The End - What did you think?

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 2:15 pm

Having played through Baldur's Gate and been terribly disappointed with the end (both fight and sequence) the BG 2 end was brilliant.

In BG 1, you could draw out one guy before even seeing Sarevok, then you could cast Fireball at max range a few hundred times to kill off another mage, then you didn't even have to expose and activate the last mage. Then Sarevok was killed using lots of arrows of detonation and finally some sword thrusts (but he was hard as nails, he STILL managed to down Khalid, and was just starting on Minsc when he died). This was a lot less exciting than my attempt to kill him charging with about 50 Gnolls, all of which were killed with about 4 enemy spells

Actually in BG, the first time I won the last fight, just as Sarevok died, my character was struck down from behind by a Doom Knight. Man did I swear

Once you won though you got a short end sequence, which had several potential meanings, and that was it.

BG2, you got a much better deal. It wasn't too hard to win (but once you know you're at the end, do you want ot be there forever?), but you got lots of heroic sayings thrown in to add to the drama (very sweet), then you had to trade spells, and the only reason it wasn't harder was because of the weak AI (which doesn't understand the concept of magic resistance).

The end sequence though was great. You actually got to see a little of the aftermath, and then the cinematics guys seemed to have a bout of "Look what we can do!" as they got bored with swinging cameras around locations and went for some full body animation. The lip synch was awsome! Though they looked a bit too much like liquid

Anyway, it left it open, it almost screamed sequel (cool) which made me happy.

What did you think?

And why was the "Final save" made BEFORE you got all those great stat bonuses?

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Quitch
"Well since you asked, I would like to register a complaint. I want to kill a dragon. Right now. No, don't look. Go kill one now. Go find one and kill it. Right now. That would be SO cool" - Lilarcor

blade21 · Post by **blade21** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 2:27 pm

A add-on is welcome for bg2 but I think a baldurs gate 3 is out of the question. why? because if you continued with your old character you would be far to powerful, a bit like Planescape torment. If they did make a bg3 then I think it would be better if you had to start a new character, maybe an offspring from your old pc.

I don't know about the final save!

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:14 pm

Far too powerful? Power can only be compared to that around you. After all, when you beat an Ogre Mage in BG, you felt powerful, but in BG2 you could beat one just by looking at it. Does that make you powerful just because one kicked your butt in BG? No, because there are new big baddies out there which can match you.

I don't doubt there's plenty of stuff left that they can come up with to take you down

As for a sequel being out of the question, the end sequence seemed to suggest exactly the opposite. At the very least, they were preparing the ground.

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Quitch
"Well since you asked, I would like to register a complaint. I want to kill a dragon. Right now. No, don't look. Go kill one now. Go find one and kill it. Right now. That would be SO cool" - Lilarcor

[This message has been edited by Quitch (edited 02-25-2001).]

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:39 pm

about blade21's worry for being too powerful, i have to agree on some of the issues, if you're over, let's say lvl 25 mage/sorcerer, you have time stop, horrid wilting etc. a$$ kicking spells, it would be something like, time stop, wilt, wilt, time stop, wilt, wilt...
On the other hand if you compare the power difference with chars from BG and BG2, starting from lvl 1 in BG3 would be devastating, you'd ran towards a bunch of gnolls and before you know it, you're dead...
Though BG2 was way much easier than BG (you actually had to develop a strategies for couple fights) you should be able to use your char from BG2, or a char who's starting lvl would be something like 14?

my two cents

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There's no drow's anywhere near this pla.....

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:41 pm

do you want to kill a dragon just by looking at itin BG3? i wouldn't, so what r they going to have in BG3? alliens?

anyway, BG2 expansion will be released this summer, around june/july, and it's called thorne of Bhaal. and i think that would be the end of this character. BG 3(if there is one) very very very almost likely to be a new character(another offspring of Bhaal or our character in BG2 or Imeon?)

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:44 pm

ok lets think it this way, do you guys wnt a dragon to be your first enemy in BG3? probably not

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:47 pm

If he fight a lot of medium class monsters, there will be a chalange, besides there is no reason that BG III is going to be "a la diablo", neiter BG I or BG II was like that, it just need a good story and lots of places to see, people to talk and monters to defeat.
Besides, the XP that we get on killing a wolf is almost nothing to get the next level, hight levels need a lot of XP.
A level 24 cleric needs 3600000 XP points, a level 23 cleric needs 3375000 XP points, see the diferences?

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:52 pm

when i finished the game i was lvl22 paladin, minsc was lvl22as well, anemon was lvl23, we can toture a dragon if i like, but want's the point? just too powerful, just imprison everyone i see in BG3 then what's the challenge?

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:03 pm

Well, Imprison spells dont let you have any loot, besides try the twisted rune at high level, go in there and fight then ALL at the same time.
And there a limit of how many lv9 spells one can cast, run out of spells and you are a easy target.
Besides you cheat the game, you remove the XP cap that is there for balance, try a dracolich of high level and see for yourself a very fast way to die....

[This message has been edited by Drakron Du´Dark (edited 02-25-2001).]

