Have you played an archer?

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:35 pm

The Gesen Bow fires at a fast rate, but its arrows travel slowly. You can overcome this by equipping arrows.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:58 am

Re: Bah!

Originally posted by kopywrite
(obviously IRL this would be untrue).

Exactly! And to me, BG2 is RPG.

Lykwid · Post by **Lykwid** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:06 am

Just want to clear a few things up here . Stone golems CAN be hit by +2 arrows, elementals can be hit by +2 arrows.

Now just a few helpful hints

-Dont forget the efreeti bottle , great summon (i play all archer group so these quick summon items rock), it can be pickpocked btw.

-Dont forget about slings , archers THAC0 is so low that you dont really NEED high + on the weapon , makeing the sling of seeking (adds strength bonus to every hit) a great weapon , with the same fire rate as crossbow. Also you can use a sheild with the sling. Throw a girdle of giant strength on and your doing huge damage.

Overall i find the archer to be extremly powerful , with some of the best weapons available early (tuigen , tasheron , firetooth).

-Lykwid

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:56 am

@Lykwid
My mistake!

Elementals can be hit by +2 arrows.

@Daringcommander:
In game descripition of an ordinary short bow says 5ft. Longbows are usually over 6ft long.

@Astafas:
Not sure what your point is...

Do you mean that just because the mechanics of the game don't allow for differences in weapon range, you should (from a roleplaying POV) use longbows anyway as they offered superior range (IRL) and therefore any half decent bowmen would always avoid shortbows? Well maybe... but does that mean I'm a powergamer because I think that the longbows in the game aren't as good as the short bows?

Well as this is a roleplying game, I gave my new archer grand mastery in crossbows as IRL they were the weapon of the learned members of society and coming from Candlekeep I figured that the crossbow would be fitting. These things are subjective.

Still think shortbows are better though

(Haven't tried firetooth yet, she's still saving up)

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Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 4:48 am

Originally posted by kopywrite
[B@Astafas:
Not sure what your point is... Do you mean that just because the mechanics of the game don't allow for differences in weapon range, you should (from a roleplaying POV) use longbows anyway as they offered superior range (IRL) and therefore any half decent bowmen would always avoid shortbows? Well maybe... but does that mean I'm a powergamer because I think that the longbows in the game aren't as good as the short bows?
[/b]

You got my point quite correctly. Thinking the short bows in BG2 are better than the long bows doesn't make you a powergamer. Using those short bows, for only that reason, does. IMHO of course.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 6:47 am

Originally posted by Astafas
You got my point quite correctly. Thinking the short bows in BG2 are better than the long bows doesn't make you a powergamer. Using those short bows, for only that reason, does. IMHO of course.

Interesting... maybe I've been trying to justify my own subconcious powergaming with some roleplaying reasoning. OK, from a roleplaying POV, longbows make more sense and are more in keeping with the image of the archer/ranger. But from the powergaming side, shortbows are better.

Hmm, maybe I'll stick with darts next time

(wow grandmastery in darts! with darts of stunning and wounding... my crossbow archer's doing really well with bolts of biting; +30(!) damage if save failed... ugh I'm a power gamer. *sigh*)

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:33 am

Originally posted by kopywrite

Interesting... maybe I've been trying to justify my own subconcious powergaming with some roleplaying reasoning. OK, from a roleplaying POV, longbows make more sense and are more in keeping with the image of the archer/ranger. But from the powergaming side, shortbows are better.

Hmm, maybe I'll stick with darts next time (wow grandmastery in darts! with darts of stunning and wounding... my crossbow archer's doing really well with bolts of biting; +30(!) damage if save failed... ugh I'm a power gamer. *sigh*)

Well now, I'm certainly no psychologist (being a lawyer, I'm more versed in the art of turning words around). Anyhow, it's nice to see you on the my side.

Can the Archer really grandmaster in darts? I wasn't aware of that.

Lynariel · Post by **Lynariel** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:38 am

Originally posted by Astafas

Can the Archer really grandmaster in darts? I wasn't aware of that.

