help in Watchers Keep final guardians

fishhead · Post by **fishhead** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:26 am

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I am trying to take out the final guardians in watchers keep the ones with the Kensai, Hive Mother, demons and a big snake woman(sorry I don't know the real names). Its the upper left key. Anyways I am getting my ass KICKED!! I have reloaded multiple times and cant get it done! I would like to do the battle without cheese for the first time(I can play with the cheese strats later). My diff setting is just below insane level and I have:

Paladin 26th
Sarevok 18fighter/19thief
Imoen 22nd
Viconia 31st
Sorc 25th or 26th cant remember
Fighter/thief 9/32

I got some pretty primo gear and my sorc has been doing some serious butt-kicking, but I ran into these guys and DAMN!! I can usually kill 1 maybe 2 and than I am toast, cause usually 2-3 of my guys are dead. I've been trying to play it like a real party would as in no preparations like traps or other cheeselike substances...........not that there is anything wrong with that, but like I said, been doin really well with it, didnt even need to prep with SoA final battle. What am I not doing, I allow myself to have some pets as any normal party would roaming a dungeon.......please tips or strategies preferrably clean? Maybe I am still to low level for this battle?

Thanks in advance

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 12:33 pm

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First of all, before turning the key, get your thieves busy planting all of the spike traps they have around where the Hive Mother & Marilith (snake women) appear, and then all of the normal traps the game will allow. One or more of the baddies should go down immediately when they appear. Next, have your clerics throw up the standard combat protections like Chaotic Commands, Death Ward, and Resist Fear. Have your mages cast Spell Trap, your clerics cast Shield of the Archons, and equip the Shield of Balduran & Cloak of Mirroring on your fighters if you have them. Next, summon some fodder - Planetar, Mordenkainens Swords, etc. Move your party over to a corner. Send one PC, invisible and equipped with boots of speed over to unlock the key. As soon as the guardians appear, move the PC out of there. If you've got them, have your mage throw some Dragon's Breath spells toward the battle lines. Try to draw out the guardians one at a time with ranged weapons, and use your greater whirlwinds.

Robnark · Post by **Robnark** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 1:11 pm

yet again, SPOILERS
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I find the nymph-thing a bigger problem than the hive mother, since i find summonings hold them up long enough to regroup in a room to the side, and having them get charmed is freakin' annoying

. Also, try using a seriously shielded, hasted and buffed tank to turn the key, with the rest of the group in a room with the closing doors. these can cut off enemies, allowing you to slaghter them on their own, as well as allowing you to rest while they are closed.

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 1:54 pm

I think Sojourner has given the best policy for this battle. But I also agree with Robnark, about...

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...the nymph (Succubus, right?). That's where you should set your best traps prior to the battle.

Cheers

fishhead · Post by **fishhead** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 1:59 pm

Has anybody been able to take this group down without any major preparations such as laying traps down or hiding while the minions attack? I was kinda looking for a clean strategy where, as realistically as possible a party finds the keys and unlocks it without setting up a minefield. Basically..................MANO a MANO. A truly fantastic battle where nobodys buffed PRIOR to the battle, except for a couple of minions and some spell sequencers. When the guardians appear a huge BATTLE ROYALE!! Maybe I should go on and do some of the main plot to level up and get more cool items, I havent really stepped outside of Saradush. Maybe I'm losing it...................maybe it's not possible?

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 2:33 pm

Well, I've done it without the traps, but role-playing-wise, come on, once your party has gotten this far, they're going to know they'd better buff before turning the key.

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 3:24 pm

@ fishhead

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Mano a mano? with no traps and no monster summoning? I was chewed and spit out for about four times, losing one member after another. Oh, yes. Loading saved games one after another and watching my party members dying or turn against me should had been fun, and I'm really surprised I didn't enjoy it.

