Deva, Planetar, Solar?

Raidri · Post by **Raidri** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 3:42 pm

One question for all specialists:

Could someone tell me, what's the difference between a solar, a deva and a planetar is?

Thanks

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 4:47 pm

Uhm, hierarchy. They're all lawful good creatures from the higher planes, but Planetar is better tha Deva, Solar is better than Planetar. A Solar is indeed one of the highest ranking creatures in the whole AD&D world. It even outmatches the highest ranking Tanar'ri (Balor) and Baatezu (Pit Fiend) pretty much.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:27 pm

Good to know.
So how does the hierarchy (what an evil word)
work in the demon world?

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:10 am

They start as larvae, which are souls of petitioners that came to lower planes. Then they ascend through least, lesser and greater (and in case of the Tanar'ri true) status.

True Tanar'ri include Balor, Marilith, Nalfeshnee, Vrock, Glabrezu. Greater Baatezu include Pit Fiend, Gelugon, Cornugon. Greater Yugoloth include Ultroloth and Arcanoloth (unfortunately there are no Yuguloths in BG). Of course the above listing is not complete.

TheHalflingBarb · Post by **TheHalflingBarb** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:20 am

scarey

Cybot · Post by **Cybot** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:18 pm

Phantom Lord...you forgot one netherdenizen.

The Nycaloth is also a Greater Yugoloth.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:39 pm

You're correct - as I said, the list wasn't complete. But since I'm at home now and can therefoe do my homework, here we go:

Tanar'ri (CE, Abyss):
True: Balor, Marilith, Glabrezu, Hezrou, Nalfeshnee, Vrock
Guardian: Molydeus
Greater: Babau, Chasme, Goristro, Wastrilith, Nabassu

Baatezu (LE, Baator):
Greater: Pit Fiend, Cornugon, Gelugon, Amnizu

Yugoloths (NE, Gehenna)
Greater: Ultroloth, Arcanoloth, Nycaloth

Gereleths (CE, Carceri)
No categories, three types: Shator, Faratsu, Kelubar

Baernaloths (NE, Gray Waste)
No division of power. Baernaloths equal greater fiends in terms of power.

The basic story behind the fiends (the denizens of the lower planes) goes as follows: In the beginning, the Baernaloths created the Yugoloths (a rogue Baernaloth named Apomps created the Gereleths, but was exiled because the Gereleths turned out to be chaotic). In an attempt to purify the Yugoloth race the first Ultroloth cleansed all Yugoloths of law and chaos using an artifact named the Heart of Darkness. The forces of law and chaos were driven to the Abyss and Baator, creating Tanarr'ri and Baatezu. Only those two races can actually multiply using petitioners. The number of existing Yugoloths stays unchanged and is unknown; the number of the existing Gereleths is always 9,999 (3,333 of each type) and the Baernaloths are nearly extinct.

Tanar'ri and Baatezu fight a quasi-eternal war against each other, called the Blood War. All dimensions of that war are completely beyond mortal comprehension and the price that's at stake is simply to become the superior evil force on the lower planes before dealing with the rest of the multiverse. Fortunately, the end of the war doesn't seem near. The third party worth being mentioned in that war are the Yugoloths who hire themselves out to anyone willing to pay, but there are certain theories that the Yugoloths are playing the Tanar'ri against the Baatezu to be the final winner in the war or at least to keep control of the course of the Blood War.

Cybot · Post by **Cybot** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:00 pm

Note: Carceri is known to beings on the primary planes as Tarterus.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:26 am

Correct again, I forgot the Nabassu and remembered the one from ToSC later. I've edited it into my last post. Carceri is the plane's "real" name, other planes are also known under different names, eg Baator is also referred to as The Nine Hells.

KaesarSosei · Post by **KaesarSosei** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:53 am

Solars

A note on Solars:

In 1st Edition DnD at least (and probably 2nd too, not quite sure about 3rd yet), Solar's are MUCH more powerful than any demon or devil, inckuding Demon Princes such as DemoGorgon and Orcus, and Arch-Devils such as Asmodeus or Mephistopheles. They are 20th Level Fighters, Mages and Clerics, who ALWAYS gain initiative, have a vast assortment of spell-like abilities and wield +5 Vorpal Dancing Swords and a Bow that fires Arrows of Slaying.

Even a Planatar is of similar power to most Demon Lords and Arch Devils, a Deva is much less, but still far more powerful than any Pit Fiend or Balor.

Cybot · Post by **Cybot** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:46 am

Oh no they ain't! No measly deva is a match for a balor....

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 10:59 am

Fiend vs. fiend or fiend vs. celestial battles are difficult to discuss. The Solar is an exception because of it's superior powers (eg innate Wish spell).

All greater fiends can teleport at will and gate in other fiends at will, some even have a 100% chance to do so. Therefore a struggle with a fiend can become a struggle with a fiend army in no time. A greater fiend will usually also command several lesser and least fiends. A Balor usually doesn't walk around alone, waiting for a lone Celestial to come around the next corner.

KaesarSosei · Post by **KaesarSosei** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 11:15 am

Summoning Fiends

Yes I agree that a greater demon can summon in an army in time, but believe me, if ANY creature tries to spend time summoning other creatures while in combat with a Solar, it will quickly become an ex-fiend.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 11:37 am

Almost ANY ... creature. I found this one very fascinating, not only because of it's sheer attack force, it's way to deal with the world around it is especially interesting. One could build a nice campaign around it's evolution and actions. Unfortunately this creature is as invincible as a non-power/proxy/avatar can be and it would be a worthy opponent even for a Solar.

Gihish · Post by **Gihish** » Sat Apr 20, 2002 5:20 pm

one of the things I don't like in SoA and Tob is the Pit Fiend slaying and stuff like that. as I recall from my monsterous compendium there are only 9 (sorry I can't remember now, got a headache) and what do you know you get to slay one of them in WK (he has a name there). now I really don't think that a party of adventurers should hack such monsters. it's always good to have something unreachable if you know what I mean and to think you can do this around the 20th level. not my taste anyway.
a side note: what about the tarraque?