to the alternate romance thread

. I've been drinking wine in the sun, and I just got home and had a beer handed to me, so afraid I'm in no frame to personally contribute anything coherent at the moment. Take Care all,
later

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Mon May 21, 2001 7:57 am

Evandarian: Welcome, and very interesting additions

Hmmm..but wouldn't Viconia fight 'dirty' in the game of love?

Loner72: Most of his complaints came about because of the thief guild hall. You don't have to do anything TOO evil, you have to kill a cowled wizard (which I've no problem with, they took Imoen!), but he hates 'being associated' with dishonorable thieves (not ME, just my association)...it's a bit holier than thou...but then I started leaving him outside the guildhouse while I made my transactions...problem solved

What he hasn't heard can't hurt him as all couples have secrets

Actually...he starts talking about his love bringing out something more in me, he will be 'content' but hopes for something more (I chose the 'I don't want you to leave me, I know that much' when he asked me if I loved him dialogue). I have it saved from there, am just interested in seeing where it goes from here... (I remember there was one line with him very disapointed as to what I was after from him..thus the 'using' me part, if not that exact word)...

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 21, 2001 8:21 am

I think Vicona would fight dirty, to get her man. I don't think she would have use for Anomen. Unless, to poke holes in him, with her spear.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Mon May 21, 2001 8:31 am

Darkpoet: True...I actually am not sure if she would have a use for Anomen. Opposites attract, but I don't think she would like him...(consider him weak)...

Keldorn is the closest I can think of for a strong intelligent man for Vic...but alas, we ALL know how that goes...

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon May 21, 2001 9:03 am

Ah, Evandarian and Petri, nice to see some new faces round here

Lady Georgi of the Dark Flames bids you welcome...

Ev - at least you write your stuff in chronological order, I start with random scenes and then fill in the bits inbetween!!
If I ever finish it, it will be 1. a miracle, and 2. very long!!

*unsheathes flametongue sword +4...*

I don't think Jaheira would be interested in Anomen. Unless he was CN. When he's LG, he's too interested in righteousness, while she's more interested in restoring balance.
Having said that, IIRC Khalid was lawful good... not a holier-than-thou paladin though. I just think Jaheira and Anomen's personalities would clash a bit much. Just MHO

I can see Aerie developing a crush on Anomen though.

Viv - Anomen gets annoyed about dealings with the shadow thieves regardless of class.
And the romance... well, I won't spoil it

When Anomen's father dies he explicitly states that his having listened to the pc's advice had resulted in his father's death.

DW - I don't think that's necessarily supposed to reflect the real way of things... it is Anomen getting angry and lashing out, blaming someone else for what was ultimately his action... Hence the resolution involves his finally shouldering the responsibility for what he has done - not blaming his father, or Saerk, or the PC, or anyone else...

loner, I agree that the PC doesn't set out to change Anomen, it just happens as you go along...

Gwalchy

Maybe one of the strengths of the Anomen romance is the way you can interpret it in different ways? Oh, and someone said this ages ago, but being able to change Anomen's alignment means that an evil PC can still romance him and do that evil thang...
did you say gender issues coursework? DW, I think we have another one...

erm, have I left anyone out? I hope not...

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 21, 2001 9:07 am

So he would start chasing Aerie. I don't think she is all that innocient.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon May 21, 2001 9:20 am

I think Vic and Edwin would get on like a house on fire...

Anomen wouldn't chase Aerie... but if she was fawning over him he would be interested because it would make him feel less worthless.
The thing is, Anomen needs a strong woman he can rely on... Aerie has less backbone than he does!

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 21, 2001 9:25 am

I hope they give her a little backbone, in the ToB.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Mon May 21, 2001 9:29 am

Georgi: Actually Edwin hits on Vic

But, she tells him 'You will speak when I tell you to slave' or something like that.. I don't think she likes non-warrior men