ren dragon

tinytim · Post by **tinytim** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 4:29 am

ok whats the best way to kill this dragon he always seems to hand me my aris is there any thing special he gives you
i know its Red

[This message has been edited by tinytim (edited 01-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by tinytim (edited 01-27-2001).]

Autoriot · Post by **Autoriot** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 4:44 am

Don't talk to him and piss him off to fight him..instead get all setup, buff your characters up (protection spells etc...), lay traps (if you have Yoshimo or a Bounty hunter of your own), have a cleric-spell-casting character run up to him and raise his resistance with a spell (which actually lowers it, because the dragon has such high resistance, it brings it down to your characters resistance), and attack him when he is blue (non-agressive)..I had two warriors on opposite sides of him slashing at him, two archers shooting him from as far away as possible. I then used my druid to put locusts on him (makes the dragon miscast his spells) while my mage threw magic missiles at him. He dropped very easy, and this was only my second try at fighting him.

My first time was a disaster because I just picked a fight without getting ready and he used some nice spells to meteor storm all of my chaaracters at once and knock them all away with dragon's breathe.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 4:49 am

At what level are you and are you a Paladin?

------------------
The Defender of Truth

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 4:59 am

Who else is in your party?

tinytim · Post by **tinytim** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:14 pm

i am a 13th level paladin i have minsc,jaheira,valygar,aries,yoshimo

Rodion Raskolnikov · Post by **Rodion Raskolnikov** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:23 pm

Of course you know the easiest way: Cloudkill, cloudkill, cloudkill! Not very challenging but effective indeed.

tinytim · Post by **tinytim** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 4:15 pm

i used the talk and fight combined with lower ristance and breach plus a couple of traps to top it off touck less than five mins dont know why i was so mad "o" maybe i just need to sleep a little.

tigerone · Post by **tigerone** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 9:54 pm

I tend to play with two mages in my party. I also summon monsters to help occupy the dragon's attention. I play a bit fair and let the dragon attack me (or more likely, my pets, and it would be nice to have one or two fire elementals) first by giving fair warning (I get him to attack me first, not "fake talk" whatever that is), then I scramble with my mages to cast at least 3 lower resistances (no time for breach) then every magic missile I have. If I'm at a high level to cast finger of death, I cast two greater malisons and then give him the finger. I try to make sure one or two party members is distracting the dragon to keep the heat off my mages.

This works very well for me, but I need to have lower resistance for it to work. If the only offense I've got is magic missile, they'll need a bit more distraction from the frontline fighter(s). And this strategy is a killer for a sorcerer.

[This message has been edited by tigerone (edited 01-29-2001).]

Antellamon · Post by **Antellamon** » Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:16 pm

I used Aerie and Anomen to cast Holy smite. very good spell IMHO. Then Aerie killed him with a crmatic orb.

------------------
Why Fight when you can run???

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 7:03 am

Another "Fake Talk" which works with Firkraag and the Shadow Dragon. Memorize:
1. 1x Greater Malison.
2. As much Feebleminds as possible.
Save the game. Go to the dragon and cast Greater Malison then try to suceed with Feeblemind. If you fail, restart the game.
Once the dragon gets feebleminded it will not attack at all. It will observe how it is being killed.
How does it work: the dragon does not consider Greater Malison and Feeblemind hostile action for some unknown reason and remains blue while you are casting these spells.
So we have 3 Fake Talks (the pure one, Cloudkill and Feeblemind) and no good strategy. Oh well...

Blobbas · Post by **Blobbas** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 8:13 am

You can just use the "feeblemind" spell. Just fire it upon him, and when you get one to hit, you can attack him, and he won't attack you. (cheating?)

Aegnor · Post by **Aegnor** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 8:13 am

Can't resist posting for this topic. I've managed to slay the red dragon several times, the good old-fashioned hard way. I even talk to Firkraag first, letting him go hostile before I even attack.

First, its important to have the right spells ready. I find the following spells ESSENTIAL for defeating dragons:

haste (whole party)
remove/resist fear/Mazzy's courage
Protection from fire(3rd level mage/cleric)
Lower resistance
breach
as many magic missiles as possible

General strategy:
Caste all prot. spells and group effect spells. Make sure your fighters have at LEAST 100% fire resistance. Iron skins on any fighter/cleric types is a good idea.

Spread out, surround the beast with your bruisers (i.e. best melee fighters). As much as possible, assign one cleric/druid to each fighter.

Attack when ready. Be prepared to do a lot of moving, running, and tag-teaming. If one fighter gets nailed badly, have him(her) run away and distract the dragon with a quick magic missile. Don't forget to use the breach spell early so you don't have to hack through all the stoneskins before doing damage.

This is a very busy strategy, probably close to what the game developers intended. You may lose an NPC or two, and have to reload. You may also have to heal some NPC's mid combat. Just do it AWAY from the dragon. Keep trying, it will work eventually. ANd best of all, you come out of it knowing that you honestly bested him, and your party will KNOW what it really means to face a dragon.