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:12 pm

i killed absoultely every evil thing in BG2, the lich only took one hit from aerie, ( i was using mace of disruption+2, didn't cheat) did the runequest as you have said, take them all in one time, the beholder sucks cos i have cloak of mirroring, it die easily with it, didn't need to restart it, dragons are pathetic, easy things, i was so delighted where some random enemies foolnessly found me, so that i could toture them, just went to everywhere to fins something to kill. a bit disappointed forgot going back to drow city to kill them all

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:19 pm

Try a real Dragon with all those AD&D rules on, you would not win at that level, it "easier" in the game because if they were not, none could win against one.
Besides, you have remove the XP cap that is there for balance, I could go alone at level 1000 againt a dragon and win as well.
By removing the cap, you make things a lot easier, so the chalange is lost, that is why there is a XP cap and easier dragons in the game.

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:26 pm

that's was my final stats, not the one i killed the dragons., killed the shadown one still in CH2, probably lvl12 i think, and the red one at lvl16 something like that, and the black one at lvl18, just above the final ex of the paladin, beside i only above the ex cap for about 0.5 m ex. won't be a lot of difference, and i was using mages like aerie and imeon only they were lvl 16 and 15, cos aerie level up so slowly(she is mult-class) and imeon started from CH4, jaheria is a druid and mult-class as well, only lvl14 (druid) and i thinklv15 for fighter, thus my party is not that good in magic. and still beat a lot of monsters

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:34 pm

Two things.
The Shadow one is not very hard to beat, the red one is somewhat easy if you use the right spells on him.
Second, Dragons are not usuing in the game all the powers that they have, the tail slash is one thing that Dragons do and in the game they dont, they are easier because they are very powerful and would never give us a change to beat, so they were made easier to fight with.

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:53 pm

anyway, no matter how hard the dragon would be, bioware has to do something with the stupid AI, even the dragon isvery hard, still can kill it with chessy method--cloudkill, so a better AI is needed, although i didn't kill them with it, cos is pathetic.

and we should go back to the topic, a lot of ppl already said BG3 is very unlikely to be released, due to the storyline or the D&D rights etc. and hopefully there would a good ending of Torne of Bhaal.

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 5:02 pm

Two things Interplay (or Black isle or Bioware, I dont know who have the license) can make AD&D games until 2005, there are still 4 years to go.
Also BG II leave things without anwers, besides the idea of the story of BG III is with the character ofspring is unlikely, I dont see WOSC letting people wrighting events that will take place in 18 years, eventhing on the game had to pass by WOSC, WOCS is still wrighting the events of 1370.

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Sun Feb 25, 2001 5:13 pm

a story with no question is not good story, of course a lot of questions is not good. questions are there for us to think, instead just play through the story and foret it. whether there would be a BG3 or not, we probably will know after we see the ending of Torne of Bhaal. personall i don't like the offspring idea as well, it sucks, and it'll potentially give unlimited games for the series, i hate that.

Tain · Post by **Tain** » Mon Feb 26, 2001 12:20 am

I don't like the fact that the game makes the dragons too easy to kill.

The problem is that BG2 is TOO HIGH-LEVEL in everything. I understand it's a computer game and fun is everything, but still. In my D&D adventures, getting a +3 whatever is already incredible!

Too many high-level items and spells for instance, +4 and +5 stuff and loaded with magic laying around everywhere. That's why some of you are not impressed with the power of a dragon.

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Mon Feb 26, 2001 12:56 am

BG2 doesn't necessarily follow standard AD&D rules. Dragons, for instance, were drastically toned down in the game. Other creatures, such as Balors, and greater mummies, are much more powerful than would normally be in the PnP game. They also have some spells that are way out there. Chain contingency, spell trigger, spell trap? Must be encyclopedia magica, cause I've never heard of 'em. The balance is there, but it still seems overdone at times; they're trying too hard to establish an epic sweep, a power-rush, and at the same time not make it too easy.

Regardless, I see the stumbling block that the game developers will ultimately run into if they try to continue with the same PC in a BG2 expansion or sequel. While it's true that there are a few monsters that could still a challenge a 20th level party, there aren't enough to fill an entire game. And as far as magic and items go, what more could they possibly throw at us to keep things exciting? Will every party member need to be dressed from head to toe with priceless artifacts? I really can't envision it. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Mon Feb 26, 2001 1:16 am

When you get too powerful, things get boring. I wish they would (heaven forbid

) make it harder to advance in levels and extend the life of the game. Imagine taking 250 RT hours just to get to level 12. That, to me, coming from old school PnP D&D, is still incredibly fast, but that would be awesome. Near the end of the game, playing a monk, the game was very boring. I beat the entire drow city practically with my PC. Where is the challenge in that? With more hi-level adventuring, I'm afraid most of it would be similar to that, with a only few challenging creatures to battle, as TheHellion pointed out. I wish the D&D rules could be used for dragons, but then they'd be too hard and nobody would have fun beating them.

As far as the end of BG2, I didn't like the entire hell sequence. I just found it boring, and I didn't much care for the final encounter, though I loved all the comments from the NPCs. Nice touch.

Rasputin · Post by **Rasputin** » Mon Feb 26, 2001 1:19 am

Perhaps BG3 could be like Fallout2. The main character is the grandchild of the hero of the earlier adventures, and hence starts out as a beginner. This would enable a story thread to be maintained without escalating the power of the characters too high.