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The Lord of the Rings...

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Silvanerian
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Post by Silvanerian »

@Wolf: You could add them to your characters manually through SK.
I'd suggest that you create a Cavalier and an Inquisitor - they have: elemental res., res. to hold, fear, charm (incl domination (inquisitor))
Save both right away, and then create the character you really want to play.
Go to SK, and "copy-paste" the resistances you what to have.
If you need something better (like AC-bonus, saves bonus and stuff like that) I'd suggest you open a save game after the Hell-bonusses - they are affects also.
I think that should be enough for your roleplaying son of a god character, without actually taking the fun out of the game.

-Syl.
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Post by Obsidian »

Interesting, I would never have thought of that. Thanks. Though again, I havent taken the time to learn SK. Someday, when my friends are gone, work ends, and school is over, and maybe, when hell freezes over, I'll have enough time to sit down and learn how.
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Post by Mr.Waesel »

first off, why does evryone keep calling Aragorn's sword ALUNDIL ? it's called anduríl, flame of the west.

on to the party stuff:

Aragorn: definetily ranger, he's what the concept is based upon. His sword would probably still be +5. since it even cuts Sauron. His charisma would be 18+, sice he's a natural leader.

Legolas: my favourite. He would be an archer with super_high dex and a longbow wich would count as a composite longbow, and would give an extra attack per round.

Gimli: Berseker for hp and rage, but otherwise just fighter. In the books he does'nt use a shiled, so he would get a "normal" two-handed axe. (qoute gandalf: swords do not matter here any more. run! i.e. the balrog could only be hit by magic weapons, wich Gimli doesn't have.

Frodo: a big sissy, doesn't really do very much in the books, except for part 3. I would ditch him and take Bilbo, make him a thief. sting: magical, so a +2 lshortsword, no more.

Boromir: fighter, with a small shield and a longsword.

The hobbits: armed with +1 shortswords, they would probably be thieves.

"Gandalf was given the elven ring of fire by the elf guy in the Gray Havens. Forgot the name. "

i read this a couple of pages back. The guy's name was Cirdaín.
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Post by Pebz »

Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
first off, why does evryone keep calling Aragorn's sword ALUNDIL ? it's called anduríl, flame of the west.
Actully, its Andúril, not Anduríl.. see the difference? ;)
If you are gonna be so picky about it, i suggest you get it right :p
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Post by Nygma »

Hi everyone, first-time poster here. Just browsing the BG forums and saw this thread, and as a long-time Tolkien fan had to join in.

Went back to the books, and refreshed my memory on Aragorn's blade. (Anyone else wondering when Narsil will be reforged in the movie?) Anyway, the definitive :D descriptive essay on The Sword that was Broken.

Narsil "red and white flame" /Andúril “Flame of the West”

Narsil, later Andúril, was an ancient long sword (Boromir’s sword is called “…a long sword, in fashion like Andúril but of less lineage…”). Elendil brought it with him from the destruction of Númenor. How it came to Elendil, we don’t know, but Aragorn says of it ‘Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil’s sword save Elendil’s heir.’ Telchar was the greatest of the dwarven smiths of Nogrod in the First Age. (The only other weapon mentioned as made by Telchar was Angrist, the knife Beren took from Curufin and used to cut a Silmaril from Melkor’s crown. “…iron it would cleave as if it were green wood.”)

Narsil “shone with the light of the sun and of the moon” (red and white flame), but when Elendil fell, “Narsil was broken and its light extinguished.” Before the Fellowship set out from Rivendell, the blade was reforged by elven smiths and “…on its blade was traced a device of seven stars set between the crescent Moon and the rayed Sun, and about them was written many runes; for Aragon son of Arathorn was going to war upon the marches of Mordor. Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold, and its edge was hard and keen”. After its reforging Aragorn renamed the blade Andúril. The sword is often mention as shining with its own inner light: “…the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out” “Andúril rose and fell, gleaming with white fire.”

When Andúril was wielded by either Elendil or Aragorn it struck fear into the hearts of its foes and filled its allies with hope. Elrond mentions that during the Last Alliance, before the Black Gates of Mordor itself, “…we had the mastery: for the Spear of Gil-galad and the Sword of Elendil, Aiglos and Narsil, none could withstand.” Elsewhere in the Silmarillion and LotR is mentioned “…the sword of Elendil filled Orcs and Men with fear…” “In his hand still Andúril gleamed, and the terror of the sword for a while held back the enemy…” This terror was apparently justified, since Andúril dealt rather harshly with foes, such as the orc-captain who speared Frodo in Moria. “…Andúril came down on his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head.” Also, Isildur claims the Ring declaring "Was it not I that dealt the Enemy his death-blow?" No other weapon in Middle Earth could claim a foe more powerful than Sauron the Maia.

