Pen and Paper RPG dying??

Azhazel · Post by **Azhazel** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:18 pm

I am a player of 15 years of mastering cool sessions in PnP RPG

And i am worried about the futur of this type of play.
Yesterday i talk with a group of high school student about PnP games (They are fan of BG/IWD on computer) and the younger said : " You meen by PnP throwing dices with budies around a table and scrath the stats of my chararacter on a piece of paper ? What ? Are you crazy ? I prefer my screen where i can "realy" see the dragon !"

What do you think ?? PnP will die or it IS dead?

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:33 pm

Well, first off, I think this thread is more suited to the DnD thread, but I'll let it stay, as DnD is RPG gaming.

Second, I think it is dying. Every since the advent of technology, everything classic or "old school" is slowly dissappearing. Though it still has a large following, it becomes smaller and smaller with each jump in technology and computers. Eventually, the imagination of most youths will dissappear, and computer games, television and visual things will reign over the more imagination based games.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:47 pm

Totally agree with Aegis. The same thing that's happening to Pen and Paper is happening to MUDs, or any other text-based games. I still like MUDs, it's just that sometimes I would really prefer to see things, and not have to read fifty lines of text. I guess sometimes people are just too lazy to think for themselves when a computer can tell them what a dragon looks like.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:48 pm

Agreement with @Aegis. There is no more spectacular effect than a bit of well-written text in a good MUD-like multiplayer, but the wow effect of a faceful of pink pixels wins out for most people everytime.

Azhazel · Post by **Azhazel** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:24 pm

OK the PnP is dying.

But do you still play PnP or you are not interested?

Am i the last men standing?

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:42 pm

Well, there are some stories going on on this site, but there are no dices of course. But you still controle your own character.

Mysteria · Post by **Mysteria** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 6:27 am

hope it isn't dying too soon ...

... or I'll never get to really play it.

I've just recently started to play PnP, it was the BG series that first got me interested in it.

I think it's just GREAT fun

Only problem is to find the time to play

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:44 am

Originally posted by Azhazel
OK the PnP is dying.

But do you still play PnP or you are not interested?

Am i the last men standing?

We have no idea if PnP is dying, or not. Why draw such a conclusion, unless you have some evidence to back the statement up?

Azhazel · Post by **Azhazel** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:01 pm

it is not my conclusion

i ask this question and it is the conclusion of at least
60%.
So i took this result and i made this conclusion...
But if you said that the PnP is not dying (and i hope so!)
then the result is 59% of people think IS dying

and i don't want that because i am a PnP addic!

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:52 pm

Originally posted by Azhazel
it is not my conclusion

i ask this question and it is the conclusion of at least
60%.
So i took this result and i made this conclusion...
But if you said that the PnP is not dying (and i hope so!)
then the result is 59% of people think IS dying

So if I make the difference of 1%, you're saying that you've sampled 100 people? Were they gamers, PnP gamers, or average people off the street? And how did you arrive at your sample?

Azhazel · Post by **Azhazel** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:37 pm

I don't remember if it was 100 people.

I ask this question on chat site of computer gaming, to the PnP gamers who i play with(and they are many about 20), to student in my school, a friends of mine ask this question in his university,
to member of PnP rpg games club, and finally to members of my family who know what is PnP games.

Maybe you will said that portion of people are not representative.
And after more thinking...maybe i'm wrong. And if i'm wrong, i will be the first to admit it.

So, if someone can found evidences i will be very happy because
i want to be wrong.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:20 pm

It isn't up to me to prove you wrong; it's up to you to prove you're right. All I can suggest is that if you really want to get some useful information about changes in popularity of PnP, it might be wiser to speak to the head of a large PnP gaming company, and see how they're sales have been doing over the last decade. Because you see, you're not really determining whether PnP is dying. You're measuring *opinions* about that.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:16 pm

I definitely think that Pen and Paper is dying. The problem with PnP and also with MUD is this: They enjoyed their haydays before or at the beginnings of computer technology. After computer technology became more advanced, people were moving away from something that is not technologically advanced. Then what is left is the hard-core fans, and slowly the people that are behind the games began to cater their products toward these hard-core but ever-diminishing fan community. Without appeal to the next generation of gamers who grew up with fancy tech and 3D stuff, these old school games die out.