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 8:49 am

@Aegnor:
Sure, it works, but you REALLY have to ressurect 1 or 2 NPCs in most cases and you'll be REALLY forced to reload more often than it is healthy. So, you really will know what it means to face a dragon but you are still unprepared to face it. That's the whole problem with the dragon fighting.

Saumerez · Post by **Saumerez** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 8:55 am

****spoilage****
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.

I killed the shadow dragon and firkraag (that the red one we are talking about?) the old fashioned way too.

The shadow dragon seemed pretty easy. I do use fire elementals. I love them. I think I had a couple monster's summoned also but not sure. I really don't remember my exact tactics other than the summoned critters, and melee types were hacking and slashing and casters/healers were casting/healing. Worked the first time.

I tried Firkraag repeatedly and got spanked. Used a bunch of different tactics and got spanked the same old way.

SO I left him alone and went and gained a level or two. I summoned two fire elementals and 3 Arial Servants and just sent them and my melee types after him. My main is a Skald (level 16 then) so I had him use his song (+4 to hit, +4 Damage, -4 AC and immunity to fear). Firkraag dropped like a rock that time.

Of course I buff the bejeebers out of everyone first too.

renyu · Post by **renyu** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 8:57 am

with 2 mages it gets laughable easy

memorise all magic missles

first u do all the standard stuff like haste and chant etc...

then u summon as many pets as u can

surround him with pets and fighters

start by casting magic resistance and lower resistance and greater malison

then hit him with every magic missle u got

everytime he starts to melee one of u, just start running away

he will get tired of chasing and move on

etc

continue until u run out of magic missles, and finish him off with melf's acid arrows or minute meteours, plus cone of cold!!!

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 9:28 am

I don't get why some people think the feeblemind option is cheating. The whole point of that spell is to do exactly what it does in the dragon scenario. How is that cheating? That's just what the spell does.

Aegnor · Post by **Aegnor** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 1:12 pm

@Radek - actually, the only dragon fight I had to reload more than twice was my very first against the shadow dragon. It took me about a dozen tries to work out the strategy, but I eventually got it down. Next encounter, vs. Firkraag, I dropped him on the first try (must have been a bug) by attacking before he went hostile. It was so easy (he went about 4 rounds of me casting and hacking before he attacked!), I had to reload and try it giving him a fighting chance. Heh! Well, that "chivalrous" approach WAS painful. Aerie was reduced to ash. Tried it one more time, and I think one NPC was killed, but not beyond resurrection.

@renyu: I think your strategy very similar to mine...lots of running around like crazy, right?

And, I don't think that the "feeblemind" option, among others is cheating either. You find a weakness, you exploit it. The one I found just happens to involve lots of casting, runnning, and healing so yeah, its risky, and one bad bit of timming and CHOMP.

So, some complain the dragons are too easy. Some are here 'cause they're very, very hard. I liked 'em: hard as h^ll the first time, still a fight you gotta get ready for next time.

Cygnus · Post by **Cygnus** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 1:33 pm

Here's how I did it. My party was: (all around level 10-12)

Dual class Kensai/Mage (staff spear +2)
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric (Flail of ages, full plate, dragon shield, dragon helm)
Half-orc Fighter/Thief (tuigan bow w/ arrows of piercing, dragonslayer sword, orc leather)
Blade (Dual wield Battle Axe +3 Frostreaver, Battle Axe +2, Bracers AC 3)
Jaheira (Sling +3, bullets +2, Full plate +1, Large shield)

First I casted every spell I had including: haste, defensive harmony, chant, resist fear)

Both the fighter/cleric and kensai/mage (the main character) casted draw upon holy might.

Both spell casters casted ghost armor, stoneskin, blur, mirror image

Jaheira casted iron skin on herself.

Then I surrounded the dragon with my kensai/mage, cleric/fighter, and blade while my figher/thief stood at archer distance and Jaheira casted Insect Plague.

My kensai/mage used kai and my blade used offensive spin.

We killed the dragon with no casualties on the third try.

Hope that helps someone,

Cygnus

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:57 am

The Feeblemind Method isn't cheating - it does not involve any messing with the game. But it is a Fake Talk based on a possible misunderstanding in the game logic. Firkraag and the Shadow Dragon allow you to cast Greater Malison and Feeblemind as many times as you want and they observe pacefuly how they are prepared for a knife. Note: The Feeblemind method does not work with the Black Dragon.

Aegnor · Post by **Aegnor** » Tue Jan 30, 2001 7:11 am

Ah! So sad to hear that the Feeblemind method relies on Fake Talk. I won't go so far as to call fake talk "cheating" (how can you cheat a computer?), but isn't it terribly unsatisfying?

Just a thought - shouldn't dragons (or all intelligent baddies) go hostile as soon as someone starts casting a spell in their presence? The only thing ruder would be to openly flaunt dragon scale armor in front of one.

They should also go hostile if you surround them, which I always do when taking one on.

And dragon lairs should be heavily trapped, no?