Before they left Lothlórien, Galadriel gave Aragorn a sheath made to fit his sword, telling him ‘the blade that is drawn from this sheath shall not be stained or broken even in defeat.’ (If only Elendil had had this sheath...)

Coming soon... (maybe)... Glamdring, Sting, and the blades of the Barrow-downs...
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Post by Phantom Lord »

Anduril is most likely +5 in AD&D terms (at least vs. evil creatures), the highest possible would be +6 - but that should be reserved for Ringil (Fingon's sword) which caused several wounds to Morgoth or for Grond, Morgoth's club that he used to kill Fingon.

Don't forget that LOTR was there before the AD&D gaming system and some things maybe are impossible to map on the rules.
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Post by Pebz »

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Don't forget that LOTR was there before the AD&D gaming system and some things maybe are impossible to map on the rules.
Impossible..... nothing is impossible. ;)
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Post by Obsidian »

@Nygma Outstanding work my friend, welcome to the GB forums, you are indeed off to a good start! I am especially interested on your take on Glamdring, I see it as a +3 with some neato abilities (+2 elemental damages , fire, ice, etc)


As for Aragorns sword, well, Sorry, I believe it was I who stated the Alundil thing, my bad! I havent read the book in several months. If the game were to be brought into BG, it would have to have a 10ft prot from evil, and +2 to saving throws, and lots more super good stuff. Problem is, its so good it would totally through off the balance of the game, especially run of the mill BG2. Needs a mod!

:(

Special thanks to Nygma for breathing new life into this thread!
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Post by Nygma »

Glamdring “Foe-hammer”

The sword wielded by Gandalf the Grey was once worn by Turgon, King of Gondolin and High King of the Noldor of Middle Earth, one of those most feared and hated by Melkor the Dark Lord. The blade therefore dates back to the First Age, and is many thousand years old. (The War of the Rings takes place about the year 3018 in the Third Age.)

Glamdring was found in the hoard of the trolls, Bert, Tom, and William. (“Two caught their eyes particularly, because of their beautiful scabbards and jeweled hilts. Gandalf and Thorin each took one of these…”), and later identified in Rivendell by Elrond Half-elven, great-grandson of Turgon. “’They are old swords, very old swords of the High Elves of the West, my kin. They were made in Gondolin for the Goblin-wars. They must have come from a dragon’s hoard or goblin plunder, for dragons and goblins destroyed that city many ages ago. This, Thorin, the runes name Orcrist, the Goblin-cleaver in the ancient tongue of Gondolin; it was a famous blade. This, Gandalf, was Glamdring, Foehammer that the king of Gondolin once wore.’”

Gandalf carried the blade ever after, using it first against the Great Goblin of the Misty Mountains after his companions had been captured. “Suddenly a sword flashed in its own light. Bilbo saw it go right through the Great Goblin…” Glamdring was infused with some of the rage and hatred of its makers for the race of orcs, and gleamed with blue light when any were near. “…being the work of Elvish smiths in the Elder Days these swords shone with a cold light, if any Orcs were near at hand.” (Elves especially hated the orcs, since they had been made by Melkor in mockery of elves, and comprised the bulk of armies of the Dark Lord.) The blade seemed almost to rejoice in destroying these foul beings, and could cut through at least orc-wrought iron without difficulty. “He took out his sword again, and again it flashed in the dark by itself. It burned with a rage that made it gleam if goblins were about; now it was bright as blue flame for delight in the killing of the great lord of the cave. It made no trouble whatever of cutting through the goblin-chains and setting all the prisoners free as quickly as possible…”

Because of the sword’s might and legend, the orcs feared it greatly. Even many thousand years after it and its sister-sword Orcrist had been lost, the goblins recognized and despised these blades. When Thorin and company were taken, Orcrist was despoiled and recognized: “The Great Goblin gave a truly awful howl of rage when he looked at it, and all his soldiers gnashed their teeth, clashed their shields, and stamped. They knew the sword at once. It had killed hundreds of goblins in its time, when the fair elves of Gondolin hunted them in the hills or did battle before their walls. They had called it Orcrist, Goblin-cleaver, but the goblins called it simply Biter. They hated it and hated worse any one that carried it.” Glamdring was even more feared than Orcrist, “…The goblins just called it Beater, and hated it worse than Biter if possible.”

The last time Glamdring was mentioned in battle was against the Balrog of Moria. Mighty as that opponent was (only three times in all the books, iirc, is a Balrog defeated: by Gandalf, and by the great elf lords Glorfindel and Ecthelion. All three died with their foes.), even its flaming sword was no match for the elven-blade: “From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming. Glamdring glittered white in answer. There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back and its sword flew up in molten fragments.”

Glamdring survived the fall into the abyss of Moria, but whether Gandalf bore it with him into the West or left it in Middle Earth is unknown.

[The fate of Orcrist:] Glamdring’s mate, Orcrist, was taken from Thorin by the elves of Mirkwood. After the Battle of Five Armies and the death of Thorin, Orcrist was returned to Thorin, guarding his sleep - “Upon his tomb the Elvenking then laid Orcrist…It is said in songs that it gleamed ever in the dark if foes approached, and the fortress of the dwarves could not be taken by surprise.”
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Post by Nygma »

Obsidian, thanks for the welcome. And thanks for the thread! :)

Here's Frodo's "short sword":

Sting

Found by Bilbo Baggins in the trolls’ lair, the dagger he named “Sting” was overshadowed by its famous (and larger) kin, Orcrist and Glamdring, yet the small blade was a potent weapon in its own right. It also was forged in Gondolin in the First Age, and like its larger brethren, Sting flickered with blue light when orcs were about.

A sharp blade, Sting could cut with ease “Then he drew it, and its polished and well-tended blade glittered suddenly, cold and bright…”and he “…thrust it with little effort deep into a wooden beam.” The blade was effective against enemies that many larger weapons were powerless to harm. When the cave troll tried to force its way into the tomb of Balin in Moria, “Boromir leaped forward and hewed at the arm with all his might; but his sword rang, glanced aside, and fell from his shaken hand. The blade was notched.” Frodo then“…stabbed with Sting at the hideous foot. There was a bellow, and the foot jerked back, nearly wrenching Sting from Frodo’s arm. Black drops dripped from the blade and smoked on the floor…”“’One for the Shire!’ cried Aragorn. ‘The hobbit’s bite is deep! You have a good blade, Frodo son of Drogo!’” Boromir was one of the greatest warriors and captains of men of the time, and Frodo was, in BG terms, a first-level fighter at best, but there was no comparison between their blades.

The blade also proved effective against Shelob and her webs. When one of Shelob’s webs blocked their exit, “Three times Sam struck with all his force” with his Barrow-blade, “and at last one single cord of all the countless cords snapped and twisted…” Frodo then tried Sting: “’Let us see what Sting can do. It is an elven-blade. There were webs of horror in the dark ravines of Beleriand where it was forged…’” He “…hewed it with a wide sweeping stroke, drawing the bitter edge swiftly across a ladder of close-strung cords…The blue-gleaming blade shore through them like a scythe through grass…”

Orcs feared it as well. An orc flees in terror when it spies a figure (Sam holding Sting) and sees that “…in one hand it held a sword, the very light of which was a bitter pain…” (Though a good deal of that fear, granted, was caused by the Ring.)

Sting was believed to have been bequeathed to Sam by Frodo before he left for the Havens. It probably now resides in the Michel Delving museum in the Shire.
:p

Next... the knives of the Barrow-downs....... And the +6 fists of Tulkas!!!
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Post by Obsidian »

Crikey Nygma!!! Do you just happen to have the entire collection of LotR on your comp of do you have far to much time!!! WOW. Suffice it to say I am mightily impressed.

So heres how I see it, how would these wpns be relative to BG2. That's kind of the point of this thread, BG2 - LotR for a matter of discussion.

I think you and our dear moderator fable will get along smashingly!
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Post by Nygma »

Way too much time, of course! I have, after all, played the Baldur’s Gate series all the way through! :p

Hmmm. LotR to BG. Tough, very tough.

All I know about AD&D comes from playing BG I & II. (And TOB) So if someone says that in AD&D +5/6 weapons are ridiculous, I’ll bow to superior knowledge.

But relative to BGII/TOB, where there’s, what?, a +5 dagger, +5 darts, +5 slingshot, +5 short sword, +5 long swords, +5 two-handed swords, +5 staff, +5 club, +5 scimitar, +5 bastard swords, +5 long-bow, +5 cross-bow, +5 short bow, +5 flail, and +5 hammers (*whew*), not to mention a couple of +6 weapons, I don’t see how you can’t make Andúril and Glamdring at least +5 if you want them to assume their proper place in the weapons pantheon. [pause for breath]

So here’s my take on the weapons of the Fellowship:

Gimli: two-handed +1 axe. No special abilities, just excellent dwarven craftsmanship.

Boromir: +1 long sword. Nothing but the finest manufacture for the heir of the ruler of Gondor, but there are some foes it wasn’t made to hurt.

Legolas: +1 dagger, +1 short bow, +3 long bow from Galadriel. Son of the king of Mirkwood would have the best available, at least for hunting orcs. Galadriel, mightiest of the Noldor in Middle Earth, will give a better bow when he passes through Lothlorien.

Sam, Merry, Pippen: +2 dagger, +4 to determine whether it can hit denizens of, um, Mordor. Hmm, not too many of those in BG. Well, since it was the Witch-king of Angmar that was its main foe, make it +4 to hit and damage against undead. (It should be able to hit Kangaxx. Is that +4 or +5?)

Frodo: +3 dagger, +5 when determining whether it can hit evil. Sting can injure anything, even if it may not dish out much damage. Allows user to cast Detect Evil 3x a day.

Aragorn: +5 long sword. Needs to have a nice shine to its animation! Allows user to cast Cloak of Fear 2x’s a day, as well as Resist Fear and/or Protection from Evil 10ft. as Obsidian mentioned. Maybe someone could come up with a Party Morale spell – Resist Fear, Protection from Evil 10ft, Chant – 2x a day. Only usable by Elendil’s heirs.

Gandalf: +5 long sword. Allows user to cast Detect Evil 3x’s a day, evil creatures under, I don’t know, 9 hit dice must save vs. spell or flee in terror.

I think these would be fairly close to the book, without being too ridiculous. The only problem is no elemental for trolls. Maybe give +1 fire to Narsil and Glamdring.

For the ridiculous version of Andúril, add the ability to cast Spellstrike and Breach. For the only slightly ridiculous but lots of fun version, give Andúril and Glamdring vorpal abilities.
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Post by Nygma »

Ok, here's my stab at an answer to the original thread. ;)

If you were making a party, what would the characters be?

Choose 6 from the following guesstimated characters:

Some, as has been pointed out, are easy:

Boromir: human fighter, grandmastery in long sword and stars in sword and shield. 18/25, 16, 14, 13, 14, 16

Gimli: dwarven berserker, grandmastery in axe, stars in two-handed style and sword-and-shield. 18/90, 19, 10, 10, 8, 8

Legolas: elven archer, grandmastery in short and long bow, knows his way around with a knife as well. 14, 15, 19, 14, 14, 15

Hobbits: little more difficult, these guys are your proto-typical level-one adventurers. Hobbits don't like adventuring, they like food, drink, song, good cheer... make them low-level halfling bards (can that be edited?), and don't memorize spells (I know, pretty worthless, huh? Can't let them try to identify anything either.) Maybe make Pippin a thief, since he does swipe the palantír from Gandalf. :) 8, 18, 19, 9, 6, 15 (give Frodo 11 intelligence and 13 wisdom)

Alright, now the difficult ones:

Gandalf: Best bet, if you have an editor, is human dual-class kensai-sorceror, otherwise kensai-mage, but never use spells unless you absolutely have too. (e.g. all through BGII :p ) Highmastery in longswords, stars in single weapon style. 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 19 ??

Aragorn: the real toughie. He's a Ranger. Unfortunately, Tolkien's Rangers were better fighters than AD&D rangers. I suppose if rangers were better fighters than fighters, no one would ever be a fighter. He's lived in the wild or fought against the enemy with various armies for about 70 of his nearly 90 years of life. He's stealthy, can track, is a loremaster, can heal even "maladies of the spirit" (lesser restoration?), and can wield a long sword as well as any man. So what you have is a human ranger edited to have grandmastery in long swords, stars in single weapon fighting, with lay on hands, restoration, and tracking special abilities. 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 18

OK, there're my posts for the year!
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Post by Mr.Waesel »

Gimli: two-handed +1 axe. No special abilities, just excellent dwarven craftsmanship.

Boromir: +1 long sword. Nothing but the finest manufacture for the heir of the ruler of Gondor, but there are some foes it wasn’t made to hurt.

Legolas: +1 dagger, +1 short bow, +3 long bow from Galadriel. Son of the king of Mirkwood would have the best available, at least for hunting orcs.
How bout giving legolas arrows of slaying against orcs , trolls etc. (e.g. the troops of morgoth ) And give boromir and gimli fine weapons (like in IWD)?
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Post by Wolf_pd »

Nah, Legolas might have the extra bonus to orcs and that kind of icky stuff, but not arrows of slaying, wouldn't be fun. But Gimli's axe sounds good to me. Just this problem that my 2-handed axe doesn't work properly.
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Post by Wolf_pd »

Nygma, read back to my post about weapon enchantment level. You were talking some sense in enchantment levels, what would you think for armour?
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Post by Obsidian »

Good point Wolf on the armour, but, well, other than Frodos mithril chain, its never really mentioned on anyone else.
As always, Nygma pulls through with a stunning post!!

Well, if someone wants to pull some stuff up or tell me how, I posted my thoughts on the gear on Craig's topic "Craig's store" a while ago, though I didnt understand the potentcy of Glamdring...

And I didnt realize that Aragorn is 90 at that point, I knew he was old, but wasnt sure. Thanks!

So level wise, Gandalf is well, high, 15/20? Something around there.
Aragorn lvl 12-15
Gimli lvl 8-12
Legolas lvl 10-14
Boromir lvl 9-12
hobbits 1-4

I know they may seem low, but a lvl 1 character in the traditional sense would be quite talented, lvl 8 people are definately the heroes of realms.
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Post by Nygma »

Ok, my idea for LotR armor

The only interesting piece of armor in the fellowship is Frodo’s corslet, but if you’re looking for a ridiculous piece of equipment, this is it. It “was close-woven of many rings, as supple almost as linen, cold as ice, and harder than steel. It shone like moonlit silver, and was studded with white gems. With it was a belt of pearl and crystal.” Several times arrows bounce off it, and a spear-thrust that would “skewer a wild boar” just bruises him. Bilbo believes that it will turn even the Morgul blades of the Nazgûl. It is wrought of mithril, that the dwarves can forge “to the power and strength of triple steel.”

Gandalf says of mithril, “Its worth was ten times that of gold, and now it is beyond price… It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel.” According to Gandalf, Frodo’s coat of mail was worth more “than the value of the whole Shire and everything in it.” Though Gimli, when he first sees it, thinks that Gandalf undervalued it.

When the Fellowship heads out, only Gimli and Frodo are wearing armor. Later, Aragorn and Legolas get “shining mail”, helms, and round shields from the Rohirrim. Gimli also took a helm and small shield, but “there was no hauberk in the hoards of Edoras of better make than his short corslet forged beneath the Mountain in the North.” Merry later gets leather armor, helm, and shield from Éowyn, and Pippin gets chain mail of the White Tower Guard.

So say:

Gandalf: nothing

Sam: nothing

Merry: leather armor

Pippin: chain main +1 “…forged of steel, maybe, yet black as jet”

Aragorn, Legolas: chain mail

Gimli: chain mail +2; dwarves have never met their match in the making of armor

Frodo: chain mail +4; 75% resistant slashing/piercing attacks (impenetrable, but the force of the blow will do damage, plus not all the body is protected), very light, sells for several hundred thousand gold :D
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Post by Nygma »

Wolf, went back and re-read your equipment post.

Like the idea of +'s coinciding with quality.


That's kind of how I came up with my armor values:

Chain mail

+0 Normal, competently crafted human mail
+1 Special human mail, quality stuff like for WT Guard
+2 "Modern" dwarven craftsmanship (Gloín tells Frodo that they make good armor, but not like before Smaug came)
+3 Lonely Mountain armor before Smaug
+4 REALLY high quality armor, like if you're working with a fortune in mithril (hmmm... maybe +5? The material alone will give greater benefits, plus its going to be the very highest quality of work that can possibly be done)


By the way, if anyone is planning a party with Merry or Pippin in it, don't forget the Entish draughts... permanent +2 to strength!! :cool:
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Post by Wolf_pd »

Nygma

if I am correct then Chainmail +5 would be an AC of 0? Then the Chainmail +5 would be a good one. About Legolas, wouldn't it be easier for him to wear Leather, possibly Studded leather instead of Chain mail? I don't think he can go through the woods of Mirkwood unnoticed when wearing chainmail. Same would apply for Aragorn I think. By the way, if you looking at the movie, I think Gimli was wearing splint mail there?
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