Bonus Merchant - a cheat?

Bellamar · Post by **Bellamar** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:38 am

It seems having the bonus merchant patch is a common thing among the forum members but isn't it plain cheating?
Where's the challenge if you can have great items the developers of the game didn't approve?

Bellamar

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:42 am

If I recall correctly and I don't often.

The bonus merchants were included as an add-on if you bought the limited edition pack when BG2 was first sold. However since most people didn't buy it till a lot later, I guess some guy got around to releasing a patch including the bonus merchant.

Spirit Crusher · Post by **Spirit Crusher** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:21 am

@Bellamar :
you have a point, my first time through SoA i didn't have the patch installed and those Beholder Dungeons were MUCH harder without the Shield of Balduran (don't remember if i had that reflecting cloak then). After i installed the patch, i just sent one tank with the Shield equipped to finish those beholders : i hardly had to deal a blow, my tank just stood there reflecting those rays 'til the baddies dropped dead.
I wouldn't call it cheating, after all it's an official patch/add-on. I do consider it cheesy though.

By the way, next time they make a limited edition boxset, i would like a t-shirt my size (and no i'm not corpulent, i'm just 6'6")

Demis · Post by **Demis** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:24 am

The two bonus merchants maybe sell some very good weapons but there are not so great considering the vast number good of weapons in the game, anyway is hard to buy them in the beggining. There are just a few weapons from IWD and PT to add to the fun and i think it is not cosidered to be a cheat.

Leonardo · Post by **Leonardo** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:55 am

Altough Shield of Balduran, Robe of Vecna, Sling of Evereard and Vhailor´s Helm are powerful, I wouldn´t mention them among the 4 most powerful itens on the game (IMO Staff of the Magi, Carsomyr, Crom Faeyr, Ring of Gaax). It´s true that you have to fight very powerful foes for these itens, but you are getting a nice load of experience for your efforts, instead of paying a very large sum of GP that is not exactly easy to come up with in the beggining of the game)

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:07 am

I would hardly call the Shield of Balduran cheesy when the enemies you use it against zap you with rays at the rate of 1 per second, nail you with anti-magic rays every one-two rounds which dispel everything and scramble your spell-casting for several rounds, and have a pretty decent melee attack to boot.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:30 am

Originally posted by Bellamar
It seems having the bonus merchant patch is a common thing among the forum members but isn't it plain cheating?
Where's the challenge if you can have great items the developers of the game didn't approve?

But the developers did approve the additions, so the bonus merchants aren't a cheat. That said, they didn't include the merchants in the original game; which leads me to believe they were either suggested by a PR department as a cynical means of getting the more expensive, "deluxe BG2 edition" sold (which was where the bonus merchants originally appeared)--likely a reluctant concession on Bioware's part. This is just speculation, but no development team likes to see a finely tuned product which went through game balancing for months suddenly thrown out of whack by a couple of near-god items.

I would hardly call the Shield of Balduran cheesy when the enemies you use it against zap you with rays at the rate of 1 per second, nail you with anti-magic rays every one-two rounds which dispel everything and scramble your spell-casting for several rounds, and have a pretty decent melee attack to boot.

@Sojourner, it depends on how you think of the game, and how you play it. Most of us (well, you, myself, and some of the other insane obsessives up here) know all the hints and have played repeatedly. We set the difficulty level on insane, or try crazy things like running solo through the game. Does killing the beholders with the aid of the Shield of Balduran really make things impossible, or does it just restore a degree of challenge to the product? I waltzed through the Unseeing Eye's lair with the Shield, and was disappointed with the place. Next run-through, I didn't buy the shield, and had a lot more fun.

EDIT: Make that "without the aid of the Shield of Balduran," above.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:48 am

Re: Re: Bonus Merchant - a cheat?

Originally posted by fable
@Sojourner, it depends on how you think of the game, and how you play it. Most of us (well, you, myself, and some of the other insane obsessives up here) know all the hints and have played repeatedly. We set the difficulty level on insane, or try crazy things like running solo through the game. Does killing the beholders with the aid of the Shield of Balduran really make things impossible, or does it just restore a degree of challenge to the product? I waltzed through the Unseeing Eye's lair with the Shield, and was disappointed with the place. Next run-through, I didn't buy the shield, and had a lot more fun.

IMO, the Shield was created because the developers realised that oops, the beholders were a bit more challenging than they intended for the average newbie user. Yes, you can defeat them without it, but consider, most of the alternate strategies are also referred to as cheesy!

schept · Post by **schept** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:26 am

easy?

am i the only newbe that doesn't find the beholders very hard. I didn't use the cloak or shield, i just kicked their arses. And i think i am also the only one that doesn't find the bonus merchants very usefull. I bought the special sling, but still the real killers are the firkraag sword and dragon's bane.

well i don't know what this adds to the topic, but it's just a thought i had when i read this post.

Timekeeper · Post by **Timekeeper** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:15 am

Are the bonus merchants cheating? Absolutely.