Seriously now, and speaking for myself: I don't think I could have done it if it weren't for some traps where Succubus and Marillith appear. The first is a very dangerous woman using her charm spells, and Marillith is very effective in poisoning your party again and again. Don't worry. The rest of the "reception group" are equally dangerous, they won't let you down.

You can also set your party near the exit and if things go awfully bad for you, you can always go out, cast some healing, having even some rest so as your mages and cleric get their spells anew.

Cheers

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 6:13 pm

If you kill the Marilith fast , you win the battle .Antidotes are a must . Cast breach on her,this will bring down down the protections . Order your Paladin (wielding Carsomry i hope) to kill the Succubus . Couple of summons may be helpful to keep the drow and the archer busy .(you may cast Dragon's Breath to take them out of the battle area)
Beware of the Hive Mother when she is near death . She will probably would like to take you with her . Contingies are very helpful if you use a decent combo . I prefer greater malison and double horrid wilting . If you feel like losing and your Sorcerers wisdom is high , cast Wish and select "double time stop and improved alacrity on the caster" . That one always saves the day .

Franke · Post by **Franke** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:53 pm

I dunno if it's cheesy to give minsc the boots of speed, ring of gaxx, ring of free acrion, helm of charm protection and the cloak of mirroring and let him run a couple (50 or so) laps around the enemy while the rest of the party kicks ass with ranged weapon. If not, then this ficght is a piece of cake, minsc should be able to avoid about everything, and if not, he always has a couple of potions of superior healing to make up for it.

This is how I usually equip Minsc since he's my tank, and of course he is dualwielding the Crom Faeyr and the Runehammer +5, he pretty much handles all situations, either by running around or by kicking butt himself.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 2:31 am

2 ways////try having sorc use project image to set about 30 or so dealy action fireballs or skulls around the seal.

or if you really like to go mano a mano, use greater acuity to cast about 5 inc clouds, after buffing up key turner with prot form elemnets and prot from energy...this will make them immune to fire. they will fry for a while, and if you do not use web to hold them, tehy will boil out, seriously weak and really pissed...

Black Abishai · Post by **Black Abishai** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:52 am

Dunno why most people think this battle is so damn hard.. I went there immediately when I started ToB and owned that last battle before Demogorg without traps nor spells nor tactics nor quickloads nor ranged weapons.. whoop whoop..

Though maybe I just was so damn lucky.. Or maybe that smite/critical strike is too powerful, it helped me too much during the game, shouldn't have used it at all..
Oh well kinda offtopic.

Mirakai Starnight · Post by **Mirakai Starnight** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 8:10 am

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well the way i beat them was kinda underhanded, i didn't use much in the way of buffs, just protection from evil 10' and remove fear. Died about ten times, but then i had an idea. You probably can't do this though, YET. I equipped every character i could with vorpal weapons, Keldorn with the ravager, minsc the axe of the unyielding, sarevok the silver sword, and my paladin had purifier plus five and the amulet of power, plus the shield of the order. Have them face off one on one. The succubus needs to be faced by someone immune to level drain, the hivemother by someone with good saving throws, the archer especially needs someone in her face, the cleric needs someone with some elemental damage on their weapons, leave the marileth alone for now, or breach her with the mage. the other fighter is insane so try to slow her with the flail of ages or something. In the end four vorpal strikes on the archer, hivemother, fighter, and cleric saved my can from certain death.

Pregethwr · Post by **Pregethwr** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:39 am

@fishead

I agree about the cheesy tactics but since you have already openned two locks and had fights some minimal buffing before the third lock would only be reasonable.

I didn't have many problems with this fight (apart from being chewed up and spat out unceremoniously the first try) but then I did it just prior to going to see Balthazaar.

Your party however should be able to do it. Prior to turning the lock chaotic command your fighters, summon some decent pets (mord swords and deva from your party), pity you don't have Jahera since the elemental prince is a big help.

