What improvements would you like to see in any future game?
Re: Re: one more thing about AI
I figured that's why they invented the CRTL+J cheat.Originally posted by kopywrite
true,true... but have you played BG1? IMHO that side of things has been improved so much for BG2; in the original game various characters would stand utterly immobile while another character tried to edge past. It took micro-management to new levels of annoyance (maybe I just didn't have the patience) and is the main reason why I've never gone back to BG1. Which is a shame because I just loved the plot...©
There's nothing a little poison couldn't cure...
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
A couple of things.
First of all. A backstab should be possible with any weapon.
A backstab just represents a strike where the enemy is completely unprepared and has No idea that you are putting that blade in him.
Even with a frigging two-hander. I can just picture my thief sneaking up behind my enemy and making a perfect cleave from neck to groin. And also with blunt weapons, ever heard of a Black Jack?
ALSO, Hide in shadows should be less powerful. I mean, its not like he is magically invisble is it? It could be solved by updating the "hide in shadows" status more often so that you can't just run through a perfectly lit up area without you loosing your hide in shadows status.
First of all. A backstab should be possible with any weapon.
A backstab just represents a strike where the enemy is completely unprepared and has No idea that you are putting that blade in him.
Even with a frigging two-hander. I can just picture my thief sneaking up behind my enemy and making a perfect cleave from neck to groin. And also with blunt weapons, ever heard of a Black Jack?
ALSO, Hide in shadows should be less powerful. I mean, its not like he is magically invisble is it? It could be solved by updating the "hide in shadows" status more often so that you can't just run through a perfectly lit up area without you loosing your hide in shadows status.
-I do not ask for much....
Just worlddomination, chicks and immortality.
Just worlddomination, chicks and immortality.
- AbysmalNature
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I would like it not to be not only centered to good and evil choices, I rather like the neutral character set, only if you choose the choices any neutral character would choose in Hell, you turn evil.
Also I would like more romance options, the female romance is laughably limited, and the male romance also only what three women?
More randomness, the story can get a bit predictable when you play it over again, it would be interesting if no matter how many times you played it over it was still different, so different strategies, and ideas.
Anyway those are just my gripes, otherwise I think that the game is pretty good.
Like there to be more chaos in the game.
Also I would like more romance options, the female romance is laughably limited, and the male romance also only what three women?
More randomness, the story can get a bit predictable when you play it over again, it would be interesting if no matter how many times you played it over it was still different, so different strategies, and ideas.
Anyway those are just my gripes, otherwise I think that the game is pretty good.
Like there to be more chaos in the game.
I care not for endings or beginnings, but for the eternal and infinite spaces of the universe, and for the endless exploration of eternity, and mysteries which I will find plumbing the infinite depths.
"Do not turn inward to find peace and wisdom, turn outward instead to find liberation from the narrow boundaries of self", quote from Gary Paul Nabhan, paraphrased of course
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong" quote from Arthur C. Clarke, thought it was interesting.
Tips on living longer: eat right, exercise, and yes castrate yourself, eunuchs live longer then normal people.
"Do not turn inward to find peace and wisdom, turn outward instead to find liberation from the narrow boundaries of self", quote from Gary Paul Nabhan, paraphrased of course
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong" quote from Arthur C. Clarke, thought it was interesting.
Tips on living longer: eat right, exercise, and yes castrate yourself, eunuchs live longer then normal people.
You can do that, Control script or hotkey(found that in BG1)Originally posted by bob333
Another gripe to add :
Switching from melee weapons to ranged ones on a team wide basis was a pain . Having to go through each person's inventory was laborious and frustrating ( at least for me !). An improvement perhaps ? to have one button which when pressed enabled all ( or specified only ) members to change from melee to range weapons and vice versa immediately.
spoilers below !