That's because everyone always Pre-Orders the Collector's Edition. (heavy sarcasm intended)

Spirit Crusher · Post by **Spirit Crusher** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:03 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner
I would hardly call the Shield of Balduran cheesy when the enemies you use it against zap you with rays at the rate of 1 per second, nail you with anti-magic rays every one-two rounds which dispel everything and scramble your spell-casting for several rounds, and have a pretty decent melee attack to boot.

True, but i like a tough game

And as fable said, i had much more fun thinking of a good strategy without the Shield. Talking about challenges, one of these days i'll start my first solo game. If i can make up my mind about what class to pick, that is.

Oh yeah, kinda forgot in my first post : hi to all the boys & girls at the GB forums

Been reading this forum for over a month now and it rocks !

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 3:37 pm

The merchants were already in the game....
I agree, the items are powerful, but the cloak of mirroring is the
only unbalancing item.
I had Imoen who was NEVER hurt in any circumstance...
While I was happy for her, the game became quite lame...

The other items have to be in the game IMHO, so every class can get some special, specific items.

Just do without the cloak. As for the beholders, just use Xyx's Smart Beholders! If you have the Hive upgrade, they will be nearly impossible even with the shield of Balduran!
And the whole thing will be more realistic as they will act together
and will be smart.
In the end, you' ll win only with the HELP of the shield.
Quite realistic, as they should be creatures with INT and WIS
over 21 I think, so no one should be able to win without something REALLY special...

Or just take a kensai/mage, ehehe

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:26 pm

I don't consider the merchants cheating. Beholders can drive you insane and the shield helps if you want to use it. Daystar and the Helm of Brilliance have equally devastating effects against undead, Crom gives godlike strength and Carsomyr is terribly powerful in almost every battle. Btw, at higher levels Beholders become quite easy because your chars make almost every save against their spells.

samcu · Post by **samcu** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:29 pm

It can't be construe as cheating, simply because of the fact it was at one stage offered in the marketing campaign. It was advertised with the game and we all know it is overly powerful compared to my buckler. That's where you can choose to have it or not to have it.

In the end the choice is yours, go around naked and only use a dagger on insane, if you find that challenging and fun, go for it. I too had the pleasure of doing the unseeing eye without the knowledge of the bonus merchants, it was near impossible. But thanks to the AI, everything is doable in SOA.

Cheating would be like giving your pc/npc the boots of speed, tings of gaxx, crom faeyrs and 5000 hitpoints each!

Bellamar · Post by **Bellamar** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:17 am

Putting the cheating issue aside, I guess the only loss is challenge. Installing Xyx's better AI as Littiz suggested is a very interesting option though I guess it only counteract the shield item.

(Warning: hints & tips)
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Personally I had much fun figuring out how to kill beholders without the shield: Either being invisible and use Blade Barrier (discovered that tactic almost by accident), or summon elementals for ghasts. The Elder Orb and the Beholder at the entrance of the nest in the underdark were a real challenge: I finally went with the tactic of casting mass invisibility, and preparing to Harm the elder orb while my other two fighters position themselves near the Beholder (time is an important factor as the Elder Orb casts True Sight).

But I have to admit I didn't do the Unseeing Eye quest until the later part of the game (I wanted to save Imoen as quickly as I could and didn't visit the Temple District at all!), so perhaps my view of difficulty is not too fair.

Thrar · Post by **Thrar** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:36 am

beholders work very nice with summoned fire elementals as they r immune to the beholders' spells i think, at least it was pretty easy.

Aubreii · Post by **Aubreii** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:29 am

I have played through a few times now and I don't think the beholders are all that tough.

The first two times I finished the game I never even had the Mirroring cloak and until I read this thread I had never heard of that shield of Balduran.

I finished twice with neither of these items (and my first party sucked though I did not know it at the time).

If I can finish without this stuff then most anyone can. I am not a great player. I just have fun with it.

As for the add on merchant being "cheating" all I can say is that if it is fun for you then do it. Fun is the point of playing the game.

Bellamar · Post by **Bellamar** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:33 am

I may be wrong but I think the Beholder's death spell kills all summoned creatures, including elementals (when I tried there were Elder Orbs too so I'm not absolutely sure).
Thus, elementals are only good to kill ghasts (though if you don't mind loosing some XP, a pit fiend can kick their butt).

Wolf_pd · Post by **Wolf_pd** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:11 am

Never had any problems with fire elementals when beholders were casting death spells. Two possible reasons, one, I was plain lucky, two, deathspell doesn't affect elementals or summoned creatures. Don't know which one applies.

danceinflames · Post by **danceinflames** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 8:47 am

well i played the game (mostly chapter 2 and 3) for nearly 40 times!(i'm not joking)I did this because i couldn't find myself the best char and now i'm playing a chaotic neutral barbarian.(I hope to finish the game now

)In my previous games the only things that were challenging in the game were Kangaxx and the Underdark beholder dungeon.I finished the cult of the eyeless quest by using fire and air elementals not by using the shield.(Because i just got them in my last game,the merchants were not in my previous games)But when it comes to that damn Underdark dungeon i just grabbed the equilizer piece and ran.Hope i can finish it now with the shield.
So my opinion on merchants;
Get the shield and the sling and kill those damn beholders and Kangaxx!!!