You and me both... This puts this in a different light...

Pebz · Post by **Pebz** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:43 am

Originally posted by Astafas
Can the Archer really grandmaster in darts? I wasn't aware of that.

No, the only weapons they can have grand mastery in is Longbows, Shortbows and Crossbows. They can specialize in Darts and Slings, and proficiency with the rest.

mabrook · Post by **mabrook** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:43 am

Actually it seems a bit like "powergaming" if you have an archer with a shortbow instead of a longbow. But this PC-game doesnt give you the freedom of real roleplaying anyway. (I frequently play PnP rolegames, so I have a hint about it).
I think you first have to beat the game with most fun, that's what ist good for, isn't it? So I think everybody has to know for themselves, but I consider it somehow foolish to say (remember in a PC game without a game master): I don't use the better bow, because it doesn't fit with my char.
BTW: your character doesn't show which weapon (long or short bow) he's wearing anyway, right?

And (for role playing matters) you can always have in mind what somebody else said above somewhere: How will you use a long bow in a confusing man to man fight or in a dark narrow dungeon without enough space to even wield a long sword?? Consider this, and its just personal preference (in powergaming view as well as in role playing view).
Personally I will use short bows in the PC game, but surely a long bow in the PnP game.
Well, I must admit, if there were as good long bows as there are short ones, I'd use the long ones of course

So make the best of it.

Suggestion: somebody who has the ability to do so could create a long bow with the cool abilities of the short bows. I think its not really cheating when you consider that there are tons of whopping weapons in swords or axes but not really in bows anyway.

See ya

Mabrook

Pebz · Post by **Pebz** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:48 am

Originally posted by mabrook
Suggestion: somebody who has the ability to do so could create a long bow with the cool abilities of the short bows. I think its not really cheating when you consider that there are tons of whopping weapons in swords or axes but not really in bows anyway.

I can do that. Did you have anything special in mind? (Stats)

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:58 am

A dart grandmaster would have to be a fighter. I'm so tempted to have one next time I play. He would of course have to be called Eric Debristow or something similar and have a very low wisdom (he'd enjoy endulging life's pleasures), a very poor constitution (as a side effect of too much endulgence) and very bad hair.

@Pebz: how about a longbow that doesn't need ammo and hits as +4? 'The longbow of Gesen' maybe...

@Astafas: now i've got to spend the weekend under the shame of being a powergamer. A dark day this has been

(congrats on the 1K post BTW)

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mabrook · Post by **mabrook** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:25 am

first: congratualations astafas for 1000 posts

@pebz: You can handle this item desing thing? Not bad.
Well, I'm not quite sure, because I dont want to change the whole game balance towards archers (or am I?

).
So probably the suggestion from kopywrite isn't that bad:
needs no ammo and hits +4. Since this is possible for a short bow, why shouldnt it be for a long bow too?
I dont know about the fire rate, probably like the gesen bow.

Then (I guess, cause I'm not in making items myself) wee need a story and a name for this marvellous weapon then.

@ everybody: .Has anyone a good idea for a name and history? I will make up my own mind when finished with work here, but I'm not one of those creatives, you know

If you could really do this pebz, then i owe you much respect

and lots of thanxs

Keep it going (maybe this becomes the longest thread ever *lol*

Mabrook

Pebz · Post by **Pebz** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:45 am

Oki, for balancing reasons i suggest that the new bow replaces the Gesen short bow (requires 2 parts, forged by cromwell). Ill try to do some costum pics aswell as edit cromwells dialog.