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' you must gather your party before..... '
bb - how many times have you heard that before ? That was pretty annoying. You should be allowed to take only one or perhaps more characters into another place without having to drag the whole team with you. This really affected me in two places : when the team was in the underdark and I wanted to take only Anomen - the only guy equipped with cloak of reflection - into the beholders' place - by himself. Unfortunately couldnt do that and my whole team had to face an elder beholder in the first room. needless to say , some npcs died. The other place was with kangaxx - I only wanted to take the guy with protection from magic but the whole team had to come down ! great !
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' you must gather your party before..... '
bb - how many times have you heard that before ? That was pretty annoying. You should be allowed to take only one or perhaps more characters into another place without having to drag the whole team with you. This really affected me in two places : when the team was in the underdark and I wanted to take only Anomen - the only guy equipped with cloak of reflection - into the beholders' place - by himself. Unfortunately couldnt do that and my whole team had to face an elder beholder in the first room. needless to say , some npcs died. The other place was with kangaxx - I only wanted to take the guy with protection from magic but the whole team had to come down ! great !
- fable
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Re: plans
Not really pertinent to the topic. Try posting it under a separate thread--or better yet, just do a search on "BG3." You'll pull up a few dozen answers to your question.Originally posted by schept
Does anyone knows if there are plans to make a second sequal to BG? And does anyone knows when it wil be released? BG2 is more then a year old, so i think it's time for a BG3 dont you think?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
On backstabs n' stuff
First of all, hello. I've been reading these boards for a couple months now, but didn't want to register because these things suck up more of my life than the actual games. This thread though, was simply too interesting to leave alone. Be warned though, my posts are frequently long, so you might want to get some food and maybe use the bathroom first. That said...
A backSTAB in its purest since can only be done with a piercing (AKA stabbing) weapon. I never cared for puritans however, or their silly hats, so I say move away from the word stab. It's a metaphor, much like saying a friend "stabbed you in the back" doesn't mean you should probably go to the hospital (unless you have friends like mine). The truth is, it's called a backstab because backblow sounds stupid and surprise attack doesn't sound as cool, and if you don't believe that coolness is important, then just try explaining to me the need for a smiley wearing sunglasses.
But if we decide that it is in fact talking about a surprise attack when it says backstab, then just about any weapon will do. Slashing weapons work if you think about katana wielding ninjas. That's what the katana is made for. It is a weapon of instant death. Used properly you should be able to unsheath it, kill a man, and resheath it in one move without anyone seeing the blade. Blunt weapons work if you consider the black jack (more on this later). The black jack is the embodiment of everything a backstab stands for, and yet there is no stabbing involved. Even two handed weapons like the quarterstaff work (more on the quarterstaff later), and I hope staff haters get a rare tropical disease (but one of those friendly loving ones). Ever see a man riding on horseback smack into a branch? Same idea. You can pummel somebody in the head with a staff very easily, and it will hurt... a lot... If you don't believe me, go find the video of the kid getting hit in the head with a shovel (you'll thank me later).
Now that I've said all that, I'd like to see backstabs reworked almost completely. Forget the hide in shadows part. It's a means to an end. I think any attack made from behind should be a backstab. If two people are hacking at each other, and you walk up behind one and stab him, it will surprise the hell out of him even in broad daylight, and even if right before you do it you yell "I am about to stab you in the back." He doesn't turn around, it's his fault. You get a penalty for using a ranged weapon up close, so I say you should get a penalty for letting somebody stand behind you with a weapon drawn.
Next, and especially because I want far more frequent backstabs, I want the backstab toned down big time. I grant that the element of surprise increases pain (like when a friend slaps you on the back and you're not expecting it), but honestly... If I stab you in the back, is it really going to hurt 7 times more than if I stab you in the front? What if I stabbed you in the eye? That would hurt! Of all the places I don't want to be stabbed (and there are many places I don't want to be stabbed) I think the eye is easily number one. Maybe as a tradeoff, we make the multiplier 1.5, but give a much better THAC0 bonus for them. And give that bonus only to thieves (they can pinpoint a vulnerable spot easily whereas a fighter would just hack and slash) to give them some sort of advantage in combat.