Azhazel · Post by **Azhazel** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 8:57 am

Well fable you are right

I will question TSR and white wolfe and if they answer me i will post this answer

humanflyz ; maybe you are right to but like fable said, it is an opinion

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:26 pm

Originally posted by Azhazel
Well fable you are right

I will question TSR and white wolfe and if they answer me i will post this answer

humanflyz ; maybe you are right to but like fable said, it is an opinion

I hope you do get an answer, as this is something that has plagued my mind for several years now.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:39 pm

I dont know if PnP is dying or not, but I havnt seen anything that suggest it is. Infact I seem to encounter more PnP players nowdays then i did 5 years ago.

Also, If PnP going to die due to advance in computer tech, then we first have to see some CRPGs about 100times more advanced then the BG series. True roleplaying (And now im not talking about things like: oh, my caracter is a cynical mage, lets make cynical comments all the time) Is far from being possible in crpgs right now.

And still there are many possibilites when it comes to utilize the suroundings that will be very difficult to implement in a computer game.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 12:00 pm

I think that PnP RPGs are dying for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is computers. I think that poor products in the middle and late 90s lost an entire generation of RPGers to computer games like Diablo and Baldur's Gate. I know a lot of kids who have never heard of rolling dice or keeping stats on a sheet of paper.

However, I do not belive that computers will ever replace PnP gaming. Consider this: every computer RPG is the same the second time you play it through. Even a fantastic game like BG2 has the same basic plot, even if there are some character-specific variables each time you play it. Why do you think there are so many MODs out there?

There is no computer or computer programmer who can bring the imagination of a good GameMaster to a computer game. Even with utilities like the game editor in Neverwinter Nights, computer games will lag behind real GMs and players.

In my opinion, there are a couple of other reasons why RPGs have declined in the last decade.

The first reason is CCGs. With the introduction of Magic: The Gathering in the early 90s, people started to siphon money away from PnP RPGs to CCGs to satisfy their instant gratification power-gaming needs. They took a lot of time, energy and money away from PnP games, and were easier to play than many of the existing games. As a result, PnP games started losing their followers.

The second, and in my opinion more devastating, reason for the decline in PnP RPGs was a marked decline in quality. Part of this is because many of the independent game compaines (FASA, Steve Jackson, White Wolf, West End Games, etc.) went bankrupt or were bought out by the larger companies, most notably Wizards of the Coast. In addition, the mother of all games, AD&D and AD&D2, became a stale product in sore need of originality and rejuvenation. Even with products like Dragonlance and the Forgotten Realms keeping the company semi-alive (with their novels, not RPG modules, no less), TSR folded and was bought out by WOTC.

The largest independent competitor to WOTC, Palladium Games, started the 90s out strong with titles like Robotech, Heroes Unlimited and Rifts, but their products are showing their age and they are floundering themselves.

The release of D&D3 was much-heralded by the PnP RPG community, but I don't see it drawing many folks in. I believe that most people buying D&D3 are people my age or older (mid-20s+), not kids who are my age when I started gaming (early teens). As a result, I believe that the future of PnP RPGs is in doubt. Companies are not going to produce them if no one will buy the products. And that's a shame because my best RPG stories aren't about computer games, they're about me and a bunch of buddies staying up late, eating pizza, drinking Mountain Dew by the gallon and beating the hell out of bad guys.

Azhazel · Post by **Azhazel** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 2:44 pm

WOTC answer

"It's hard to say what direction the market may go. We do not see any loss of interest in Pager based RPG's at this point in time. After all computer basses RPG's can only do so much for the imagination." Bryan Z.

Well i think this is a good news.

What do you think?

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:17 pm

It's all about sales. If WOTC isn't making money on PnP RPGs, they'll stop selling them.

Computer games remove imagination from the process and are easier to play and learn. PC and console game sales are up. PnP RPG sales are down. Do the math.

trnsplnt · Post by **trnsplnt** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:18 am

i dont know of any still active, but alot (myself included) still holding onto those old manuals, modules etc.

I personally loved & still have alot of Twilight 2000 stuff (went bankrupt ), Runequest & a number of other lesser (anyone remember Rus?) games, as well as the obligatory D&D collection.

I don't think they're dead, still to much activity out there & on the web ( e.g. plenty of Runequest sites still active & maintained), but they are definitely on the decline with the easy availability of the PC games, & instant messaging only makes it harder to justify 'getting together' for a game when u can all sit at home & play online.