Keep your two spellcasters back. When you turn the lock begin casting timestopx2 (none of them are immune to it) - if you have the robe of vecna one will go much quicker. Pile in the horrid wiltings, greater mailsions and dragons breath in the timestops. Send your warriors against the succubus (by far the most dangerous, along witht the hive mother - imprisonment aaargh) - or get Saverok to backstab her (dead succubus). The archer, cleric and kensai are annoying but have no instant kills concentrate on the others.

If you can ethically stomach it chain contingency will win you just about any fight in the game.

If it doesn't work just go wander round TOB for a while and come back and stomp them later.

By the way in a battle like this losing two or three party members is not too bad - what do you think mass ressurection is for?

Lelio · Post by **Lelio** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:11 am

This battle is not as hard as you lot are making out, or at least i did not find it so. If you place your party around the portal to the outside, then trip the switch to summon all these beasties then you are in a better position to get them.

What to do:

Send in your best fighter, Sheild of Reflection, Boots of Speed to batter the hive mother, making sure that tou have solidly whipped her of her protections by using your mages. This should take her out real quick.

Meanwhile, your other two tanks (i had Minsc and Keldorn here) both armed with +5 weapons and better take on the Marlith (she is called Y'tossi) with such weapons and removals of any protections she has she should go down.

Again meanwhile your other three party members, i had Imoen, Edwin and Vicona, get busy casting remove protection magics, and summoning Mordenkens Swords (these guys are +5 so can damage anything here) and send them off to either help against Y'tossi or delay the Succabus from doing anything drastic. mak sure the area of the Drow, Kensai and the Huntress is swamped by all the nasty gases you can summon, and you can add some Dragons Breath's and Comets for good luck.

With Y'tossi down turn everyones attention to the Succabus, use Keldorns Dispel Magic and other methods to get rid of her protections and keep you cleric in reserve to cast Restoration when needed. With her protections gone, and your guys just hacking at her she should fall. (I am assuming that your best fighter is still beating up the Hive Mother, she takes ages to die).

At this point Y'tossi, the Succabus and the Hive Mother should be dead. The Kensai women will be around our fighters doing a bit of damage here and there, turn you attention on her next. She will fall very quickly. Meanwhile send your best fighter across to stop the Huntress making horrid called shots at your mages, and force her into combat. Then again use Keldorns Dispel magic to take away the Drow's Blade Barrier, then hack her down. The Huntress should fall soon after.

I managed to do this the second time like this, i am a roleplayer so like to add as much 'reality' to each battle as i can. This was mano o mano, and i kicked ass.

fishhead · Post by **fishhead** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:05 am

Those were excellent responses the reason why I enjoy this forum soo much. I finally finished them off and without too much cheese. With @Pregethwr's topic regarding roleplaying it is true I did open two keys and realistically a battlehardened party would lay down some traps knowing that the keys unleash hostile enemies. I lay only a few traps 2 around the succubus, because she did cause the most problems with me. One planetar and a couple of elementals summoned by the archer, kensai and cleric, kept those three busy. While most if not all attacked the marileth and the hive mother. The succubus died from the trap damage and amazingly enough my sorcerer systematically mazed the 3 fighter types(although I do recall the maze failing on the archer for some reason) after spellstriking the Ytossi. It was quite funny I decided to change my script from wizardaggressive to wizarddisabler and he started mazing everything insight. This allowed me to basically kill most of the party one at a time. Only one casualty and funny thing is it was none other than Sarevok.

Cheers and thanks again for the tips.
fishhead

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:16 pm

super dooper cheese tactic...use project image to summon about 4 planetars and have jahiera cast natures beauty. I run 3 mages and one sorc, so everybody unleased a chain abudahzim volley, did wonders for party survivability.

4 planetars will also do a really good job on demogorgy too...

man multiple planetars are awesome!! incredible survivability and while I find singles are too prone to be over whelmed and surrounded, the globe of blades on a single palnetar is not always effective. you seriously need to buff the planetar with free action and bless and chant for a single to last enough to be effective.