I fear my post is too long already, so I will end here and write my other two improvements (revolving around black jacks and quarterstaves) some other time... like tomorrow. Oh, and anybody who can correctly name my beholder avatar will be my new best friend, but I doubt anybody here will even recognize it.
Xanth
First of all, hello. I've been reading these boards for a couple months now, but didn't want to register because these things suck up more of my life than the actual games. This thread though, was simply too interesting to leave alone. Be warned though, my posts are frequently long, so you might want to get some food and maybe use the bathroom first. That said...
A backSTAB in its purest since can only be done with a piercing (AKA stabbing) weapon. I never cared for puritans however, or their silly hats, so I say move away from the word stab. It's a metaphor, much like saying a friend "stabbed you in the back" doesn't mean you should probably go to the hospital (unless you have friends like mine). The truth is, it's called a backstab because backblow sounds stupid and surprise attack doesn't sound as cool, and if you don't believe that coolness is important, then just try explaining to me the need for a smiley wearing sunglasses.
But if we decide that it is in fact talking about a surprise attack when it says backstab, then just about any weapon will do. Slashing weapons work if you think about katana wielding ninjas. That's what the katana is made for. It is a weapon of instant death. Used properly you should be able to unsheath it, kill a man, and resheath it in one move without anyone seeing the blade. Blunt weapons work if you consider the black jack (more on this later). The black jack is the embodiment of everything a backstab stands for, and yet there is no stabbing involved. Even two handed weapons like the quarterstaff work (more on the quarterstaff later), and I hope staff haters get a rare tropical disease (but one of those friendly loving ones). Ever see a man riding on horseback smack into a branch? Same idea. You can pummel somebody in the head with a staff very easily, and it will hurt... a lot... If you don't believe me, go find the video of the kid getting hit in the head with a shovel (you'll thank me later).
Now that I've said all that, I'd like to see backstabs reworked almost completely. Forget the hide in shadows part. It's a means to an end. I think any attack made from behind should be a backstab. If two people are hacking at each other, and you walk up behind one and stab him, it will surprise the hell out of him even in broad daylight, and even if right before you do it you yell "I am about to stab you in the back." He doesn't turn around, it's his fault. You get a penalty for using a ranged weapon up close, so I say you should get a penalty for letting somebody stand behind you with a weapon drawn.
Next, and especially because I want far more frequent backstabs, I want the backstab toned down big time. I grant that the element of surprise increases pain (like when a friend slaps you on the back and you're not expecting it), but honestly... If I stab you in the back, is it really going to hurt 7 times more than if I stab you in the front? What if I stabbed you in the eye? That would hurt! Of all the places I don't want to be stabbed (and there are many places I don't want to be stabbed) I think the eye is easily number one. Maybe as a tradeoff, we make the multiplier 1.5, but give a much better THAC0 bonus for them. And give that bonus only to thieves (they can pinpoint a vulnerable spot easily whereas a fighter would just hack and slash) to give them some sort of advantage in combat.
I fear my post is too long already, so I will end here and write my other two improvements (revolving around black jacks and quarterstaves) some other time... like tomorrow. Oh, and anybody who can correctly name my beholder avatar will be my new best friend, but I doubt anybody here will even recognize it.
Xanth
Pressing CRTL+J on the keyboard allows selected party members to "jump" to your current cursor position. I use it in places like Waukeen's Promenade, since I've played this game enough times that watching my party members take the scenic route to Ribald's has gotten seriously old.Originally posted by bob333
out of interest , what is this control + j cheat ? thanks
There's nothing a little poison couldn't cure...
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
I finished the baldurs gate 2 without once using the backstab feature and regarding the large number of posts on bthe issue , I think I missed out . Which brings me onto the next improvement ... the tutorial at the start. it should of course be optional for all those people who are familiar with the game format . but for all those people , like myself , who have never played a rpg previously the tutorial should be more extensive . i discovered a lot of features near the middle of the game.
