move silently vs hide in shadows?

Hex92 · Post by **Hex92** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:04 am

I am a little confused with the thieving abilities. We all know the benefits of pick pockets and find traps (and set snares if you are so inclined). But it seems to me that hide in shadows is the only thing taken into consideration when sneaking around.
Does the move silently skill really factor in to the equation? Also, has anyone tried to pump up their detect illusion skills? Do you find it useful?

Hex92

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:16 am

Very good question, indeed. I have never seen the use for Move Silently, neither. Maybe you fail you Hide in Shadows check more often if you move around while having a low Move Silently?

As for the Detect Illussion, I put up a thread for that subject this very day.

nael · Post by **nael** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:31 am

it's been a long time since i played the pencil and paper AD&D, but i think move silently helps you to successfully backstab. but it's been a while, so i could be wrong

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:34 am

I was quite certain you only made a normal to hit roll in order to determine if the backstab is successful.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 11:34 am

I guessed was Move Silently was used instead of Hide in Shadows if you were moving so I've kept them even...but I don't know. Anyone want to check and see what happens with a thief with one maxed and the other at 0 or vice versa?

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 11:37 am

I assumed it was the case that Hide lets you GO stealthy and move lets you STAY stealthy?

Shadowstrider · Post by **Shadowstrider** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 3:17 pm

I believe they are the same, from what analyzing i've done the 2 are divided in half then added together to find your char's stealth %. These were not deep investigations but that is all I have about it.

However you could say this, for Real life terms: hide in shadows gets you hidden, move silently keeps you there...well that is my interpretation anyway..

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[url="http://www.worldzone.net/games/strider"]Strider's Chambers[/url]

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 3:24 pm

Yes, and in stealth mode your thac0 reduces by 4 points so that you can pull of a backstab easier!

bullions27 · Post by **bullions27** » Wed Jan 24, 2001 3:31 pm

Actually I think they've made it into two skill checks rather than one now. You have a HiS check with the initial HiS and then every thereafter if remaining still, then when you move it is then MS skill check. That is AD&D rules if I remember correctly.

samcu · Post by **samcu** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:17 am

My question is that what is used in the game?

Average of the two, higher of the two or like PnP rules?

Anyone with extensive testing will help.

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:25 am

Detect illusion is a definite necessity!!! If you have 100 pts in detect illusions, you can easily remove mages and thieves from the shadows. You'll also find that it removes all illsuions such as mirror image, project image etc etc. Very handy skill to have. You won't need to have your inquisitor cast true sight every 3 seconds with it!

As far as hide in shadows and move silently, yes the others are right. Hide in shadows is called when you want to hide initially, and move silently is called when you have to check if you can stay in the shadows. With 100+ pts in both, you can successfully hide and stay hidden for quite some time. Which is a definite plus for any sneak.

Garcia · Post by **Garcia** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:51 am

It sounds very logic that you first hide in shadows and the move silently to stay that way. what about Minsc and other rangers that only have move silently what use has it then?

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 3:26 am

Hide in Shadows is something really different from Move Silently.
Hide in Shadows: this ability allows the thief to backstab - you must be either invisible or hidden in shadows (and behind the back of the victim) if you want to suceed in backstabbing.
Move Silently: not all houses in the game can be looted freely. In these cases, you must suceed in moving silently if you want to take something there. Otherwise, you summon guards. Examples of such places: the house near the Cromwell house in the Docks (its entrance is reachable by the stairs near the Mae'Var's Guild) or the Morningale House (a part of th Paladin Stronghold - you can enter the house without the quest, too).
Let us summarize:
1. Hide in Shadows - backstabbing.
2. Move Silently - looting houses.

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:08 am

Good points Radek.

Also if you notice...sometimes even though you are hidden..enemies will go into an attack stance when you move. That because they can HEAR you but not see you. Which is where move silently also comes in. if they can hear you...if there are mages there they will start to cast true sight.

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 5:39 am

You are correct Genesis.

I have a related problem that would be solved by hidding-stealing experts. What's the matter:
I tried to improve my thief, so I updated his script in the following way:

IF
not hidden in shadows
THEN
hide
END

IF
see enemy
THEN
attack
END

I expected that the thief hides in shadows, attacks, hides in shadows, etc. This would increase his chance to backstab and decrease his chance to be hit. What happened? The thief was UNABLE to hide in shadows during the whole battle. I'd got a thief that repeatedly (and unsuccefully) tried to hide during the battle and that NEVER attacked (because of trying to hide). The problem wasn't with the terrain: the thief was unable to hide even in half lit dungeons with a plenty of shadows around.
What happened?

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 7:02 am

You cannot hide while in the direct line of sight of an enemy. So I'd guess with the enemy staring right at you thief he kept failing to hide...which slow him down for a round...then since he's not hidden the attack script did not go into effect. So he tries to hide again....but cannot becos "you cannot hide in the presence of enemies!!!"

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 2:20 am

Originally posted by Radek:

I tried to improve my thief, so I updated his script in the following way:

IF
not hidden in shadows
THEN
hide
END

IF
see enemy
THEN
attack
END

I expected that the thief hides in shadows, attacks, hides in shadows, etc. This would increase his chance to backstab and decrease his chance to be hit. What happened? The thief was UNABLE to hide in shadows during the whole battle. I'd got a thief that repeatedly (and unsuccefully) tried to hide during the battle and that NEVER attacked (because of trying to hide). The problem wasn't with the terrain: the thief was unable to hide even in half lit dungeons with a plenty of shadows around.
What happened?

Those and related problems of scripting are discussed in [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bgscripts"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bgscripts[/url]

You have to register to access those, though. In the files section are some script snippets (not complete scripts) that do what you want.
(Sarkyns Scripts)