The Monk is a lousy char

Dark Rook · Post by **Dark Rook** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:57 pm

I have played the monk twice, and though he has some good abilities, I feel that it is the lazy man`s powerful char.

His only saving grace (in my opinion) is quivering Palm

why such a controversial post you may ask?

1/ he gets an extra 1/2 unarmed attack every 3 levels...so what!!, a normal fighter can get 7 attacks per round with improved haste

2/ magic resistance...yet again, so what!!!..any thief with the use any item ability can equip items that give him full magic immunity (2 rings of gaxx, flesh armour, carsomyr, amulet of seladarine)

3/ immune to poison and desease...poison can be neutralised with a potion, and disease can be cured via a 3rd level cleric spell

4/cannot be slowed...he cannot be hasted either

5/ AC increases through levels....armour gets better as you play the game..and they have special equipped abilities.

6/ stunning blow...the high level warrior ability is exactly the same but lasts a round longfer and is saved at -4

7/his fists become magical weapons, all the way up to lvl 4...first off he's screwed when fighting against baddies with magical weapon protection or magic golems (he has to equip a crappy weapon and get 1 attack per round), secondly, though he can use a limited arsenal of weapons, he is nowhere near as good with them as other chars. whats the point of plundering dangerous dungeons etc.. if the protagonist doesn`t benefit from the spoils.

8/ his walking speed gets faster as he levels..well this can make him a liability anyway and he cannot get any faster than a hasted char.

All in all..his abilities can be synthesised by many other classes that have their own abilities

Perhaps many of you think I`m wrong.. I welcome your arguments

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:17 pm

So you wanna pick a fight with the GB posters? feel free. Monks are among the best class because they need NOTHING to be awesome fighters. No character can handle every class, so your argument that it is weak in someareas is completely true, BUT the monk can become prof in longswords and the like, so I kept one High level one and one normal, so I could beat ppl down who had protections. But from a roleplaying stance, you shouldnt really carry anything with you, no rings, no jewelery, nothing beyond some basic weapons and maybe a cloak.
Plus his Magic resistance is insanely high for a standard class. Though the monk does lose some of his advantages in the transfer from pnp DnD to BG

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:17 pm

1&2: fighter can get the 7 attacks yes, but he won't get the use any ability(only the thief does or fig/thief, two classes are required to get where monks get by themselves) the magic resistance of the monk is easily over 100 if you have tob or have removed the exp cap no need to put every mag res. item on your protagonist, spread the wealth and get more ppl protected.

3. just a plus side you don't have to worry him getting poisoned etc.

4.the haste is a drawback but on the otherside the cannot be slowed helps, plus when he's 20+ he'd be overkill if hasted.

5. again, you don't need to use the best armour on your pc, you can put it on someone else, the monk needs only couple prot. items to get -10

6.it might be useful i hardly ever used it, monks can't be best at everything

*SPOILER*

7. you get kicka$$ gloves from the sahuagin city (+4 dam/hit) all you need, though i'm not sure how far the monks fist improve, but there's not many creatures that need +4 or higher(kangaxx)

8. obviously you haven't played a monk too far... the monk i had (about level 25+) basically teleports to places, he outruns everything, a guy with boots of speed and haste can't keep up with him)

overall, yes his abilities can be overcome by ->MANY<- other classes but why bother when you can have them all in one

just my two cents

Dark Rook · Post by **Dark Rook** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:11 pm

like I said..*he is the lazy man's powerful char*...

My current char as with a few different ones; can synthesise almost all of the monks abilities and can do SO much more..(I took my monk to lvl 29 and my hasted party DID keep up with him)
My apologies for no.3 it should have been dual classed fighter thief with the use any item ability

A nice argument about magic resistance, but I will agree with you only to a point... Being a stealthy player, my style of play is one(my argument falters here slightly because it is based only on my playing style) where I like to keep my lesser chars safe. I let the troops see battle only when the mages, beholders etc.. have been neutralised (or when I haven`t got a choice cos I`m ambushed) no good having one guy immune to magic only to watch his friends die. once he has taken these baddies out my other chars are welcome to these items if they would benefit from them.

the other 5 chars are used when I *need* them.. it is my main char that does most of the fighting.

I have read many posts that say AC isn`t much help against tougher opponents and from experience I tend to agree

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:40 pm

I've never played a monk be it PnP or BG but almost everything else be it PnP or BG. My conclusion is that there is no best or worst class. The point is not whacking capacity, MR, AC or whatever - the point is the fun that playing this one char generates. I'm maybe biased about which char class feels best (won't tell which in this thread), but in no way about which class is worst. Especially in PnP I've seen people doing almost impossible things with so called "weak" classes - it's all about if you want to play with that class.

Btw, point 3 is redundant if you've got 2 Rings of Gaxx like in point 2.

No offense - only opinion.

Dark Rook · Post by **Dark Rook** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:45 pm

no offence taken..in my defence I didn`t call him a weak class..I called him ( /her!! just in case I get flamed for sexism

) a lousy char. a subtle difference.

I will admit to being a power gamer.. the fun for me is to obliterate enemies that I shouldn`t

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:51 pm

Powergaming of course rocks big time.

But the high art of powergaming is to powergame with a low powered char and that's what I've seen from others and humbly try to achieve myself. Sending a hill giant into oblivion with a third lvl illusionist and the like.

Dark Rook · Post by **Dark Rook** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:11 pm

please take note of the line "obliterate enemies that I shouldn`t"

I like a char that paves the way for ingenuity and tactics that can turn the tables heavily in my favour. The monk (having established other *certain* classes can equal his abilities and surpass them) isn`t that char.

don`t get me wrong though..for the benefit of the uninitiated, the are numerous strategies and tricks that our guileful monk is ammeanable to.

I just don`t like him

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 8:59 pm

I agree with Dark Rook.

I've only played the monk once, as that character doesn't doesn't fit into BG2 in my opinion.
About the magic resistance: all your frontline fighter needs is the cloak or morroring. Or if you're a Paladin, Carsomyr and his low saves is just as good.

Fighting capability: one thing that's a huge drawback for the monk is his low hitpoints. At 40th level - the absolutely max HP he can have is 140 - without items that is.
That's not too impressive as it takes a long time to get to just 20th level alone, and when some of the tougher opponents hit, they hit hard! (dragons, giants, in general foes equiped with a twohander usually have huge strengh)

As the monk is a pure mêleé character, I find this irritating.

-Sylvanerian

samcu · Post by **samcu** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 1:33 am

Nothing more scary than a female monk! (unless it is a drawf)