On the subject of backstab , I always thought that the weapon used should be a dagger or knife and thrusted into the middle of the shoulder blades or perhaps the throat. For instance an assassin imo would never sneak up to his target with a staff or a long sword...he'd use a concealed weapon like a knife .
On the subject of backstab , I always thought that the weapon used should be a dagger or knife and thrusted into the middle of the shoulder blades or perhaps the throat. For instance an assassin imo would never sneak up to his target with a staff or a long sword...he'd use a concealed weapon like a knife .
What I'd like to see in featured games:
1. Feedbacks when using items. This is especially helpful when using keys - it is not always obvious where have you used a key and which one.
2. NPC action status - in the heat of battle you may give your mage an order to cast a spell and before he finishes you may want him to do something else and the spell is wasted.
Knowing what is the NPC currently doing will help planning the battle more carefully.
3. A Bag of Clear Holding. A much smaller bag than the bag of holding (up to 5-10 items) which you can browse through while the game is paused.
4. A real maze where everything looks the same. IE there is no area map and the blackness surrounds you even in places you once were.
5. A spell that will allow to put one spell up to the 6th level in a trigger (I know there is Spell Trigger for that but note it is only one spell, thus should be at a lower spell level).
6. Being able to tell the party where it can or can't walk. Marking square areas should do the job. Have them know when they bump into each other or against a wall (in the first case they shouldn't change course).
7. Large scale battles. That is somewhat a sharp turn from the current method of the game but will take it to new heights. Did you follow the stories of the town crier? Wouldn't you want to participate in these magnificent battles?
No more one man who wants to be a god but two alliances, one is fighting for freedom and the other for wealth and slavery.
This would also mean your main character is not more important than any other member of your party which could prove very interesting. It is also a healthy ground for dark political schemes...
What do you say (especially about 7)?
Bellamar
P.S Are the developers even read this forum or are we writing for fun?
1. Feedbacks when using items. This is especially helpful when using keys - it is not always obvious where have you used a key and which one.
2. NPC action status - in the heat of battle you may give your mage an order to cast a spell and before he finishes you may want him to do something else and the spell is wasted.
Knowing what is the NPC currently doing will help planning the battle more carefully.
3. A Bag of Clear Holding. A much smaller bag than the bag of holding (up to 5-10 items) which you can browse through while the game is paused.
4. A real maze where everything looks the same. IE there is no area map and the blackness surrounds you even in places you once were.
5. A spell that will allow to put one spell up to the 6th level in a trigger (I know there is Spell Trigger for that but note it is only one spell, thus should be at a lower spell level).
6. Being able to tell the party where it can or can't walk. Marking square areas should do the job. Have them know when they bump into each other or against a wall (in the first case they shouldn't change course).
7. Large scale battles. That is somewhat a sharp turn from the current method of the game but will take it to new heights. Did you follow the stories of the town crier? Wouldn't you want to participate in these magnificent battles?
No more one man who wants to be a god but two alliances, one is fighting for freedom and the other for wealth and slavery.
This would also mean your main character is not more important than any other member of your party which could prove very interesting. It is also a healthy ground for dark political schemes...
What do you say (especially about 7)?
Bellamar
P.S Are the developers even read this forum or are we writing for fun?
Implemented in PS:T - one of the toughest areas in the game.Originally posted by Bellamar
4. A real maze where everything looks the same. IE there is no area map and the blackness surrounds you even in places you once were.
There's nothing a little poison couldn't cure...
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
Well here's one to add to the pile.
A LESS OBVIOUS END BOSS
Saverok, Hmm saw him at the start, built up story, met him at the end no suprise
Jon Irenicus, same deal man, you knew when you met him, it was confirmed again and again..Sigh..
But then again I don't want something like from Final Fantasy 9, where the end boss MAKES ABSOLUTLY no sense as it doen't connect to the game IN ANY WAY!
Just a boss that would catch us off guard making us say, well damn didn't see that coming.