Now stat and history suggestions would be appreciated

My own suggetions:

Long bow of Speed

- Once per day for 2 rounds: raise number of attacks to 9
- 1 extra attack per round
- Unlimited +3 arrows (hits as +3)
- Speed factor 1

Burning Long bow

- Cast Fireshield (Red) as per the spell (once per day)
- Unlimited Magic fire arrows (1-8 damage, hits as +4)
- Speed factor 4

Long bow of Gesen (as suggested by kopywrite)
- Same as the short bow, but higher damage, slower fire rate

Lykwid · Post by **Lykwid** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 6:55 pm

Isnt it pretty natural to want the best weapon you can get ? Even from a roleplaying standpoint, would you pass up a weapon can do more damage and not require ammo? I personally can not imagine a "real" situation where an archer would turn down an extremely powerful bow , just because its a shortbow. The most common response would probably be to use the shortbow most the time , maybe use the longbow if more range is needed. A bow is a bow afterall.

-Lykwid

mabrook · Post by **mabrook** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:49 pm

suggestions for the bow

@lykwid: good point of view. Didnt condier this so far. But you are right. A real archer would also look for his benefitsand own advantages in this case. Simply because its a hard job to survive as a lonely ranger in the hard world. Thanx for this.

@pebz

Maybe its something like:

"The two Ogre-warriors were running towards her with an incredible pace. Since she was the oldest elven maid still alive after the surprising attack, she knew she had to take care for the children huddling behind her in fear, pressed against the broad stemm of an oak tree. She was still young herself, but well aware she had to be quick to save them all. Acting without thinking she took up her bow and aimed at the rushing ogres. Letting her spirit fly, she could feel a part of her slipping into the hard wood the bow was made of enabling her to fire her arrows inside the warriors as fast as she never would have believed to be possible.
It's said that all of the children survived, but Famione was never to be seen again.
Her bow was found, after the fighting had ceased, in the midst of slain ogre fighters."

Damn, this sounds great

No, but something like this I think. A weapon of this capabilities should get an amazing story, son't you think. If anyone has better ideas, you are appreciated to post them here. Or something for the other weapons too.
Maybe I will think of more tomorrow. But am too tired now.

Mabrook

Musashi Miyamoto · Post by **Musashi Miyamoto** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 10:32 pm

Mabrook: I like that story behide the bow its good

Anyway regarding archers

i love em theyre great, ive soloed a few archers in the past, used them in a party in the past, but this thread gave me a new idea. ive never had ever tried to create a party of more than one archer.

so my newest party is a party of 3 archer that will pick up imoen sometime along the way for some magic power to support them in TOB, esp imp haste.

Archer one:
grandmastery in crossbow
a star in longswords.

archer two:
grandmastery in shortbow
star in war hammer

archer three:
grandmastery in longbow
star in mace

and all three are elvens of course

Lykwid · Post by **Lykwid** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 1:32 am

@Musashi Miyamoto

One thing you might want to consider is that your going to need an awful lot of arrows. Even though you can only put 2 stars in sling, its a good weapon , and the sling of seeking is really good (adds str bonus). Maybe i just hate collecting ammo and makeing room for it in my backpacks, but i planned my archer party so that each one utilized either a weapon with unlimited ammo , or one of the unlimited ammo items(sling stone, bolts, arrows). After much thought i decided on this:

Archer 1 - Elven/crossbows/firetooth
Archer 2 - Elven/Shortbows/tansherons (atm)
Archer 3 - Elven/Sling/Seeking
F/T -Half-orc/Longbows/Strongarm ( i think)

So its kinda an all archer party , the fighter theif should provide the magic i need once he gets UAI ability. And all have endless ammo. Just my two cents

-Lykwid

nael · Post by **nael** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:13 am

for endless ammo, you need to consider not only those weapons that require no ammo, but there is also the never ending quiver and case in TOB to pick up

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:17 am

Originally posted by mabrook
but I consider it somehow foolish to say (remember in a PC game without a game master): I don't use the better bow, because it doesn't fit with my char.

I tend to play that way. When first starting out, at the time when I'm most worried about survival, I'll equip any and everything I can find that'll facilitate that, but once I'm at a point where I can start being more critical of what I have my char equip, I have them equip items that fit who they are, even if they could have better by going with something else. I also pick weapon proficiencies based on the personality and such that I give to my char. To do otherwise, imo, would remove the key ingredient that makes these RPGs.