Also, better NPC AI, I'd love to have someone like Imoen auto detect traps without having to pick another script for her, have set ways the NPC acts, in certain cases, say a Paladin would rush in to save an ally, even if we didn't set it the pally NPC would do it.. ETC
A LESS OBVIOUS END BOSS
Saverok, Hmm saw him at the start, built up story, met him at the end no suprise
Jon Irenicus, same deal man, you knew when you met him, it was confirmed again and again..Sigh..
But then again I don't want something like from Final Fantasy 9, where the end boss MAKES ABSOLUTLY no sense as it doen't connect to the game IN ANY WAY!
Just a boss that would catch us off guard making us say, well damn didn't see that coming.
Also, better NPC AI, I'd love to have someone like Imoen auto detect traps without having to pick another script for her, have set ways the NPC acts, in certain cases, say a Paladin would rush in to save an ally, even if we didn't set it the pally NPC would do it.. ETC
- Maharlika
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A lot has been said, though one thing struck me --- length of the line of vision, hampered mainly perhaps by the width of the monitor screen. I mean, isn't it odd when the monsters don't see you even if you're a hundred meters away just because of the screen width? Not trying to be a smart@$$ coz for one I wouldn't even know how to go about this.
It would be nice too to see the need to eat, just like the need to rest, with corresponding effects. Whatever happened to standard and iron rations?
With that you could come up too with "magic-like" food like the Elven lembas of Tolkien's world.
Finally, better paper dolls (at the inventory page) and with the items (such as weapons and armor) looking very much like their illustrations (and not just different colors) but then again, would it really be too much for this to ask?
It would be nice too to see the need to eat, just like the need to rest, with corresponding effects. Whatever happened to standard and iron rations?
With that you could come up too with "magic-like" food like the Elven lembas of Tolkien's world.
Finally, better paper dolls (at the inventory page) and with the items (such as weapons and armor) looking very much like their illustrations (and not just different colors) but then again, would it really be too much for this to ask?
"There is no weakness in honest sorrow... only in succumbing to depression over what cannot be changed." --- Alaundo, BG2
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- fable
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This is one of the worst aspects of CRPGs--their obvious, melodramatic villains. Its absence was one of the strong qualities of the original Betrayal at Krondor. The person you thought was the main villian was being manipulated; the real villain had perfectly logical reasons, strong, good ones, for doing what he was doing, and manipulating others. It was a brilliant moment when he was revealed.Originally posted by Cyrus
Well here's one to add to the pile.
A LESS OBVIOUS END BOSS
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
One aspect of this game that I really enjoyed was the puzzle and the moral dilemnabbb that is presented to you on occasion.
Of course , fighting /slashing and sneak backstabs will always play a fundamental role in these types of games but I would like to see more such puzzles and conundrums . And this is the biggest difference between this type of game and perhaps diablo. It makes you think.
The best one imo and the one that had me thinking about most was the one regarding anomen and his little problem. More of these would be very welcome and perhaps the outcome could result in much larger consequences for you and your team. Therefore your decision near the beginning of the game may have a detrimental or advantageous effect for you later on during the game.I believe this plus greater interaction with the npcs would further absorb you into the game.
Of course , fighting /slashing and sneak backstabs will always play a fundamental role in these types of games but I would like to see more such puzzles and conundrums . And this is the biggest difference between this type of game and perhaps diablo. It makes you think.
The best one imo and the one that had me thinking about most was the one regarding anomen and his little problem. More of these would be very welcome and perhaps the outcome could result in much larger consequences for you and your team. Therefore your decision near the beginning of the game may have a detrimental or advantageous effect for you later on during the game.I believe this plus greater interaction with the npcs would further absorb you into the game.
After thinking some time on this I have another large complaint. In the BG series and all other crpgs I've tried you have the feeling that the world does only change as a direct result of your own actions. This takes all life out of the game, and much of the tension disapear aswell.
If the Villains had own minds they would do important stuff and the world would change while you were walking around in some city, fetching spellbooks and solving the personal affairs of strangers.
If the Villains had own minds they would do important stuff and the world would change while you were walking around in some city, fetching spellbooks and solving the personal affairs of strangers.
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun